Type of copper

JSealy00 · 09-27-2003, 01:25 AM

I was just wondering if there is a stardard alloy of copper that is preferred, or if copper is copper. I am looking into making a waterblock for a design class and need to specify which type of copper I am going to use....

Boli · 09-27-2003, 03:02 AM

The purer the copprer the better the heat transfer so people try to use metal with the most amount of copper in. The copper people seem to use most is about 99.9% pure copper with the rest made up from small oxidation of the surface area.

Though to make the "best" you'll need silver (also pure).

I know of no "super alloy" that conducts heat better than copper(or silver).

Hope this helps

~ Boli

siavash_s_s · 09-27-2003, 03:05 AM

copper c110 busbar is generally what ive been hearing people use. btw if anyone in sydney knows where to obtain this PLZ pm me

Archmage · 10-01-2003, 02:34 AM

super alloy?

cusil ? look that up maybe...not quite a viable option though

Gooserider · 10-19-2003, 09:37 PM

According to the place that I get my copper from, (Admiral Metals Surplus Outlet in Woburn, MA) There are two types of copper that are normally encountered. Regular Copper is very high purity, but contains a certain low amount of Oxygen in the metal's crystaline structure. "Oxygen Free" copper is made under special environmental conditions, and does not have the disolved Oxygen, but is significantly more expensive. The O2 free stuff is needed for certain specialized applications (I think I remember nuclear reactors, and certain types of chemical processing equipment)

From a thermal standpoint, the difference between them is supposed to be negligible.

The Cu/Ag alloy Archmage was mentioning has been discussed many times before. I forget the exact numbers but the important thing is that it is WORSE than plain copper by a significant margin (though slightly better than Al)

Thus Ag is still the theoretical best, though not by enough to really justify it's cost. It is followed closely by Cu, with Al a distant 3rd.

Gooserider

hydrogen18 · 10-20-2003, 06:35 PM

I know that cooling these metals to extremely low tempatures has the obvious advantage of coolign the cpu significantly also but do these materials become thermal superconductors just like they become electrical superconductors at extremely low temps?

8-Ball · 10-20-2003, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Archmage
super alloy?

cusil ? look that up maybe...not quite a viable option though

CuSil actually turned out to be a bit of a failure, since it ended up with a lower conductivity than pure copper. The original tests were flawed in their method, raising peoples hopes.

In most cases, alloys, even of two highly conductive metals tend not to have a very high conductivity, at least relative to that of its constituents.

8-ball

8-Ball · 10-20-2003, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hydrogen18
I know that cooling these metals to extremely low tempatures has the obvious advantage of coolign the cpu significantly also but do these materials become thermal superconductors just like they become electrical superconductors at extremely low temps?

Which materials. It is not all materials which superconduct at low temperatures. My research group is working on MgBO High temperature superconductors at the moment, but even they are only superconducting at very low temperatures, and that is about as simple as superconductors go, as far as composition.

8-ball

Gooserider · 10-20-2003, 10:00 PM

Quote:

hydrogen18:
I know that cooling these metals to extremely low tempatures has the obvious advantage of coolign the cpu significantly also but do these materials become thermal superconductors just like they become electrical superconductors at extremely low temps?

I don't think there would be any such thing as a 'thermal superconductor' - to become a superconductor (w/ todays technology) requires that the material be very cold - adding heat would make it to hot to be a superconductor....

It's hardly relevant to Computer Cooling at any rate, as the temps involved are far lower than anything even a radical cooler is going to be able to reach reasonably.

(I also could be mistaken, but I would expect that the conductivity changes at those temps might cause the CPU etc. to operate in non-acceptable ways...)

Gooserider

]JR[ · 10-21-2003, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gooserider
I don't think there would be any such thing as a 'thermal superconductor' - to become a superconductor (w/ todays technology) requires that the material be very cold - adding heat would make it to hot to be a superconductor....

As temperature goes down (in metals) thermal conductivity (generally) goes up, its the same effect that increases electrical conductivity (reducing resistance) at lower temps simply becasue the lattice vibrations (heat) are reduced allowing free passage of electrons (reducing resistance) it also increases thermal conductivity since the lattice is more susceptible conducting heat (think diamond - perfect stable lattice, great thermal conductivity)

But the impracticalties youve already mentioned, to get a noticeable increase in thermal conductivity you need a large drop in temps, larger than the average overclocker can produce...

]JR[

hydrogen18 · 10-22-2003, 07:32 PM

I presume these "lattive vibrations" get smaller and less violent because of the fact that time slows down at lower tempatures?

jaydee · 10-22-2003, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hydrogen18
time slows down at lower tempatures?

Humm, does this mean if I move to antartica I will live longer or walk slower?

superart · 10-23-2003, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
Humm, does this mean if I move to antartica I will live longer or walk slower?

yes you will walk slower, but no you wont live longer.

Polar bears love human

And the fact that your walking slow just makes it all the easier for them

]JR[ · 10-23-2003, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hydrogen18
I presume these "lattive vibrations" get smaller and less violent because of the fact that time slows down at lower tempatures?

sigh...

were in a forum about overclocking and cooling, the main concept why chip run faster when cooler is to do with lattice vibrations in the semiconductor...

not sure if I can be bothered with this forum, too many llamas...

]JR[

MMZ_TimeLord · 10-23-2003, 10:02 AM

hydrogen,

TIME does NOT slow down... the vibration or agitation level of molecules however does. This gives an overall appearance that everything is slowing down. Just not time.

Time is constant unless you are approaching the speed of light. At this point it becomes a relative comparison...

Back on topic: 99.9% pure copper is what I've been using as well. Works just fine.

I have not had the opportunity (read: money) to spend on trying out the same blocks with Silver.

09-27-2003, 01:25 AM	#1
JSealy00 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Holland, MI Posts: 3	Type of copper I was just wondering if there is a stardard alloy of copper that is preferred, or if copper is copper. I am looking into making a waterblock for a design class and need to specify which type of copper I am going to use....

09-27-2003, 03:02 AM	#2
Boli Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackburn / Dundee Posts: 451	The purer the copprer the better the heat transfer so people try to use metal with the most amount of copper in. The copper people seem to use most is about 99.9% pure copper with the rest made up from small oxidation of the surface area. Though to make the "best" you'll need silver (also pure). I know of no "super alloy" that conducts heat better than copper(or silver). Hope this helps ~ Boli __________________ 1800+ @ 2247 (214x10.5) - STABLE, 512MB PC3700 TwinX Cosair RAM, NF7-S v2.0, GeForce3 Ti200 Parallel BIM, 120.1 Thermochill, Eheim 1048, Maze 3, Maze4 GPU, "Z" chipset, 1/2" tubing, PC-70: 5x120mm & 9x80mm fans. Internet Server & second machine (folding 24/7): 512MB DDR RAM, XP2000+

09-27-2003, 03:05 AM	#3
siavash_s_s Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: here n there Posts: 194	copper c110 busbar is generally what ive been hearing people use. btw if anyone in sydney knows where to obtain this PLZ pm me __________________ buy me a mill

10-19-2003, 09:37 PM	#5
Gooserider Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North Billerica, MA, USA Posts: 451	According to the place that I get my copper from, (Admiral Metals Surplus Outlet in Woburn, MA) There are two types of copper that are normally encountered. Regular Copper is very high purity, but contains a certain low amount of Oxygen in the metal's crystaline structure. "Oxygen Free" copper is made under special environmental conditions, and does not have the disolved Oxygen, but is significantly more expensive. The O2 free stuff is needed for certain specialized applications (I think I remember nuclear reactors, and certain types of chemical processing equipment) From a thermal standpoint, the difference between them is supposed to be negligible. The Cu/Ag alloy Archmage was mentioning has been discussed many times before. I forget the exact numbers but the important thing is that it is WORSE than plain copper by a significant margin (though slightly better than Al) Thus Ag is still the theoretical best, though not by enough to really justify it's cost. It is followed closely by Cu, with Al a distant 3rd. Gooserider __________________ Designing system, will have Tyan S2468UGN Dual Athlon MOBO, SCSI HDDS, other goodies. Will run LINUX only. Want to have silent running, minimal fans, and water cooled. Probably not OC'c

10-23-2003, 10:02 AM	#15
MMZ_TimeLord Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 433	hydrogen, TIME does NOT slow down... the vibration or agitation level of molecules however does. This gives an overall appearance that everything is slowing down. Just not time. Time is constant unless you are approaching the speed of light. At this point it becomes a relative comparison... Back on topic: 99.9% pure copper is what I've been using as well. Works just fine. I have not had the opportunity (read: money) to spend on trying out the same blocks with Silver. __________________ MMZ>TimeLord "Oooooooooh... that's gonna leave a mark!"

10-01-2003, 02:34 AM	#4
Archmage Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California Posts: 12	super alloy? cusil ? look that up maybe...not quite a viable option though

10-20-2003, 06:35 PM	#6
hydrogen18 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 248	I know that cooling these metals to extremely low tempatures has the obvious advantage of coolign the cpu significantly also but do these materials become thermal superconductors just like they become electrical superconductors at extremely low temps?

10-22-2003, 07:32 PM	#11
hydrogen18 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 248	I presume these "lattive vibrations" get smaller and less violent because of the fact that time slows down at lower tempatures?

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