Received my Maze3 yesterday, not quite satisfied.

Jim · 04-13-2002, 10:54 AM

The block I received has a variance of about 1/32" from top to base when measuring around the perimeter. An actual gap between the top and the copper base is clearly visible. I tried to tighten the setscrews on one side to even things up, but I don't want to torque them down too tight and crack the top.

When mounting the Maze2 I use a rule to take measurements off the top surface of the block to the motherboard. I don't use a shim, (maybe I should) and I have the springs on my Maze2 completely compressed. Having the block setting on the core on an angle won't be satisfactory. I don’t see how I can maintain a proper fit. I did count rotations while tightening the nuts from corner to corner as suggested the first time I installed the Maze 2 and still needed to use a rule to check progress and remain parallel.

Regarding the Maze 2 I find the block to be greater in symmetry than the Maze3.

Overall I am not enthused about the workmanship on this block.
I may contact Danger Den and request a replacement, or a refund. More money wasted on shipping.
Jim

zoson · 04-13-2002, 11:06 AM

ouch...

DigitalChaos · 04-13-2002, 11:47 AM

ok... you NEED that gap there. if the top and bottom were tight against eachother... there wouldnt be as much pressure on the rubber.

your variance is probably easily corrected by tweaking the screws. 1/32" wont take a whole lot of extra torquing. hell, just release some of the tenson on the other side of the block as well.

anyway, how does it perform compared to the maze-2

Jim · 04-13-2002, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DigitalChaos

anyway, how does it perform compared to the maze-2

Not installed yet.
Got to get it right before I can install.
Jim

EMC2 · 04-13-2002, 02:30 PM

Jim - is the variance in the block itself - or- in the top - or in the compression height of the o-ring? If the bottom is flat and the variance is only from one mounting point to the other (and not from non-mounting side to non-mounting side), you could use a washer to adjust for it.

Can't blame you for being dissatisfied tho and am semi-surprised with it being a DD block.

Jim · 04-13-2002, 04:08 PM

Emc2-
I removed the top and took measurements all around the copper base and found only a variance of .003" with a micrometer. That is very, very good.

The reason for the variance was pointed out by DigitalChaos correctly which is caused by the amount of torque placed on each set screw.

Of course now that I removed the screws and measured I have discovered a vertical fracture along one of the screw holes.

This does not surprise me in the least since there is barely a 64th of an inch of material between the screw's countersink hole and the edge of the plastic. There is no support remaining.

I don't want to be critical, since I have never built a block, but I think it would have been wise to have designed this with an extra 1/2 " or even a 1/4" of plastic (a skirt) around the perimeter of the copper block to contribute strength.

I did not put any arm into snugging the bolts down and thus causing the fracture. It was there.

What I am concerned with now are potential leaks due to failure of the plastic top. It wouldn't take much for the crack to blossom out in the other direction. Maybe I am just paranoid, or being too critical but who needs a leak at the water block?

I think an overhang on the plastic top would provide a margin of insurance that most of us would appreciate. As, it might look a little funny (if this was taken to heart and implemented), a bevel could be cut around the plastic top for visual enhancement. Look at the snap and notice the distance from the screw to the edge of the material.
Jim

Joe · 04-13-2002, 04:14 PM

I for one lost my love for lexan topped blocks back in the OCWC days.

Polycarbonate is just not strong enough and resistant enough to cracking for blocks. I have NEVER seen a block with a polycarbonate top be released without some issues poping up right away.

I think they can fix the problems pretty easy though. Most other Poly topped blocks just needed some tweaking of design to make the implementation fly.

Just calling Lexan growing pains

Jim · 04-13-2002, 04:19 PM

Joe-
What does "OCWC" mean?

Do you think my idea regarding expanding the top makes any sense?

I sure as heck am not going to put this particluar unit on my machine!
Jim

Jim · 04-13-2002, 04:27 PM

Compare my image of my Maze3 to this image we were given back then, whenever.

More meat along side the screws.

There have been changes! Check out the middle of the bock, see any differences! Maybe there are more?

Jim

Kevin · 04-13-2002, 04:39 PM

Hehe while I assume lexan topped blocks have gotten better, I received 3 leakers in a row from OCWC... that was rough.
-Kev

Cyco-Dude · 04-13-2002, 05:04 PM

heh, give it to me, i wont have any trouble putting it on

yeah, it does look like they had a bigger top...but i dont notice any changes to the copper block (maybe u see something i dont?)

DigitalChaos · 04-13-2002, 05:29 PM

well take a better look at the 2 blocks... they are for completely different processors. that is why they look different (remember, DD sells 2 types of maze3)

also.. it LOOKS like the "first" pic of the maze3 has a triangle in the center.. but thats bad lighting. it is infact just like the one you have.

Jessfm · 04-13-2002, 05:35 PM

We designed our Neptune blocks (released before the maze3 btw) with as thick a cap as we possibly could
We have the center machined out to creat shoulders to help with rigidity once everything is clamped down.
We use 12mm UV stabilised Polycarbonate.
You can read about one of the pre-production blocks ( we release them for delevelopment before we go retail) http://www.coolhardware.co.uk/module...123&forum=5&17
As for the DD blocks themselfs -- the amount of pressure thats needed to clamp say a 2mm 'O' ring is fairly small to achieve a total seal , we test upto 2.5Bar (around 65psi).
I dont see why DD should be leaving a gap between the lid & base - unless their Caps warp when clamping ???

Sherlock · 04-13-2002, 05:37 PM

Yeah, It looks like the center of your block has a thinner devider than the better "milled" demo (Jim's looks cast to me) that was originally shown us. Actually, I was counting on that larger center devider (in the original photo) to help with heat transfer off the cpu core as it is completely surrounded with water. And you're right, those top hold down screws look a bit too close to the edge to be considered "durable"

.

Jim · 04-13-2002, 05:37 PM

DigitalChaos
Right I thought the little island (you called it a "triangle") was much larger than the one I have.

I still predict a problem with the top cracking for others, time will tell.
Jim

EMC2 · 04-13-2002, 05:38 PM

Jim - any chance of getting you to take a closeup pic of a side view in the area of one of the lid screws? (the block rotated 90 degrees from the orientation in your first pic and "zoomed" in closer)

Jessfm · 04-13-2002, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim
DigitalChaos
Right I thought the little island (you called it a "triangle") was much larger than the one I have.

I still predict a problem with the top cracking for others, time will tell.
Jim

What is the thickness of their top ?
We experienced cracking , especialy around the barbs even @ 12mm on some early test units.
Some of the sample Polycarbonate we recieved also was very prone to discolouration - some aditives attacked the surface.
now we have a surface treated substance - but its far more expensive.

Jim · 04-13-2002, 05:44 PM

Jessfm-

I would like to have been able to torque this thing down so the top was against or at least closer to the copper base than 1/32", but now after discovering the fracture, I'm not even going to try.

This is my fault for ordering in the first round. I bought my entire water cooling setup from Danger Den a couple of months ago(maze2 etc) except the Ford heater core. No problem or complaints with any of those components.

Don't know if I should ask for another Maze 3 or a refund? I think they should look at this Lexan cap's design again. As far as I am concerned I would rather have a solid block of copper, but I think if people want a clear top, it should be available too.
Jim

Jessfm · 04-13-2002, 05:47 PM

I would not give up on the DD maze3 jus tyet m8, its very possible you got a bad one - does happen. maybe ask for a replacement, and explain the problem.
Very possible the 'O' ring channel did'nt quite get cut deep enough ??

Jim · 04-13-2002, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jessfm

What is the thickness of their top ?
We experienced cracking , especialy around the barbs even @ 12mm on some early test units.
Some of the sample Polycarbonate we recieved also was very prone to discolouration - some aditives attacked the surface.
now we have a surface treated substance - but its far more expensive.

The top is 11/32" thick, Jessfm. Or, about 8.5MM. UT OH!

Hey, little info here, Jessfm who are you referring to as we? Must be a company or product you are connected to and I missed that fact somehere, help me out here.

Jim

Jim · 04-13-2002, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EMC2
Jim - any chance of getting you to take a closeup pic of a side view in the area of one of the lid screws? (the block rotated 90 degrees from the orientation in your first pic and "zoomed" in closer)

EMC2-
Please explain, do you want an edge shot, showing the vertical plane?
Jim

Jessfm · 04-13-2002, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim

The top is 11/32" thick, Jessfm. Or, about 8.5MM. UT OH!
Hey, little info here, Jessfm who are you referring to as we? Must be a company or product you are connected to and I missed that fact somehere, help me out here.
Jim

We "as in me & a guy called Awol " are OCPC.

Just a UK based manufacturer of Cooling products - so no danger to DD

if not supposed to link - pls email me to remove.
www.OverclockedPC.co.uk

8.5mm is thicker then it looks in pics - very misleading. Would have expected it to be thick enough TBH.
Are the blocks cast then or machined ?>

Jim · 04-13-2002, 06:02 PM

Here ya go side shot, the screw hole on the right has the fracture on the vertical. It runs on an angle from bottom to top left to right, might be hard to see.

Jim

EMC2 · 04-13-2002, 06:06 PM

Jim - exactly what I meant for the view

Thanks!

Jessm - did you think about using clear mylar for a protective film?

Jim · 04-13-2002, 06:07 PM

Another shot:

I think you can see the crack here, if you compare left to right (cracked).

Jim

04-13-2002, 10:54 AM	#1
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	Received my Maze3 yesterday, not quite satisfied. The block I received has a variance of about 1/32" from top to base when measuring around the perimeter. An actual gap between the top and the copper base is clearly visible. I tried to tighten the setscrews on one side to even things up, but I don't want to torque them down too tight and crack the top. When mounting the Maze2 I use a rule to take measurements off the top surface of the block to the motherboard. I don't use a shim, (maybe I should) and I have the springs on my Maze2 completely compressed. Having the block setting on the core on an angle won't be satisfactory. I don’t see how I can maintain a proper fit. I did count rotations while tightening the nuts from corner to corner as suggested the first time I installed the Maze 2 and still needed to use a rule to check progress and remain parallel. Regarding the Maze 2 I find the block to be greater in symmetry than the Maze3. Overall I am not enthused about the workmanship on this block. I may contact Danger Den and request a replacement, or a refund. More money wasted on shipping. Jim

04-13-2002, 11:06 AM	#2
zoson Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: X Posts: 204	ouch... __________________ Core i7 930 @ 4254Hz 22x193 \| ASUS R3E 901 BIOS \| 12GB Mushkin Blackline 3x4GB @ 1547MHz 7-8-7-24-1N \| Lian Li PC-A10B 2x EVGA GTX275 SLI @ 720/1266/1566 \| 2x 80GB Intel X25-M G2 SSD Raid 0 \| 3x 1TB Samsung Spinpoint 7.2K Raid 5 \| Corsair 950TX H2O \| Enzotech Sapphire Rev.A \| EK-FB RE3 \| Swiftech - 2x MCW60/GTX275 Unisink, MCP655b, MCRes Micro.v2 \| 3x HWLabs SR1-120 あなたの神への弓 Time isn't wasted, when you're gettin' wasted.

04-13-2002, 04:14 PM	#7
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	I for one lost my love for lexan topped blocks back in the OCWC days. Polycarbonate is just not strong enough and resistant enough to cracking for blocks. I have NEVER seen a block with a polycarbonate top be released without some issues poping up right away. I think they can fix the problems pretty easy though. Most other Poly topped blocks just needed some tweaking of design to make the implementation fly. Just calling Lexan growing pains __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

04-13-2002, 04:39 PM	#10
Kevin Slacking more than your weird uncle Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: San Diego, CA (UCSD) / Los Angeles, CA (home) Posts: 1,605	Hehe while I assume lexan topped blocks have gotten better, I received 3 leakers in a row from OCWC... that was rough. -Kev __________________ I used to throw hot coffee all over the ass of the horse there, then whip him while he was kickin' at me. Those f***in things are crazy.

04-13-2002, 05:37 PM	#14
Sherlock Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 31	Yeah, It looks like the center of your block has a thinner devider than the better "milled" demo (Jim's looks cast to me) that was originally shown us. Actually, I was counting on that larger center devider (in the original photo) to help with heat transfer off the cpu core as it is completely surrounded with water. And you're right, those top hold down screws look a bit too close to the edge to be considered "durable" . __________________ A-XP1.75ghz/8k3a+/475W Turbo-cool PSU/60GBATA100 -512Corsair xms2400 w/AS3+spreders -R9700pro(volt-modded-water cooled) -16xdvd/HP 24x20x40x cdrw -Sherlock customized 'Hurricane' mid-tower case w/blowhole+baybus (case & ambient temps equal) -Z4(orig.)waterblock/ 380gphpump/ custom plexyglass resevoir/ Aquacoil2 radiator(L.pres.drp)/1/2"fittings/ -Purple Ice/Rounded IDE cables- All fit VERY nicely in a mid-tower case with great air flow Last edited by Sherlock; 04-13-2002 at 05:39 PM.

04-13-2002, 11:47 AM	#3
DigitalChaos Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Waukesha, Wi Posts: 698	ok... you NEED that gap there. if the top and bottom were tight against eachother... there wouldnt be as much pressure on the rubber. your variance is probably easily corrected by tweaking the screws. 1/32" wont take a whole lot of extra torquing. hell, just release some of the tenson on the other side of the block as well. anyway, how does it perform compared to the maze-2

04-13-2002, 02:30 PM	#5
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	Jim - is the variance in the block itself - or- in the top - or in the compression height of the o-ring? If the bottom is flat and the variance is only from one mounting point to the other (and not from non-mounting side to non-mounting side), you could use a washer to adjust for it. Can't blame you for being dissatisfied tho and am semi-surprised with it being a DD block.

04-13-2002, 04:08 PM	#6
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	Emc2- I removed the top and took measurements all around the copper base and found only a variance of .003" with a micrometer. That is very, very good. The reason for the variance was pointed out by DigitalChaos correctly which is caused by the amount of torque placed on each set screw. Of course now that I removed the screws and measured I have discovered a vertical fracture along one of the screw holes. This does not surprise me in the least since there is barely a 64th of an inch of material between the screw's countersink hole and the edge of the plastic. There is no support remaining. I don't want to be critical, since I have never built a block, but I think it would have been wise to have designed this with an extra 1/2 " or even a 1/4" of plastic (a skirt) around the perimeter of the copper block to contribute strength. I did not put any arm into snugging the bolts down and thus causing the fracture. It was there. What I am concerned with now are potential leaks due to failure of the plastic top. It wouldn't take much for the crack to blossom out in the other direction. Maybe I am just paranoid, or being too critical but who needs a leak at the water block? I think an overhang on the plastic top would provide a margin of insurance that most of us would appreciate. As, it might look a little funny (if this was taken to heart and implemented), a bevel could be cut around the plastic top for visual enhancement. Look at the snap and notice the distance from the screw to the edge of the material. Jim

04-13-2002, 04:19 PM	#8
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	Joe- What does "OCWC" mean? Do you think my idea regarding expanding the top makes any sense? I sure as heck am not going to put this particluar unit on my machine! Jim

04-13-2002, 04:27 PM	#9
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	Compare my image of my Maze3 to this image we were given back then, whenever. More meat along side the screws. There have been changes! Check out the middle of the bock, see any differences! Maybe there are more? Jim

04-13-2002, 05:04 PM	#11
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	heh, give it to me, i wont have any trouble putting it on yeah, it does look like they had a bigger top...but i dont notice any changes to the copper block (maybe u see something i dont?)

04-13-2002, 05:29 PM	#12
DigitalChaos Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Waukesha, Wi Posts: 698	well take a better look at the 2 blocks... they are for completely different processors. that is why they look different (remember, DD sells 2 types of maze3) also.. it LOOKS like the "first" pic of the maze3 has a triangle in the center.. but thats bad lighting. it is infact just like the one you have.

04-13-2002, 05:35 PM	#13
Jessfm Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 110	We designed our Neptune blocks (released before the maze3 btw) with as thick a cap as we possibly could We have the center machined out to creat shoulders to help with rigidity once everything is clamped down. We use 12mm UV stabilised Polycarbonate. You can read about one of the pre-production blocks ( we release them for delevelopment before we go retail) http://www.coolhardware.co.uk/module...123&forum=5&17 As for the DD blocks themselfs -- the amount of pressure thats needed to clamp say a 2mm 'O' ring is fairly small to achieve a total seal , we test upto 2.5Bar (around 65psi). I dont see why DD should be leaving a gap between the lid & base - unless their Caps warp when clamping ???

04-13-2002, 05:38 PM	#16
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	Jim - any chance of getting you to take a closeup pic of a side view in the area of one of the lid screws? (the block rotated 90 degrees from the orientation in your first pic and "zoomed" in closer)

04-13-2002, 05:44 PM	#18
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	Jessfm- I would like to have been able to torque this thing down so the top was against or at least closer to the copper base than 1/32", but now after discovering the fracture, I'm not even going to try. This is my fault for ordering in the first round. I bought my entire water cooling setup from Danger Den a couple of months ago(maze2 etc) except the Ford heater core. No problem or complaints with any of those components. Don't know if I should ask for another Maze 3 or a refund? I think they should look at this Lexan cap's design again. As far as I am concerned I would rather have a solid block of copper, but I think if people want a clear top, it should be available too. Jim

04-13-2002, 05:47 PM	#19
Jessfm Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 110	I would not give up on the DD maze3 jus tyet m8, its very possible you got a bad one - does happen. maybe ask for a replacement, and explain the problem. Very possible the 'O' ring channel did'nt quite get cut deep enough ??

04-13-2002, 06:02 PM	#23
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	Here ya go side shot, the screw hole on the right has the fracture on the vertical. It runs on an angle from bottom to top left to right, might be hard to see. Jim

04-13-2002, 06:06 PM	#24
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	Jim - exactly what I meant for the view Thanks! Jessm - did you think about using clear mylar for a protective film?

04-13-2002, 06:07 PM	#25
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	Another shot: I think you can see the crack here, if you compare left to right (cracked). Jim

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