Got the Z4 today... - Page 6

jaydee · 03-30-2002, 08:46 PM

So Fixittt borrows my design, mods it to work with the Z4, and a few weeks later they come out with their own version with the same design?

Had to bump this...

Brad · 03-30-2002, 09:01 PM

I agree, they should die.

SilversinkSam · 03-30-2002, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad
the maze2 is definately worth the money, but I'm still semi skeptical about eheims being worth so much (although DDen have the best price on them)

No they dont,

You must not have looked here and Here

Triton · 03-30-2002, 09:23 PM

That's a good price if it's the only part you need. However, if you need multiple parts

blocks, pump, res, tubing, clamps. Might as well get it all from one place even if the price of the pump is a bit higher. In the end you'll save on shipping.

SilversinkSam · 03-30-2002, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Triton
That's a good price if it's the only part you need. However, if you need multiple parts

blocks, pump, res, tubing, clamps. Might as well get it all from one place even if the price of the pump is a bit higher. In the end you'll save on shipping.

While thats true, DD ran out of Ehein 1250's and thats how I know you can get it cheaper elsewhere :shrug:

I was just commenting on that wasnt the cheapest place to get one....I showed you it for $7.92 cheaper elsewhere....

Brad · 03-30-2002, 10:58 PM

ok, so they're cheaper, sorry about that, defending myself now, as Sam pointed out, once you take shipping into account, DDen is probably going to be cheaper as you will be buying some other parts from DDen

Spleener · 03-31-2002, 10:35 AM

The Z4 has been revamped. Latest review at Overclockers.com has it outperforming the DDen Maze2. It runs head to head with the swiftech.

Why did you have so much trouble installing it? I used the nylon screws with no shim and everything was a piece of cake.

IM cooling GPU/CPU at 160X11 (xp1900) and full load temps are 37.

I am using the new Z4 block though and not the old one. The channel DO NOT overlap.. but lets think about this for a sec.

Where is the data that says thats a bad thing. Its an assumption. Hell the new Maze3 design in effect has overlapping channels. Laminar flow it DOES NOT promote.

I am not sure why your temps were so high. They were WAY too high. I cant get temps that high even trying. I think you had an outlyer.. A bad block.. That happens every now and then with anything.. (cars, memory) etc. I cant understand why you didnt try to contact the company.. (maybe you did, should have mentioned it.)

I think the latest Z4 block is a worthy block and the data that hoot published at overclockers.com is support for it.

Personally It works well enough for me not to make it worthwhile to go back to my old block (maze2) I get equivalent cooling. Why switch back.

Now, I need to add the delivery times ont he block were 4 weeks when they advertised 2. That was annoying.

jaydee · 03-31-2002, 11:30 AM

I am not sure which "New" block you have, but I am assuming it is either the 3/8" or less barb version (the ones where the channels do not overlap) of the one I tested in this thread (which is less than 2 months old BTW) or it is the Newest block that they ripped off from me and Fixittt with the one big channel? Either way that company will never get my respect for stealing other people's designs and trying to push a crappy 1/2" barb version to newbs that don't know any better.

What do you mean I got such high temps? I got average temps in this thread that match dozens of other peoples results. After I milled out the channel it worked MUCH better. You need to check the accuracy of your thermal probe. If there is ANY air moving behind the mobo or directed towards the CPU socket it will drop the temps 5-10C by the thermister as it will send false results. I got a fan pushing air down on the heatsinks on the voltage regulators on my Epox 8K7A and that fan alone dropped my readings 5C and it is off to the side of it, I take that fan off and it raises 5C. I know for a fact that the CPU really isn't changing that much as I have tested it with an external probe. If you do not have an external probe or the built in one in the XP core with a board that supports it your temps are invalid to begine with. Also you never posted your Room temps or water temps. My room temps are 26C and water temp 29C so it is very difficult to get much lower temps without lowering the room temps as 39C is only 10C above water temp in my tests which isn't that bad and is what I average which is better than most. And that is with accurate temps monitoring which most do not have.

[sarcasm]
Thanks for buying from a company that rips off other peoples ideas without asking them. Your support is noted and you poor reply with lack of real proof of your temps will always get people behind you. And thanks for pointing out that overlapped channels is not a bad thing that shows lots of proof that you have a clue.

How many blocks have you made and tested?[/sarcasm]

Spleener · 03-31-2002, 02:26 PM

Enlighten me dude! Please give me a link to an independant journal study or web based eval that proves your point, that "overlapping channels are a bad thing" I say your assuming this. SHOW ME THE DATA! When I see it, Ill eat crow.. I want the truth as much as anyone.. BUT I SAY AGAIN.. IM WILLING TO BET YOU DONT HAVE ANY DATA! It seems your smart enough that IF YOU DID HAVE DATA, you would have pulled it out by now.

Furthermore,

YOUR the one who needs to show proof.. IM not the one making reviews with no data.

I call that irresponsible.

Your an excellent example of statements based on feelings and not data..

Pull out the data on barb size! You dont have any!

As far as you being "ripped off" I think thats pretty funny. Go to court then and quit whining to me about.. I CANT help you out. Also there is something in the US called trademarks.. Might want to go research them.. I would bet CPUfx has one on the Z4.

Lastly, my temp are relative. All else the same, I can trust my probe on different waterblocks. There is no reason for me to waste time changing back to the maze2.. My data and Hoot's data show the Z4 to be comparable to the Swiftech and better or the same to the Maze2.

Now you can moan, complain, call me a llama, moron whatever but your belief or disbelief doesnt change reality.

There ARE things to slam CPUfx over but the latest Z4 block isnt one of them.

Oh btw here is the link to the Z4 review from an UNBIASED reviewer at overclockers.com
http://www.overclockers.com/articles551/

Brad · 03-31-2002, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
[sarcasm]
Thanks for buying from a company that rips off other peoples ideas without asking them. Your support is noted and you poor reply with lack of real proof of your temps will always get people behind you. And thanks for pointing out that overlapped channels is not a bad thing that shows lots of proof that you have a clue. How many blocks have you made and tested?[/sarcasm]

fvck thats funny

Spleener, i'm not even sure how to reply. I can only think of one thing, are you on the och/cpufx payroll, or are you smoking some really good shit?

Spleener · 03-31-2002, 02:34 PM

No Im not in anyway associated with CPUfx. I know they have posed as reviewers in the past and thats lame. Im not saying the company is without flaw.. They pissed me off when they shipped the block to me 2 weeks late.

BUT

Im tired of seeing reviews on this whole topic with no data and blanket statements that are based on tradition and feeling and not on hard science.

I guess the fact that the Z4 scored a good review in a reputable evaluation doesnt count.

Being that, it doesnt matter how good a block CPUfx makes you and others are going to ignore the facts. Bias is huge problem with anykind of interpretation.

I really cant rub your noses in the data anymore than I have already, I have better things to do..

Brad · 03-31-2002, 02:41 PM

so? just buy the same block from jaydee at 40% of the och price, you'll get it quicker, and it will be much better quality

Spleener · 03-31-2002, 02:43 PM

THATS AN OPTION!

Im not recommending people buy from this company.. I am mearly saying the latest Z4 block is not "trash"

BUT AGAIN

"much better quality"

Thats EXACTLY what im talking about. I guess its hopeless..

LOOK

In engineering, you cant simply say "its better"

We use benchmarks, and STUDIES, to produce data, then we compare.

I give up

Spleener · 03-31-2002, 02:47 PM

and oh.. I hate to ramble on..

But the fact that Jaydee is selling a similiar block really SHEDS LIGHT on his stance.. I completely understand now whats going on.. No no bias there!! lol

Ok guys.. I get the picture.. It all makes sense now. No need for me to continue this debate I can tell its a no winner given this new revelation.

Brad · 03-31-2002, 02:49 PM

yeah, he made it, then they copied him

jaydee · 03-31-2002, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spleener
and oh.. I hate to ramble on..

But the fact that Jaydee is selling a similiar block really SHEDS LIGHT on his stance.. I completely understand now whats going on.. No no bias there!! lol

Ok guys.. I get the picture.. It all makes sense now. No need for me to continue this debate I can tell its a no winner given this new revelation.

I am not selling any blocks professionally as CPUFX IS. And the block in question is considerable superior to CPU FX's version. I make a few now and then for people who ask but I have no business in it yet. I also don't take other people's ideas and try to profit from it or I would be selling a Spiral of my own. Of course that is probably why I am not in business.

Anyway you have said absolutly nothing to make anything even close to a inteligant comment about water cooling or the Z4.

Also how do get water to flow through a channel if the same input is going into the same channel at a different spot. The water will meet at a point and STOP, makes the channel useless. Of course your a rocket scientist as you have proven with all your valuable data so I will let it go.

I am far from an engineer but that is just common sence.

Your temps are relative?

Thats real solid there!!

Quote:

We use benchmarks, and STUDIES, to produce data, then we compare.

That was said by you yet I see ZERO evidence that the Z4 is worth anything.

I tested it, tore it apart, made it better and documented it. lets see that from you before you go talking it up.

And NO, it does not matter how good their future blocks maybe, this is enough to turn anyone away from their BS on a moral level. If I buy from them I am buying someone elses design that they stole. That is why I design amd make my own blocks so I do not get a copy cat from someone else.

Anyway enough said on the subject. if anyone reads this thread and still thinks CPUFX is good place to buy then you deserve what you get!!!

jbe · 03-31-2002, 09:12 PM

OCH doesn't even have that copper based Z4 on the site anymore.

now they have a block that is silver colored, supposedly made of aluminum, copper, and silver, still called the Z4, even though it's totally different.

here's the link, look at the pics on the bottom of the page

https://www.overclockershideout.com/...tegory_Code=WB

jaydee · 03-31-2002, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jbe
OCH doesn't even have that copper based Z4 on the site anymore.

now they have a block that is silver colored, supposedly made of aluminum, copper, and silver, still called the Z4, even though it's totally different.

here's the link, look at the pics on the bottom of the page

https://www.overclockershideout.com/...tegory_Code=WB

yeah if you read this thread you would have seen this:

Which is the modded version of my block that Fixittt did to the Z4 and then a week later they had out what you posted there.

jbe · 03-31-2002, 09:31 PM

sorry i didn't read through all 6 pages, my bad.

just gotta laugh about that copy of theirs. that's pathetic, lol

Highvoltagepc · 03-31-2002, 10:50 PM

och
The point i think people are trying to make is -
that it dont make sense that they (och) would put all that cnc work into a block ,just to have the water go over the top of all of the inner channels,instead of staying in the channels.wtf....it does go back to not using common sense...
removing the maze of channels yielded better temps than their original design!so the original block is a waste of potential,-as far as my standards go (and obviously the rest of the industry's standards also)
And now they try to redeem them selves by copying a design that has been shown to the public eye quite some time ago by fixittt,and selling it as thier own...sheesh, why cant people come up with their own ideas-
-and on that review of the z4 at o/c's,it doesnt seem like the same block they are currently selling or is it?
the top pic in the review is one with a copper base ,shouldered into an aluminum top,the second and third pics show a completely differant base with no copper and no shoulder,so what block is it that got a review,im confused!

Joe · 03-31-2002, 11:17 PM

I am sorry, but OCH could make a waterblock that on its own cooled a chip as well as a phase change system and I still wouldnt buy it.

have you seen how he has ****ed people on his own forums and others? have you seen OCH's track record of crap customer serivce and customer strong arming?

Maybe you dig a company that will look for ANY way to screw you out of support for the product you buy ( just use water wetter and see), but I dont dig scam's like that.

regardless of how good a Z4 is, I would recomend going with a company that isnt out of shaft its customers. Of course you could see this on their forum... err never mind they delete out anything that could be considered a complaint.

Brad · 04-01-2002, 12:20 AM

yeah, they pimped the Z4, saw that someone made it twice as good, basically made a new block with the same old top, they should have called it the Z5, but all the old blow job reviews stil exist, so they had to keep the name. notice how their site mentions NOTHING of the changes

Psychotic · 04-01-2002, 12:35 AM

Isn't there some kind of better business bureau that we could report these jerk-offs to? :shrug:

Brad · 04-01-2002, 01:08 AM

the military

their address is on their website, just cruise down and attack them

ghogman · 04-03-2002, 01:12 AM

after all of this talk about the block, what about the pump used in the kit, is it good? and the radiator?

03-30-2002, 09:01 PM	#127
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I agree, they should die. __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-30-2002, 09:23 PM	#129
Triton Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Union City, CA Posts: 78	That's a good price if it's the only part you need. However, if you need multiple parts blocks, pump, res, tubing, clamps. Might as well get it all from one place even if the price of the pump is a bit higher. In the end you'll save on shipping. __________________ XP1800+ Gigabyte GA-7DX 512mb Crucial 2100 watercooled with Danger Den, Eheim, 1/2" silicone tubing, and Black Ice Xtreme radiator. Liteon 24x10x40x CDRW WD80gb +30gb hard drives Liteon FS020 case and much more at http://www.jakeandkelly.com/customcomputer/index.htm

03-30-2002, 10:58 PM	#131
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	ok, so they're cheaper, sorry about that, defending myself now, as Sam pointed out, once you take shipping into account, DDen is probably going to be cheaper as you will be buying some other parts from DDen __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-31-2002, 10:35 AM	#132
Spleener Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5	Z4 revamped The Z4 has been revamped. Latest review at Overclockers.com has it outperforming the DDen Maze2. It runs head to head with the swiftech. Why did you have so much trouble installing it? I used the nylon screws with no shim and everything was a piece of cake. IM cooling GPU/CPU at 160X11 (xp1900) and full load temps are 37. I am using the new Z4 block though and not the old one. The channel DO NOT overlap.. but lets think about this for a sec. Where is the data that says thats a bad thing. Its an assumption. Hell the new Maze3 design in effect has overlapping channels. Laminar flow it DOES NOT promote. I am not sure why your temps were so high. They were WAY too high. I cant get temps that high even trying. I think you had an outlyer.. A bad block.. That happens every now and then with anything.. (cars, memory) etc. I cant understand why you didnt try to contact the company.. (maybe you did, should have mentioned it.) I think the latest Z4 block is a worthy block and the data that hoot published at overclockers.com is support for it. Personally It works well enough for me not to make it worthwhile to go back to my old block (maze2) I get equivalent cooling. Why switch back. Now, I need to add the delivery times ont he block were 4 weeks when they advertised 2. That was annoying.

03-31-2002, 02:26 PM	#134
Spleener Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5	Enlighten me dude! Please give me a link to an independant journal study or web based eval that proves your point, that "overlapping channels are a bad thing" I say your assuming this. SHOW ME THE DATA! When I see it, Ill eat crow.. I want the truth as much as anyone.. BUT I SAY AGAIN.. IM WILLING TO BET YOU DONT HAVE ANY DATA! It seems your smart enough that IF YOU DID HAVE DATA, you would have pulled it out by now. Furthermore, YOUR the one who needs to show proof.. IM not the one making reviews with no data. I call that irresponsible. Your an excellent example of statements based on feelings and not data.. Pull out the data on barb size! You dont have any! As far as you being "ripped off" I think thats pretty funny. Go to court then and quit whining to me about.. I CANT help you out. Also there is something in the US called trademarks.. Might want to go research them.. I would bet CPUfx has one on the Z4. Lastly, my temp are relative. All else the same, I can trust my probe on different waterblocks. There is no reason for me to waste time changing back to the maze2.. My data and Hoot's data show the Z4 to be comparable to the Swiftech and better or the same to the Maze2. Now you can moan, complain, call me a llama, moron whatever but your belief or disbelief doesnt change reality. There ARE things to slam CPUfx over but the latest Z4 block isnt one of them. Oh btw here is the link to the Z4 review from an UNBIASED reviewer at overclockers.com http://www.overclockers.com/articles551/ Last edited by Spleener; 03-31-2002 at 02:41 PM.

03-30-2002, 08:46 PM	#126
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	So Fixittt borrows my design, mods it to work with the Z4, and a few weeks later they come out with their own version with the same design? Had to bump this...

03-31-2002, 11:30 AM	#133
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	I am not sure which "New" block you have, but I am assuming it is either the 3/8" or less barb version (the ones where the channels do not overlap) of the one I tested in this thread (which is less than 2 months old BTW) or it is the Newest block that they ripped off from me and Fixittt with the one big channel? Either way that company will never get my respect for stealing other people's designs and trying to push a crappy 1/2" barb version to newbs that don't know any better. What do you mean I got such high temps? I got average temps in this thread that match dozens of other peoples results. After I milled out the channel it worked MUCH better. You need to check the accuracy of your thermal probe. If there is ANY air moving behind the mobo or directed towards the CPU socket it will drop the temps 5-10C by the thermister as it will send false results. I got a fan pushing air down on the heatsinks on the voltage regulators on my Epox 8K7A and that fan alone dropped my readings 5C and it is off to the side of it, I take that fan off and it raises 5C. I know for a fact that the CPU really isn't changing that much as I have tested it with an external probe. If you do not have an external probe or the built in one in the XP core with a board that supports it your temps are invalid to begine with. Also you never posted your Room temps or water temps. My room temps are 26C and water temp 29C so it is very difficult to get much lower temps without lowering the room temps as 39C is only 10C above water temp in my tests which isn't that bad and is what I average which is better than most. And that is with accurate temps monitoring which most do not have. [sarcasm] Thanks for buying from a company that rips off other peoples ideas without asking them. Your support is noted and you poor reply with lack of real proof of your temps will always get people behind you. And thanks for pointing out that overlapped channels is not a bad thing that shows lots of proof that you have a clue. How many blocks have you made and tested?[/sarcasm]

03-31-2002, 02:34 PM	#136
Spleener Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5	No Im not in anyway associated with CPUfx. I know they have posed as reviewers in the past and thats lame. Im not saying the company is without flaw.. They pissed me off when they shipped the block to me 2 weeks late. BUT Im tired of seeing reviews on this whole topic with no data and blanket statements that are based on tradition and feeling and not on hard science. I guess the fact that the Z4 scored a good review in a reputable evaluation doesnt count. Being that, it doesnt matter how good a block CPUfx makes you and others are going to ignore the facts. Bias is huge problem with anykind of interpretation. I really cant rub your noses in the data anymore than I have already, I have better things to do..

03-31-2002, 02:41 PM	#137
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	so? just buy the same block from jaydee at 40% of the och price, you'll get it quicker, and it will be much better quality __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-31-2002, 02:43 PM	#138
Spleener Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5	THATS AN OPTION! Im not recommending people buy from this company.. I am mearly saying the latest Z4 block is not "trash" BUT AGAIN "much better quality" Thats EXACTLY what im talking about. I guess its hopeless.. LOOK In engineering, you cant simply say "its better" We use benchmarks, and STUDIES, to produce data, then we compare. I give up

03-31-2002, 02:47 PM	#139
Spleener Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5	and oh.. I hate to ramble on.. But the fact that Jaydee is selling a similiar block really SHEDS LIGHT on his stance.. I completely understand now whats going on.. No no bias there!! lol Ok guys.. I get the picture.. It all makes sense now. No need for me to continue this debate I can tell its a no winner given this new revelation.

03-31-2002, 02:49 PM	#140
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	yeah, he made it, then they copied him __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-31-2002, 09:12 PM	#142
jbe Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: illinois Posts: 24	sure you guys are talking about the same block? OCH doesn't even have that copper based Z4 on the site anymore. now they have a block that is silver colored, supposedly made of aluminum, copper, and silver, still called the Z4, even though it's totally different. here's the link, look at the pics on the bottom of the page https://www.overclockershideout.com/...tegory_Code=WB

03-31-2002, 09:31 PM	#144
jbe Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: illinois Posts: 24	sorry i didn't read through all 6 pages, my bad. just gotta laugh about that copy of theirs. that's pathetic, lol

03-31-2002, 10:50 PM	#145
Highvoltagepc Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: USA Posts: 50	och The point i think people are trying to make is - that it dont make sense that they (och) would put all that cnc work into a block ,just to have the water go over the top of all of the inner channels,instead of staying in the channels.wtf....it does go back to not using common sense... removing the maze of channels yielded better temps than their original design!so the original block is a waste of potential,-as far as my standards go (and obviously the rest of the industry's standards also) And now they try to redeem them selves by copying a design that has been shown to the public eye quite some time ago by fixittt,and selling it as thier own...sheesh, why cant people come up with their own ideas- -and on that review of the z4 at o/c's,it doesnt seem like the same block they are currently selling or is it? the top pic in the review is one with a copper base ,shouldered into an aluminum top,the second and third pics show a completely differant base with no copper and no shoulder,so what block is it that got a review,im confused! __________________ DFI LANPARTY~Socket A....GEFORCE 6800 GT OC at Ultra speeds,Upgrade time again....

03-31-2002, 11:17 PM	#146
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	I am sorry, but OCH could make a waterblock that on its own cooled a chip as well as a phase change system and I still wouldnt buy it. have you seen how he has **ed people on his own forums and others? have you seen OCH's track record of crap customer serivce and customer strong arming? Maybe you dig a company that will look for ANY way to screw you out of support for the product you buy ( just use water wetter and see), but I dont dig scam's like that. regardless of how good a Z4 is, I would recomend going with a company that isnt out of shaft its customers. Of course you could see this on their forum... err never mind they delete out anything that could be considered a complaint. __________________ Joe** - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

04-01-2002, 12:20 AM	#147
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	yeah, they pimped the Z4, saw that someone made it twice as good, basically made a new block with the same old top, they should have called it the Z5, but all the old blow job reviews stil exist, so they had to keep the name. notice how their site mentions NOTHING of the changes __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

04-01-2002, 12:35 AM	#148
Psychotic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: currently in hiding after a recent escape from the psychiatric ward of a local hospital Posts: 69	Isn't there some kind of better business bureau that we could report these jerk-offs to? :shrug: __________________ I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.

04-01-2002, 01:08 AM	#149
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	the military their address is on their website, just cruise down and attack them __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

04-03-2002, 01:12 AM	#150
ghogman Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 26	after all of this talk about the block, what about the pump used in the kit, is it good? and the radiator?

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