Building a new PC

satanicoo · 07-30-2003, 12:21 AM

Hello guys.

I am about to make a small upgrade to my computer.
I want a cpu+MB+memory.
I will go for intel since it is the fastest one.

Im thinking of:
-P4 2.4 C 800mhz;
-gigabyte ga-8knxp
-ddr400 cas 2

and maybe a hdd sata WD raptor 36gb.

Just checking what you think, and if someoe disagrees with the MB, and if so, wich one should i get.

Thanks in advance.

trit187 · 07-30-2003, 12:52 AM

I've heard alot of good things about the asus 800 series mb's
and if you just want a ata133 hd then Western Digital 120GB 8MB Cache HD for $50 after $70 rebates http://slickdeals.net/#p3448

bigben2k · 07-30-2003, 08:48 AM

So you have an SSE2 enabled program that you use a lot?

TerraMex · 07-30-2003, 09:52 AM

I'm willing to bet he's going for "the little P4 that could ... overclock alot".

I've noticed in the past few months that a considerable number of overclockers have changed from AMD to Intel.

As the latter has given a more overclockable stepping, combined with a increase of FSB to 800 , there's been a shift of supporters.

It's not uncommon to see P4 2.4c to go up to 3.1Ghz/3.3Ghz on watercooling (or even good aircooling) .

Interesting to see also that a considerable amout of "shifters" live for 3dmark scores, and live by them. And i know a few that do. I also know a guy who has built a second prometeia for that matter (gpu).

So it's really (for alot of people) about numbers. I regulary see the "How many 3dmarks do you have?" or "How many PC marks" . Phooey. Reducing a complex machine as a computer to a single number is ridiculous, and making it an argument about dick size is even more. Oh well...

Anyway, personally, has i stated before , i consider the money difference, a waste. Unless you're a Intel fan.

However, as P4 goes, I've heard alot of good about the P4C800 from Asus . It seems to be the OC'ers election motherboard to date.

Only had a gigabyte once, with VIA chipset, and it sucked. Ok, mainly because of the chipset , but it never looked particulary good. And as far as control goes, from what i've read, they're not as good as a Abit or Asus.

If you're not thinking of large numeric overclocks, SSE 2 dependent programs (like bb2k said)... go Barton, good , reliable, cheap. Plenty of good nForce mobos to go around. Spend the rest of the money in a good graphic card, more hard drive space... that be what i'd do. It's about money too. If you have enough to burn it on a P4, be my guest. They're not, and i've never said they were, bad processors. Just overpriced and overrated (imo), but i'm biased in that point (AMD fan here).

As far as SATA goes, it's (IMO) not worth the extra money. Sure, you get nifty cables, which look good , but for the same price you can get a 120G Western Digital that performs just as good, and keep a few extra bucks for cake and coffee.

Paying as much as 30% or 40% more for less than 10% (i'd go as 5% in this case) , just isnt worth it.

Unless you want SATA to say... "hey! i've got a sata hard drive", or , again, have the money to spend without thinking twice, then that's the HDD for you.

trit187 · 07-30-2003, 02:32 PM

I think you guys are being over critical of intel, if you're willing to wait until intel does it's price break go with the 2.4 or 2.6c, alot of these processors are underclocked due to the high demand for them, they will outproform most amd's. Even on air they are overclocking to 3 ghz

satanicoo · 07-30-2003, 05:07 PM

Right now I have a P4 2400B@3200 533mhz with an asus p4t533-c and 512MB of Rimms.
I am able to sell it for the price of the pieces im asking.

I am not considering going to a barton, only because, acordingly to several tests i see on the web, even this one i have right now is able to beat it.

NOTE: I am not a fan of AMD or INTEL: Im just looking for the best.

About the hdd: I have already a maxtor 120 GB wich is enouf for me; right now I am only looking for a speedy one, and both Maxtor diamondMax plus 9 and (especialy) the raptor from WD are faster nowadays.

I am not sure about the board, so i'll just wait for more replies... But i think ill swich to the Asus P4C800.

trit187 · 07-30-2003, 05:44 PM

if you want speed get another one to match yours (if it has the 8mb cache) and set up a raid 0 array, will get you more profarmance then the other options

satanicoo · 07-30-2003, 07:15 PM

Nice idea trit187.
That way i get lots of speed and space (althout the same acess speed).

Anyway i think im gonna wait a while on the hdd, and just gonna buy the other 3 pieces.

BTW, does someone know when will Prescott arrive? and boards with DDR2?
And PCI-X?

thanks all.

TerraMex · 07-31-2003, 03:14 AM

>I am not considering going to a barton, only because, acordingly
>to several tests i see on the web, even this one i have right now
>is able to beat it.

Depends on a number of things, and depends on the Barton.

http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=55000278

A good read anyway . (just an example)

Anyway, in your case, if you can get an 800fsb p4 , then "gopher it". It's cheaper than a 3200+ barton.

But it looks like to me that you already have a good (overclockable) processor. You probably have more processing power that you actually need.

Which RIMMS? Most motherboards currently go for DDR support. So you'd probably have to ditch them. Which, frankly, no major loss. Unfortunatly the RIMM tech is/was ahead of its time, and didnt got the support that DDR did... and well, they're expensive. Asus p4c800 and the Abit IC7 (the best mobos , IMO) , both went for DDR 400 support.

>That way i get lots of speed and space (althout the same acess
>speed).

With RAID you get better access time. Stripping will do that for you, and will be better than SATA. However, no fault tolerance, but hey, if the SATA drive died, you'd get the same effect.

Reference link:

http://www.acnc.com/04_01_00.html

>BTW, does someone know when will Prescott arrive? and boards
>with DDR2?
>And PCI-X?

DDR 2 , next year.

Quote:

While Intel recently unveiled it's latest chipset, the 875P, formerly known as Canterwood, with support for DDR400 and utilizing Hyper-Threading high speed bus technology, a spokeswoman told Electronic News that the chip giant plans to release two enterprise chipsets supporting DDR2 sometime in 2004. Those chipsets, codenamed Lindenhurst and Twin Castle, are expected to utilize the next generation PCI Express bus.

Old news, but i havent read anything to refute it. So, early 2004.

Prescott has no real date to exit, probably the "when we feel like it". Something tells me when A64 does his entrance ; it's just dated for end of 2003 , but no motherboard currently supports due to the power consumptions. So, even if it came out now, you probably couldnt use it on current motherboards. And you need new motherboards out before , or at the same time as the processor comes out ... and i havent seen one yet. Althou the changes needed to make one support the Prescott are small, mainly, as i said, in the power department.

PCI-X even if it's implemented in motherboards this year, there is no real support for it , i.e., you can have the slot, but cant buy a proper card for it. Well, a usefull one anyway. Unless you want some weird server/wan card .

satanicoo · 07-31-2003, 10:49 AM

I forgot to say that my P4 2400@3200 is using a moded kryotech case

OK, i also forgot to say i use my pc more for gaming.
Normaly i see the barton a tiny litle bit ahead of the P4 on non-games benchs, and this one confirms what i suspected. Barton is somewhat better on contest creation software and others like that.

But anyway i must ask: is this amount of speed needed on this kind of programs?

And anyway is it needed on the games of today?

LOL.

I guess you are right. best thing to do is not buy anithing. I have a good pc, even acordingly to that review.

But note 1 thing: On the HDD raid-0, you get faster transfer rate, but not acess speed.
I mean, if you have 2 HDD capable of 50 mb/s of tranfers with 9 ms of acess, with raid-0, you will get 100 mb/s (teoricaly), but the same 9 ms acess.

Anyway, acess isnt important on gaming, i think...

And i have 1066 mhz RIMMS (16 bits). Like i said, im a fan of the best. I think lotsof ppl is against rimms because it is ultra-hiper-expensive. I know. Here in portugal i was asked 400$ for 2*256.
Ordered them from the outside world (America

) for 275$...

If Rimms got a new good chipset from intel, with support for RIMMS 1600 mhz, i believe it would own everithing again.
Chipset 850 leaded the performance for more then 2 years!

Blackeagle · 09-07-2003, 09:24 AM

From what I've read on differant sites the PCI-X boards won't be out until spring.

WD will also be bringing out a new Raptor with 73 gig of capacity, but not until late summer of 04.

Prescott is supposed to show in October (I think). But when will boards designed just for Prescott be out?

I'd like to know myself when the DDR II is coming out.

07-30-2003, 12:21 AM	#1
satanicoo Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: portugal Posts: 635	Building a new PC Hello guys. I am about to make a small upgrade to my computer. I want a cpu+MB+memory. I will go for intel since it is the fastest one. Im thinking of: -P4 2.4 C 800mhz; -gigabyte ga-8knxp -ddr400 cas 2 and maybe a hdd sata WD raptor 36gb. Just checking what you think, and if someoe disagrees with the MB, and if so, wich one should i get. Thanks in advance.

07-30-2003, 08:48 AM	#3
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	So you have an SSE2 enabled program that you use a lot? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-30-2003, 09:52 AM	#4
TerraMex Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portugal, Europe Posts: 870	my 0.02 cents. I'm willing to bet he's going for "the little P4 that could ... overclock alot". I've noticed in the past few months that a considerable number of overclockers have changed from AMD to Intel. As the latter has given a more overclockable stepping, combined with a increase of FSB to 800 , there's been a shift of supporters. It's not uncommon to see P4 2.4c to go up to 3.1Ghz/3.3Ghz on watercooling (or even good aircooling) . Interesting to see also that a considerable amout of "shifters" live for 3dmark scores, and live by them. And i know a few that do. I also know a guy who has built a second prometeia for that matter (gpu). So it's really (for alot of people) about numbers. I regulary see the "How many 3dmarks do you have?" or "How many PC marks" . Phooey. Reducing a complex machine as a computer to a single number is ridiculous, and making it an argument about dick size is even more. Oh well... Anyway, personally, has i stated before , i consider the money difference, a waste. Unless you're a Intel fan. However, as P4 goes, I've heard alot of good about the P4C800 from Asus . It seems to be the OC'ers election motherboard to date. Only had a gigabyte once, with VIA chipset, and it sucked. Ok, mainly because of the chipset , but it never looked particulary good. And as far as control goes, from what i've read, they're not as good as a Abit or Asus. If you're not thinking of large numeric overclocks, SSE 2 dependent programs (like bb2k said)... go Barton, good , reliable, cheap. Plenty of good nForce mobos to go around. Spend the rest of the money in a good graphic card, more hard drive space... that be what i'd do. It's about money too. If you have enough to burn it on a P4, be my guest. They're not, and i've never said they were, bad processors. Just overpriced and overrated (imo), but i'm biased in that point (AMD fan here). As far as SATA goes, it's (IMO) not worth the extra money. Sure, you get nifty cables, which look good , but for the same price you can get a 120G Western Digital that performs just as good, and keep a few extra bucks for cake and coffee. Paying as much as 30% or 40% more for less than 10% (i'd go as 5% in this case) , just isnt worth it. Unless you want SATA to say... "hey! i've got a sata hard drive", or , again, have the money to spend without thinking twice, then that's the HDD for you. __________________ "we need more cowbell." Last edited by TerraMex; 07-30-2003 at 10:09 AM.

07-30-2003, 12:52 AM	#2
trit187 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: shanghai, china Posts: 200	I've heard alot of good things about the asus 800 series mb's and if you just want a ata133 hd then Western Digital 120GB 8MB Cache HD for $50 after $70 rebates http://slickdeals.net/#p3448

07-30-2003, 02:32 PM	#5
trit187 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: shanghai, china Posts: 200	I think you guys are being over critical of intel, if you're willing to wait until intel does it's price break go with the 2.4 or 2.6c, alot of these processors are underclocked due to the high demand for them, they will outproform most amd's. Even on air they are overclocking to 3 ghz

07-30-2003, 05:07 PM	#6
satanicoo Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: portugal Posts: 635	Right now I have a P4 2400B@3200 533mhz with an asus p4t533-c and 512MB of Rimms. I am able to sell it for the price of the pieces im asking. I am not considering going to a barton, only because, acordingly to several tests i see on the web, even this one i have right now is able to beat it. NOTE: I am not a fan of AMD or INTEL: Im just looking for the best. About the hdd: I have already a maxtor 120 GB wich is enouf for me; right now I am only looking for a speedy one, and both Maxtor diamondMax plus 9 and (especialy) the raptor from WD are faster nowadays. I am not sure about the board, so i'll just wait for more replies... But i think ill swich to the Asus P4C800.

07-30-2003, 05:44 PM	#7
trit187 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: shanghai, china Posts: 200	if you want speed get another one to match yours (if it has the 8mb cache) and set up a raid 0 array, will get you more profarmance then the other options

07-30-2003, 07:15 PM	#8
satanicoo Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: portugal Posts: 635	Nice idea trit187. That way i get lots of speed and space (althout the same acess speed). Anyway i think im gonna wait a while on the hdd, and just gonna buy the other 3 pieces. BTW, does someone know when will Prescott arrive? and boards with DDR2? And PCI-X? thanks all.

07-31-2003, 10:49 AM	#10
satanicoo Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: portugal Posts: 635	I forgot to say that my P4 2400@3200 is using a moded kryotech case OK, i also forgot to say i use my pc more for gaming. Normaly i see the barton a tiny litle bit ahead of the P4 on non-games benchs, and this one confirms what i suspected. Barton is somewhat better on contest creation software and others like that. But anyway i must ask: is this amount of speed needed on this kind of programs? And anyway is it needed on the games of today? LOL. I guess you are right. best thing to do is not buy anithing. I have a good pc, even acordingly to that review. But note 1 thing: On the HDD raid-0, you get faster transfer rate, but not acess speed. I mean, if you have 2 HDD capable of 50 mb/s of tranfers with 9 ms of acess, with raid-0, you will get 100 mb/s (teoricaly), but the same 9 ms acess. Anyway, acess isnt important on gaming, i think... And i have 1066 mhz RIMMS (16 bits). Like i said, im a fan of the best. I think lotsof ppl is against rimms because it is ultra-hiper-expensive. I know. Here in portugal i was asked 400$ for 2*256. Ordered them from the outside world (America ) for 275$... If Rimms got a new good chipset from intel, with support for RIMMS 1600 mhz, i believe it would own everithing again. Chipset 850 leaded the performance for more then 2 years!

09-07-2003, 09:24 AM	#11
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	From what I've read on differant sites the PCI-X boards won't be out until spring. WD will also be bringing out a new Raptor with 73 gig of capacity, but not until late summer of 04. Prescott is supposed to show in October (I think). But when will boards designed just for Prescott be out? I'd like to know myself when the DDR II is coming out.

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