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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 06-02-2002, 05:29 AM   #51
morphling1
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MAD, I follow your progress, and I'm very impressed, this water block will definetly perform great, the idea behind the design is great
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Unread 06-02-2002, 10:35 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by gone_fishin
No leaks
If you set your pump outlet at the same level as the block inlet, you can measure the flow rate, and calculate the pressure drop.
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Unread 06-02-2002, 12:53 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigben2k


If you set your pump outlet at the same level as the block inlet, you can measure the flow rate, and calculate the pressure drop.
I do not understand exactly what you describe. Do you mean the same pysical level or the same inlet and outlet area? I understand by doing the math that four 1/4" inside diameter barbs equal the same as one 1/2" inside diameter barb, which is what is in my last post. So inlet and outlet should be equal. Maybe I'll hook it up to my garden hose outside and measure how long it takes to fill a five gallon pail, would this give a semi accurate flow rate figure? What is the maximum achievable flow rate through a 1/2" diameter tube? I read somewhere that it is 300 gph for a 3/8" I.D. tube, is this correct? Does anyone have a quick link that describes doing these calculations, flow rate and pressure drop? Thanks for the input.
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Unread 06-02-2002, 01:10 PM   #54
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Ok here's what I did as a quick test. I measured out five liters in a bucket and timed how long it took for the hose from the shower head to fill it up, it took twenty seconds. Then I connected the waterblock and it took the same amount of time, no discernable difference but this was predictable. All this tells me is the flow rate at my showerhead in my bathroom and that the block is not restricting flow, am I correct?
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Unread 06-03-2002, 12:46 AM   #55
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I'll look into the flow rate later and get a handle on it. I made up a quick res, that's vinyl in the pic. The vinyl seems flexible until you put it together and notice the stiffness, I will definately be getting some silicon tubing.
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Unread 06-03-2002, 01:07 AM   #56
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good grief, how many outlets does that top have?? LOL!

-------------------------- some res Q's: ----------------------------------
1) what did you make ur res out of.
2) how did you cut it.
3) did you make sure it was perfectly flat / square? did you just sand it down, or was it precisely cut with a table saw or...?
4) what did you use to glue it together?
5) did you use special bits to drill the holes out?
6) did you tap the holes?
7) how did you seal the barbs that you put into the res?
8) WHATS 3461 * 5234(221 + 245) / 34!???

lol
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Unread 06-03-2002, 01:38 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cyco-Dude
good grief, how many outlets does that top have?? LOL!

-------------------------- some res Q's: ----------------------------------
1) what did you make ur res out of.
2) how did you cut it.
3) did you make sure it was perfectly flat / square? did you just sand it down, or was it precisely cut with a table saw or...?
4) what did you use to glue it together?
5) did you use special bits to drill the holes out?
6) did you tap the holes?
7) how did you seal the barbs that you put into the res?
8) WHATS 3461 * 5234(221 + 245) / 34!???

lol
1)1/4" plexi
2)table saw
3)sized to fit in two hard drive bay slots. Edges rabbitted out on table saw by eye. It took 15 minutes to cut all pieces. Used a square on flat surface.
4)Gel style super glue with heavy beads of 100% silicone caulk applied on all joint corners inside except top.
5)just a paddle bit in the drill press
6)yes, pipe tap
7) heavy wrap of teflon plumbers tape to barbs
8)248280331.88235294117647058823529(don't quote me on this one)

Still need to make a fill opening in top.
Here's one with even more outlets
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Unread 06-03-2002, 08:54 AM   #58
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ISP Weld-On #16 Cement works great on plexi too.

Last edited by SCompRacer; 06-03-2002 at 03:42 PM.
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Unread 06-03-2002, 09:12 AM   #59
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Thanks for the linkage
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Unread 06-03-2002, 10:56 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by gone_fishin


I do not understand exactly what you describe. Do you mean the same pysical level or the same inlet and outlet area? I understand by doing the math that four 1/4" inside diameter barbs equal the same as one 1/2" inside diameter barb, which is what is in my last post. So inlet and outlet should be equal. Maybe I'll hook it up to my garden hose outside and measure how long it takes to fill a five gallon pail, would this give a semi accurate flow rate figure? What is the maximum achievable flow rate through a 1/2" diameter tube? I read somewhere that it is 300 gph for a 3/8" I.D. tube, is this correct? Does anyone have a quick link that describes doing these calculations, flow rate and pressure drop? Thanks for the input.
I just meant pump and inlet at same level.

The interesting thing about your design is that the overall flow restriction could be calculated (roughly) as the equivalent of 2 90D bends (aka 1 180D bend.)

I had a similar idea to yours, but I was thinking about a 3/8 or 1/2 inlet, surrounded by a 1 3/4 outlet, the idea being that the less flow restriction would result in a better flow rate, and better performance. I just can't figure out how to thread the 1 3/4... (see morphlings wb thread)

There's not really a limit to flow rate through a 1/2 pipe, it's just that a higher flow rate induces a bigger pressure, which gets to a point where it becomes impractical. a high enough pressure would freeze the water.

I've done some reading on this, and it seems that the drop should be kept under 10 psi (pressured water systems notwithstanding), regardless of tube size, because it becomes an efficiency issue. For our purposes, and for the flow rates that I have seen used here, 3/8 ID is good enough for a low flow rig, and 1/2 is ideal for the higher range of flow rates we all use.

So to test your system, just use your pump (because you know what kind of GPH you can achieve with it).

Here's the calculation:
Assuming that your block's flow restriction is equivalent to 2 90D bends (aka a single 180 bend) and that your tubing is 1/2" ID.

pressure drop of 1/2" tubing, per 100 feet at 3gpm: 5.7 psi
pressure drop of 90D, 1/2" elbow, in equivalent feet of straight piping: 1 foot

5.7 / 100 * 2= .1 psi

.1 psi is equal to about 3 inches of head, so it shouldn't throw off your flow rate too much.

Just measure the time it takes to fill a bucket.

Last edited by bigben2k; 06-03-2002 at 11:38 AM.
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Unread 06-04-2002, 05:17 AM   #61
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I'm loving your work more and more with each pic, hurry up and get some temps
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Unread 06-04-2002, 07:41 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by gone_fishin
Ok here's what I did as a quick test. I measured out five liters in a bucket and timed how long it took for the hose from the shower head to fill it up, it took twenty seconds. Then I connected the waterblock and it took the same amount of time, no discernable difference but this was predictable. All this tells me is the flow rate at my showerhead in my bathroom and that the block is not restricting flow, am I correct?
Well your block does restrict flow (every block does). It's just a question of how much.

Ok, so you tested 5L/20sec.

3.76L / US gallon, so 1.33 gal, over 20 sec, so 4GPM, or 240 GPH.

It would have been nice to see the time difference, then we could confirm the theoretical drop of 0.1 psi. I guess you'd have to test it over a few gallons of water (must be a pretty good block!)

After all that, you can measure the performance!!!
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Unread 06-06-2002, 12:10 AM   #63
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I ordered a really high power pump for testing,Here
It will be here next week.
I also have designed a block on the same concept that will work with AMD or P4 to test too.
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Unread 06-06-2002, 09:47 AM   #64
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Holy pump, Batman!
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Unread 06-06-2002, 05:05 PM   #65
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Isnt that pump just a LITTLE bit of an overkill?
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Unread 06-06-2002, 05:08 PM   #66
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It may be but that's the point
I need to find the optimal flow rate going through my block, the cutoff point where further flow gives no further gains using a specific sized radiator and fan configuration.
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Unread 06-06-2002, 05:27 PM   #67
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Ok, but 724 gph@ 4 feet?!? (Hold on to something!)

How are you going to measure the different flow rates? Here's an idea: Install a ball valve (after the pump) and take measurements for the complete rig. Mark the different positions on the valve. Then mount the rig in your system, and refer back to the markings (Not terribly accurate, but should work).
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Unread 06-06-2002, 05:30 PM   #68
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quiet ones are known for being one of the best pumps on the marine market. that is a good price for that pump too. bit of overkill but good choice. just use a ball valve to adjust the flow.
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Unread 06-06-2002, 07:35 PM   #69
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That rating is for a one inch outlet at four feet. A half inch outlet should reduce it's output at four feet. Am I on the right track in thinking this?
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Unread 06-06-2002, 08:06 PM   #70
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heh heh heh, or it will make it more, kind of like putting a nozzle on a garden hose

you're in for a treat the first time you fire that up in your bathroom

lmao
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Unread 06-06-2002, 08:19 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by gone_fishin
That rating is for a one inch outlet at four feet. A half inch outlet should reduce it's output at four feet. Am I on the right track in thinking this?
Not quite...

4 feet is the head or height at which it will still spurt out 7xx gph. Reducing the tube size only increases the pressure...
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Unread 06-06-2002, 10:00 PM   #72
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Ok, the head will raise but how many gph at four feet would it put out? Are you suggesting that the flow rate would increase at four feet? If the outlet diameter is decreased the pressure would increase, that is for certain but the flow rate won't increase it should actually decrease, correct?
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Unread 06-07-2002, 09:26 AM   #73
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Well, the flow rate will decrease, but it's so insignificant, that it's barely worth mentioning.

Let's keep something in mind here: the pump has a maximum head rating (which we don't know) which is the height of a 1" column of water that is so high, that it creates too much pressure for the pump to handle. It's the point where the flow rate drops to zero gph.

That being said... most of the pumps used by most people here, will reach that maximum head somewhere between 10 and 20 feet.

Yours could reach that maximum somewhere around 80 feet.

About feet: this mystical water column creates pressure from its weight, at the bottom (that's why it's so dang hard to pump water to the top of the empire state building). This "head" can be translated into psi. Here's how:

1 Pascal=.004 inches of water
1 psi=6895 Pascals

so 1 psi = 27.6 inches of water (2.3 feet).

if your pump's max head is 80 feet, then the maximum pressure it can handle is: 34.8 psi. That's about the same pressure as in a car tire.

Tubing is most efficient between 5 and 8 psi.

Psi at 20 feet: 8.7 psi. Most people achieve a flow rate between 50 and 150 gph.

I'll wait for your reply before I go on.
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Unread 06-07-2002, 07:20 PM   #74
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Wow, I should probably get the vacume rated tubing with heavy sidewalls?
One very good thing is when the testing is done I will be able to set up the pump and rad in the basement for absolute zero noise at my computer
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Unread 06-07-2002, 07:26 PM   #75
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A preview of my AMD block in the aluminum model stage
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