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10-10-2003, 06:18 AM | #26 | |
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Re: Re: Some results
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It would be fairly easy to add the Rins factor to the spreadsheet. Also, with the spreadsheet, Rins could be setup to use an 'alternate ambient' (e.g. motherboard temperature) enabling more accurate modeling in that respect than Kryotherm. |
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10-10-2003, 08:39 AM | #27 |
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no hurry pHaestus, keep it as long as you can extract more data from it
but hey, insulate all of the coldside loop ! |
10-10-2003, 08:43 AM | #28 | |
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Re: Some results
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Poser!!!! hehehe
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10-10-2003, 09:02 AM | #29 |
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re the monstrosity:
we had the GM of a rather large co in last week and after a half hour of looking over my 2 rooms of equipment with its rat's nest of cables and hoses going back and forth between the rooms and equipment racks and setup table, he said: "Very good, very good. This is most practical. Just as when I visit Professors in universities, not new and fancy equipment but the correct equipment with wires running everywhere. Not like big companies with $250,000 in equipment form which they admit they have only 70% accuracy." pHaestus' test setup is not so bad really the MCW-CHILL is a bear to connect up the room was warming up, lol |
10-10-2003, 10:10 AM | #30 |
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Les:
When I fire it up tonight I will get some rad in and out and hot side water temperatures too. No biggie. I have a couple more water and air probes for the DIgitec. I still want to measure the CPU backside temperature as well. Bill I didn't insulate it because I was using straight water in the coldside loop. I did this because it was such a pita to fill and I otherwise would have bee sucking down lots of glycol :/ I was most impressed by the SPEED at which it drops in temp (if you have resolution to watch it). Speaking of which, I don't think KnightElite was suitably impressed by the fact that my two digitec probes read exactly the same temperature (0.01C res). |
10-10-2003, 10:43 AM | #31 | |
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Quote:
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10-10-2003, 11:48 AM | #32 | |
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Quote:
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10-10-2003, 11:49 AM | #33 |
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Yes, the accuracy of the digitech probes is indeed impressive .
Unfortunately, I won't be able to come back this weekend, since I'm going to visit my parents. Looking forward to seeing more numbers though .
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10-10-2003, 11:59 AM | #34 | |
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Quote:
Bob
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Sarcasm is yet another of the free services we offer! |
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10-10-2003, 06:54 PM | #35 | |
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Re: Re: Re: Some results
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For limited no of calcs I resort to iteration. My own interests moved on from TECs via Water to Air. I do not think I would be very active in the further developent of TEC simulations. |
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10-14-2003, 11:03 AM | #37 |
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Not TOO much to report. Some issues with digital pressure gauge; still ironing that out. I added antifreeze and insulation and can get -7 to -8C water without PC running. I epoxied a DOW sensor onto the base of the TBredB last night; I'll reinstall and see if I can get some higher resolution numbers tonight. Here's a couple of pictures:
http://www.procooling.com/users/phae.../coldwater.jpg http://www.procooling.com/users/phae.../insulated.jpg I have to get more insulation on the res still. I was having problems with water freezing in the chiller (hence the antifreeze) and was using the res to see the movement of water to the pump. It takes a WHILE for the system to reach steady state; no hotside water or rad air in and out temps yet. Hopefully with CPU installed tonight I can get at least a single "open flow" set of temps to post. |
10-16-2003, 02:27 PM | #38 |
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Some preliminary temperatures from last night:
CPU diode is taken from motherboard (1C increments ) CPU back is a DOW sensor epoxied under the center of the CPU. I noticed that this temperature was MUCH higher than the diode temp and so I also collected temp from a DOW sensor taped onto the back of the motherboard behind the socket area. Mobo back is this temp. Note that it is higher than the temp of the probe on the CPU; this suggests to me that all the mosfets and circuitry powering the system results in a seriously bad reading for those epoxying probes onto chips or (worse) using the in socket thermistor). WB top is a DOW sensor on the top of the waterblock itself. Rad air in and out are obviously the intake and exhaust sides of the radiator, and hotside water is the water temp of the hot loop. Full flow set of data is with the chiller loop "wide open" while the 1/2 flow set are with a ball valve turned to a 45 degree angle. Sorry no flow rates yet; issues with the digital pressure gauge preclude them. Still fiddling with that. Based on die - ambient numbers I would estimate a TBredB at 2.0V 2200MHz to be putting out ~ 60 real W. That's using Bill's numbers here: http://www.swiftnets.com/products/MCWCHILL-452.asp I will set up a range of Mhz tonight hopefully. |
10-16-2003, 02:36 PM | #39 |
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Wow pH
DOW interference from the surrounding hardware? Thats wild.
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10-16-2003, 02:39 PM | #40 |
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no no no. Not interference. HEAT. The motherboard is substantially hotter than the CPU, and so the probe epoxied on backside is not very representative.
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10-16-2003, 02:57 PM | #41 |
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Hmmm could be the whole... insulation properties of glass epoxy wafers, and a plastic socket. Since the core is actively cooled all the secondary heat just collects and heats up the mobo and socket... but still... weird...
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10-16-2003, 03:02 PM | #42 |
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Excellent.
Initial thoughts: Delta T chiller(Hotwater - Coldwater)= 31.5c For DeltaTchiller = 31.5c , Bill had an imput of (80w + Pump + Insulation gains). So suspect your Total Imput would be similar. Guess would be 80w from CPU (Includes Insulation(Secondary Heat) gains from motherboard)* Will bore you further as I digest this and subsequent data. * This is not far removed from a CPU Heat of 50w and Ri=1c/w (to MB at 31c) ....... EDIT Last edited by Les; 10-16-2003 at 03:15 PM. |
10-16-2003, 03:18 PM | #43 |
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Les that number seems a bit closer to what I would expect based upon aircooling and water cooling temperatures with same chip (known C/W values then).
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10-16-2003, 03:24 PM | #44 | |
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10-16-2003, 04:50 PM | #45 |
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correcting for the inlet air temp diff, it would seem that the lower flow rate is more effective
but the discrepancies in some number sets preclude that conclusion comments pHaestus ? |
10-16-2003, 05:14 PM | #46 | |
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Quote:
Unless have my silly head on:- High flow gives more cooling : delta T( Air in - cpu) is 0.53c larger. Relative to chilled water it also gives better cooling(smaller "C/W") : delta T(CPU- water) is 0.7c smaller. However all are within the 1c resolution of the Diode measuring. comments pHaestus ? |
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10-16-2003, 05:43 PM | #47 |
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I was operating under the assumption that a lower cpu to ambient or cpu to chilled water differential meant more cooling (CPU is closer to room temp or water temp when the delta T decreases). That presents a problem though: How can the delta T for CPU-air respond in a different direction to flow rates than the delta T for CPU-water?
I really need an old throwaway motherboard so I can get tolerable diode readings again. Will see if it is possible to resurrect my KT133A board again tonight. |
10-16-2003, 06:24 PM | #48 |
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would suspect equilibrium
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10-16-2003, 06:28 PM | #49 |
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A likely culprit. The dual pelts are dumping a LOT of heat into my room; I ran the system for several hours last night but perhaps it still wasn't enough. It's getting to cold to open a window, but I can scrounge up some box fans and point em at the setup tonight at least.
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10-16-2003, 06:39 PM | #50 | |
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Quote:
There is a "minus sign"(-) for the differential between CPU and "air in". Last edited by Les; 10-16-2003 at 07:10 PM. |
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