Marijuana-what is it good for? :0

[superart]

Originally Posted by unregistered

which religion ?
why is that one better than another one ? or none ?

you are a bigot
look it up

and a fool to persist in bigotry

I think what kronchevc is trying to say, in his own less-than-tactfull way, is that when you take all the good things that have come as a result of riligion, compared to all the bad things, the bad things far outweigh the good.

[psychofunk]

Originally Posted by unregistered

which religion ?
why is that one better than another one ? or none ?

you are a bigot
look it up

and a fool to persist in bigotry

Maybe you should reread my post because I never said any religion was better than any other. There is what I believe and works for me and then there is what works for you or the next man. I don't call you mindless for not believing and I do not try to change what another man believes whether it be Budda, Hari Krisna, Assholism or Swiftech. Also, my comment is for more then just you as I hear this God/mindless crap every time religion comes up in a forum.

Bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices (Mirriam/Webster)

You may want to take a look in the mirror.

[arken420]

Here's my two cents about marijuana:

First off Dow Chemicals is the reason we outlawed it in the first place. Dow had come up with a wonderful new way of processing wood pulp into paper, but was having a hard time competing against local hemp growers, so they got their lobbysts up to Capital Hill and got a law passed making Marijuana a controlled substance. No one actually told anyone that marijuana was actually hemp, so it passed with no resistance, and then all of a sudden task force teams burned fields and arrested these evil hemp growers. That pisses me off the most. Dow's process has damaged people, and our environment, more than any pop smoker, not crack-whore, has. If I had a few million dollars to throw into a decent advertising campaign for marijuana, I bet I could get some new laws passed. Maybe not having it sold next to the Marlboros or Camels, but atleast we could go back to hemp paper and stop cutting down all the trees...

Secondly, does anyone remeber Reefer Madness? It's a little propaganda film from the 40-50s that portrayed marijuana as a dangerous drug that made you kill people and act completely out-of-control. I'm sure that even alcohol, under the right circumstances and with the right mind, could cause a person to act out and become enraged. The problem is not nessisarily(sp?) with the drug, but the chemical make-up of the person involved. Just as an upper might have a totally different effect on one person than another, any drug can invoke different responses from different people. For me marijuana doesn't cause me to act out and kill people at random, it helps me sleep at night, and sometimes I'll lite up after a hard day at work. I use it responibily(sp?), and no one I haven't wanted even knows I do it. No one has ever seen me smoke without knowing what I was going to do before hand.

Lets stop blaming drugs for people's failures. If someone ruins their life and they happen to do drugs, then ask yourself if the drugs were really the root of the problem. Understanding why some people fall apart when it comes to addictive drugs, not marijuana, could lead us to a better treatment for them, but locking them away, or putting them into a position that they end up killing themselves won't solve a thing.

The problem with this whole debate is that people, as a society, shun whatever isn't in the majority, period. Since we all don't smoke, then no one should. Ask someone who doesn't drink what his views on prohabition were, or talk to a vegitarian about meat.

[Etacovda]

Arken - totally agree; the problem isnt neccarily with the substances.


"On your best day you could not be as diligent, compassonate, considerate & focused as a true believer"

I find that insulting - because I dont believe there is a god, I don't have a chance to be as good as one that does? That sir, is biggoted. I suggest you take the foot out of their "a$$'s" and put in your mouth.

Killernoodle : "The simple fact is that people like me will end up paying for people that live unhealthy lifestyles, whether we like it or not and that, my friend, is what is wrong with this country. Ideally, people should pay for their own medicare and have that part of the taxes removed. Medicare is too much of a socialist idea and penalizes the healthy people more than the unhealthy."

Honestly, this is full of inexperience. Or perhaps I'm not overly familiar with how it all works over there.
Fine, lets say tomorrow, through no fault of your own, you develop heart and liver problems, through a natural condition. The cost is 60,000 for transplants. You cant afford it. You die. Hows that justice for you? Well, its your own justice...

You're American, right? Thats the EXACT view that a lot of people outside of your country see of it - capitalism is just going too far in your country. Through no fault of all the people, but from people like you who think in that manner.

Because someone isnt healthy, they shouldnt have a chance to live their lives? Because someone isn't well off, they should die? I'll take a stab in the dark and say your parents are well off. I come from a poor family, and with your scheme health care, both my mother and father would be dead; some times, life isn't good to people, and no matter what they do, they can't change that. They shouldnt be punished.

----

As far as legalisation goes, I'm against it. If you want to risk it, and do it, then fine, go ahead. Perhaps the punishments could be a bit on the softer side, but as it is, you're not going to stop anyone.

I believe that alcohol is a worse drug, along with tobacco. Much worse. Its blatently obvious how many problems stem from smoking and alcohol abuse; yet people still blame dope for the issues of society. Anyone thats actually been open enough to try it (yes, I have - not my cup of tea, but then, neither is drinking) will realise what kind of drug it is, and how it could effect certain people.

On a side note - what about advertising and society? should society be blamed for anorexia, obesity etc?

[pHaestus]

fuel to the fire

[psychofunk]

Originally Posted by Etacovda

"On your best day you could not be as diligent, compassonate, considerate & focused as a true believer"

I find that insulting - because I dont believe there is a god, I don't have a chance to be as good as one that does? That sir, is biggoted.

Maybe there I let anger get the best of me, but you are missing the point of my initial post and that is to say just a you do not like to hear that you cannot be as good as someone else just because you don't believe, I don't like to be told I am mindless just because I do believe. It's a matter of mutual respect and consideration of others, right?

[HAL-9000]

Originally Posted by Etacovda

Arken - totally agree; the problem isnt neccarily with the substances.


"On your best day you could not be as diligent, compassonate, considerate & focused as a true believer"

I find that insulting - because I dont believe there is a god, I don't have a chance to be as good as one that does? That sir, is biggoted. I suggest you take the foot out of their "a$$'s" and put in your mouth.

Killernoodle : "The simple fact is that people like me will end up paying for people that live unhealthy lifestyles, whether we like it or not and that, my friend, is what is wrong with this country. Ideally, people should pay for their own medicare and have that part of the taxes removed. Medicare is too much of a socialist idea and penalizes the healthy people more than the unhealthy."

Honestly, this is full of inexperience. Or perhaps I'm not overly familiar with how it all works over there.
Fine, lets say tomorrow, through no fault of your own, you develop heart and liver problems, through a natural condition. The cost is 60,000 for transplants. You cant afford it. You die. Hows that justice for you? Well, its your own justice...

You're American, right? Thats the EXACT view that a lot of people outside of your country see of it - capitalism is just going too far in your country. Through no fault of all the people, but from people like you who think in that manner.

Because someone isnt healthy, they shouldnt have a chance to live their lives? Because someone isn't well off, they should die? I'll take a stab in the dark and say your parents are well off. I come from a poor family, and with your scheme health care, both my mother and father would be dead; some times, life isn't good to people, and no matter what they do, they can't change that. They shouldnt be punished.

----

As far as legalisation goes, I'm against it. If you want to risk it, and do it, then fine, go ahead. Perhaps the punishments could be a bit on the softer side, but as it is, you're not going to stop anyone.

I believe that alcohol is a worse drug, along with tobacco. Much worse. Its blatently obvious how many problems stem from smoking and alcohol abuse; yet people still blame dope for the issues of society. Anyone thats actually been open enough to try it (yes, I have - not my cup of tea, but then, neither is drinking) will realise what kind of drug it is, and how it could effect certain people.

On a side note - what about advertising and society? should society be blamed for anorexia, obesity etc?

In regards to arrogance, I agree with you. To assume someone is in possesion of better character because they try hard to live up to their fairy tale versus someone who doesn't buy into fairy tales to begin with, is arrogant.

But in regards to socialism in society, I am against it. Goverments are the most ethically craven institutions in existence. Corporations can be considered evil sure, but they do not aim nuclear weapons at each other, imprison and murder people they don't agree with, or committ genocide. Those evils are all exclusive to goverments.

Goverments are also the most fiscally irresponsible institutions. There is not one goverment in the world today that is not "deficit spending." Which is a snazzy word for taking out loans. The U.S. Goverment does it today, and our debt has exploded since 1971, primarily because of socialist programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and the collapse of financial solvency in Social Security. In the U.S., there is coming a day of reckoning with these bills, and it will happen before 2020. These programs will collapse, and we will rid ourselves of them when we have no other choice. The U.S. will have to face reality on these debts, as every goverment eventually does. Usually when a goverment goes belly up like that, society falls apart. Fortunately the U.S. is rich enough, free enough, and culturally flexible enough to deal with these kinds of crises, and overcome them, which is unique amongst countries in history.

Look at your country: The New Zealand goverment this year will float a loan worth 2.5% of NZ's GDP. Your goverment owes $33 billion USD to foreigners . That's 40% of New Zealand's GDP! If NZ's credit is any good, those I.O.U.'s are racking up interest around 5% a year, which is about $1.7 billion a year, or 2% of GDP every year. Your goverment in other words will float a loan this year to pay off the interest on loans floated years before. Sounds about as responsible as a teeny bop managing her credit card.

As far as foreign opinion about Americans being "too capitalist," perhaps that would explain our society, which is free enough with its thoughts and property to build a society that dominates all nations in financial, technological, and military might, has the world's most diverse culture, and the oldest surviving goverment other than the United Kingdom. Perhaps that foreign opinion is wrong. Look at the results.

[BillA]

Originally Posted by psychofunk

Maybe there I let anger get the best of me, but you are missing the point of my initial post and that is to say just a you do not like to hear that you cannot be as good as someone else just because you don't believe, I don't like to be told I am mindless just because I do believe. It's a matter of mutual respect and consideration of others, right?

not so simple
untruth cannot be peddled as truth
this is called fraud, and seems only permitted in religion

you are perfectly free to find your own path to wherever it is that you think you're headed to

just cut out all the shit about YOUR god, YOUR heaven, and YOUR prohibitions
-> leave others the freedom to pick their own path, hopefully with their mind and not by superstition

[kronchev]

Originally Posted by killernoodle

Just because it isn't THAT unhealthy doesnt mean it is healthy. You are much healthier if you don't smoke. That is a fact.

Also, as long as the government is taking money from my paychecks for medicare and stuff, I dont want potheads growing up and taking all of it because of their life decisions. Realistically, people would recognize what the crap does to their bodies and just stop because most people dont want to die early, but people will always be ignorant to the future as long as they can be. I don't mind people smoking weed, but I don't want to be around them, I dont want share the road with them, and I dont wanna pay their medical bills because they have half a lung left.

If you were smart, you wouldnt use pot. Also, about how lots of things being stored in the brain... those things are necessary for basic life functions. Without them, we would DIE. Pot adds chemicals to the brain that are more likely to be dangerous to health.

I just dont see why people would use this stuff. I dont even feel compelled to drink or smoke, much less do weed or worse. It just doesnt make any sense...

but its OK we spend 10x that amount in trying to enforce it? think of it this way: if its legalized, it can be government controlled. which means not only greater purity and less health risks, but taxes, lots and lots of taxes. the taxes will go not only into education on pot (facts, not opinions, not "its bad', you say what it does and let people make up their own minds), but also will go back into the government. the money regained from the "war on drugs" alone will shut you up about wastefulness

and i dont believe that medicare or anything should cover it. im a big socialist and i dont believe that (makes me weird eh). I believe that everyone should get the same chance and everyone should throw in their share to help out, but if you **** up, thats your own damn fault. much like how alcoholics shouldnt have liver transplants covered, smokers shouldnt have cancer (that are from smoking) treatments covered, etc.

[HAL-9000]

Originally Posted by kronchev

but its OK we spend 10x that amount in trying to enforce it? think of it this way: if its legalized, it can be government controlled. which means not only greater purity and less health risks, but taxes, lots and lots of taxes. the taxes will go not only into education on pot (facts, not opinions, not "its bad', you say what it does and let people make up their own minds), but also will go back into the government. the money regained from the "war on drugs" alone will shut you up about wastefulness

and i dont believe that medicare or anything should cover it. im a big socialist and i dont believe that (makes me weird eh). I believe that everyone should get the same chance and everyone should throw in their share to help out, but if you **** up, thats your own damn fault. much like how alcoholics shouldnt have liver transplants covered, smokers shouldnt have cancer (that are from smoking) treatments covered, etc.

If you want socialized medicine, then you need to pay to all comers. If you start judging people who "f**ked up" as you say, then don't have one. I mean, what about all the fat people who ate at Mcdonalds? How about you, when you're heart goes out and the doctor says its your fault because you never got your a$$ out of a computer chair and got some excercise? Your fault! Or the guy who electrocutes himself building his computer...dumba$$ shoulda known better, right?

We tried this with the tobacco settlement. The evil tobacco companies were made to pay for their transgressions, and the costs it was placing on our socialized medical system. That was the argument. Who got the money? Trial lawyers and bureacrats. So now, most of that money is spent on nothing to do with tobacco or healthcare, such as building golf courses in New York state (I'm not kidding). The biggest single item the Feds spend their tobacco settlement income on? Subsidies for tobacco farmers! Ahhh, tobacco problem solved, thanks to Uncle Scam!

Either have your socialism or ditch it. The bling-bling judging people thing just doesn't work, and it turns into the tyranny of the majority, and a crappy program. Look at socialized medicine in the U.S. Its all sortsa managed and judging people via bureacrat is quite in vogue. Kid with cancer struggles, kid with "ADD" (which is bullsh$t IMO) gets free watered down methanphetamines called "Ritalin" and Granpa gets free Viagra at twice the OTC cost. That's goverment managed healthcare in action. Screw that.

[pHaestus]

It's interesting being a libertarian in a poor socialist province of Canada. And by interesting I mean I am about to snap.

Here's a news flash: government is never the true answer to your problems! I favor decriminalization in Canada for this reason; marijuana would get taxed to DEATH if fully legal. Just write a ticket to the tokers who are stupid and get caught out in public with a small amount of personal smoke (stupidity tax) and keep govt out of it otherwise.

Beer is about 2x as expensive here as in the US btw

[kronchev]

Originally Posted by HAL-9000

If you want socialized medicine, then you need to pay to all comers. If you start judging people who "f**ked up" as you say, then don't have one. I mean, what about all the fat people who ate at Mcdonalds? How about you, when you're heart goes out and the doctor says its your fault because you never got your a$$ out of a computer chair and got some excercise? Your fault! Or the guy who electrocutes himself building his computer...dumba$$ shoulda known better, right?

We tried this with the tobacco settlement. The evil tobacco companies were made to pay for their transgressions, and the costs it was placing on our socialized medical system. That was the argument. Who got the money? Trial lawyers and bureacrats. So now, most of that money is spent on nothing to do with tobacco or healthcare, such as building golf courses in New York state (I'm not kidding). The biggest single item the Feds spend their tobacco settlement income on? Subsidies for tobacco farmers! Ahhh, tobacco problem solved, thanks to Uncle Scam!

Either have your socialism or ditch it. The bling-bling judging people thing just doesn't work, and it turns into the tyranny of the majority, and a crappy program. Look at socialized medicine in the U.S. Its all sortsa managed and judging people via bureacrat is quite in vogue. Kid with cancer struggles, kid with "ADD" (which is bullsh$t IMO) gets free watered down methanphetamines called "Ritalin" and Granpa gets free Viagra at twice the OTC cost. That's goverment managed healthcare in action. Screw that.

then i dont favor complete "you **** up you dont get anything", i favor reduced payments. if I regularlly exercise and take care if myself, I should pay less, because ill be less of a burden to the system.

[kronchev]

Originally Posted by pHaestus

Beer is about 2x as expensive here as in the US btw

what prov? i never noticed that in ON or BC

[psychofunk]

Originally Posted by unregistered

not so simple
untruth cannot be peddled as truth
this is called fraud, and seems only permitted in religion

you are perfectly free to find your own path to wherever it is that you think you're headed to

just cut out all the shit about YOUR god, YOUR heaven, and YOUR prohibitions
-> leave others the freedom to pick their own path, hopefully with their mind and not by superstition

The only reason I use "My" is to indicate that it is what I believe and not something that I expect you to. As in my own beliefs. I never once have imposed my beliefs on anyone.

And as for arrogance, who are the ones that think they are better because they do not belieive. All you guys can do is insult, one after another so fine, screw consideration for others, every man for himself. Oh wait, too late, thats already how it is.

[Etacovda]

"Look at your country: The New Zealand goverment this year will float a loan worth 2.5% of NZ's GDP. Your goverment owes $33 billion USD to foreigners . That's 40% of New Zealand's GDP! If NZ's credit is any good, those I.O.U.'s are racking up interest around 5% a year, which is about $1.7 billion a year, or 2% of GDP every year. Your goverment in other words will float a loan this year to pay off the interest on loans floated years before. Sounds about as responsible as a teeny bop managing her credit card."

Agreed entirely, but its because our government has the collective brainpower of a bowl of complimentary peanuts. Also, a small country such as ours (<4m people), who are really tourism based, has a hard time staying above ground in that respect. Look at any small country thats isolated and 1st world (not that theres many of them) and you'll see a similar trend, to an extent. Unless a country this small has a particular commodity or service above another country, its almost certainly going to be in dept. But yes, our govt are morons, who are paid off easily - ie 'broadband' by telecom here (telecom was sold by the govt in the late 80's early 90's I think - 90% is overseas owned, no small part american) is bundled loop - the copper is purely theres, and its 90% overseas owned... 'broadband' here is 256k/128k up. Second example - govt sold a large proportion of our timber, to pay off some random dept; the list goes on.

That being said, you cant deny that America has problems of its own; sure, theres diversity, but theres much wider crime, pollution, corruption etc... every govt is as bad as each other. I think priority needs to be taken more than anything in regards to health care; if you're seriously sick, you should be seen very quickly. If not, longer is fine. The main problem with NZ is, we have EXCELLENT training, universities etc, but very few decent jobs to actually support them. Most graduates will travel overseas for jobs, because they're simply not available here. And overseas, they'll earn top dollar, because they're worth it.

As far as taking care of yourself goes, I agree with whats being said. However, society is great at making people feel bad about themselves - do you really think that the 250lb guy will go jogging to lose his weight? probably not, if hes got pride... Its all inter-related really, and as you say, we're all as bad as each other (before you jump to conclusions, im 5'8" and about 135lbs). What I want to know, is if your country took 20% of its military budget, and sunk it into healthcare and general society (homeless people anyone?), how much better would you country be because of it?

But yes, I guess they could legalise it, add another thing to tax... but really, how much would it help? honestly? Its a general management flaw causing these sorts of issues, not one greenleafed plant. Wow, nice OT there, sorry about that

[HAL-9000]

Originally Posted by kronchev

then i dont favor complete "you **** up you dont get anything", i favor reduced payments. if I regularlly exercise and take care if myself, I should pay less, because ill be less of a burden to the system.

If I excersise, eat grapenuts, fruits and berries, play with squirrels and other small furry woodland creatures, and practice yoga, I pay less into the system. If I smoke a lot, eat Mcnuggets for breakfast, and laze around all day staring at a cathode tube wasting away, then I pay more because I am a (potentially) higher cost to the system. Dude, you're describing the way private health insurance works. The problem is a lack of money available for private insurance.

This and poverty are supposedely mitigated by the goverment payroll taxes of Social Security and Medicare. Social Security is 6.5% payroll, and Medicare is ~2.4% payroll. This adds up to around 9% of my (and your's as well) check. This is before state and federal income tax. But wait, there is more to it than that. Your employer matches your Social Security and Medicare taxes (nice way to hide it from the actual taxpayer, by having the employer "pay it in your name," hence the deduction doesn't appear on your check ...slimey). That doubles the contribution.

So for every $1000 of taxable income I see on my check, I and my employer shell out $200 for insurance on my behalf. If I make $50000 a year gross, that means I (and my employer) shelled out $10000 for insurance crap "for my own good" of course. This is insurance that, if I'm thirty, I can't use for another thirty five years. Now, if I were to take that ten grand and split it 50/50 between health coverage and retirement savings myself, I would be able to get a very nice health insurance plan for my entire family, even if they had above average medical issues, (~$450 a month).

And if I was conservative about my investments, I could buy $5000 of thirty year Treasuries at a current yield of 5.5%. That means in thirty years I collect a $25000 dollar check. If I did that every year for ten years starting at age thirty until I was forty, that means I would earn a quarter of a million dollars between ages sixty to seventy. Thats half the income I was making when I was working. If I started at twenty, that means I would have piled on another quarter million five years before I even retire. If I'm only making $25000 thou a year, then it would be half those values, just like Social Security.

Remember, this is with safe investments with extremely crappy returns, if want to risk it (which should be my choice, its MY money) for higher returns then it will be that much better (or worse). If I had place $1000 in a NYSE issue twenty years ago and it peformed as well as the NYSE over that time, it would be $25000 today for instance. Think Social Security is gonna give me those kinds of returns in either scenario? Nope. With Social Security the typical guy (who made PCI, which is about $45,000) retires at sixty five and gets a $1200 a month check from the gov, until he shoves off. Thats it.

Think Brians256, with all his current medical crises involving his wife and four kids, is finding any utility in all those Medicare payments? I guess he and his wife should have been sixty five years old before they had kids huh? Wake up kronchev, socialism completely blows, and its a ripoff.

phaestus, cheers fellow libertarian! It must be lonely thinking like that in Saskatchewan! Keep the faith!

[HAL-9000]

Originally Posted by Etacovda

Agreed entirely, but its because our government has the collective brainpower of a bowl of complimentary peanuts. Also, a small country such as ours (<4m people), who are really tourism based, has a hard time staying above ground in that respect. Look at any small country thats isolated and 1st world (not that theres many of them) and you'll see a similar trend, to an extent. Unless a country this small has a particular commodity or service above another country, its almost certainly going to be in dept. But yes, our govt are morons, who are paid off easily - ie 'broadband' by telecom here (telecom was sold by the govt in the late 80's early 90's I think - 90% is overseas owned, no small part american) is bundled loop - the copper is purely theres, and its 90% overseas owned... 'broadband' here is 256k/128k up. Second example - govt sold a large proportion of our timber, to pay off some random dept; the list goes on.

That being said, you cant deny that America has problems of its own; sure, theres diversity, but theres much wider crime, pollution, corruption etc... every govt is as bad as each other. I think priority needs to be taken more than anything in regards to health care; if you're seriously sick, you should be seen very quickly. If not, longer is fine. The main problem with NZ is, we have EXCELLENT training, universities etc, but very few decent jobs to actually support them. Most graduates will travel overseas for jobs, because they're simply not available here. And overseas, they'll earn top dollar, because they're worth it.

As far as taking care of yourself goes, I agree with whats being said. However, society is great at making people feel bad about themselves - do you really think that the 250lb guy will go jogging to lose his weight? probably not, if hes got pride... Its all inter-related really, and as you say, we're all as bad as each other (before you jump to conclusions, im 5'8" and about 135lbs). What I want to know, is if your country took 20% of its military budget, and sunk it into healthcare and general society (homeless people anyone?), how much better would you country be because of it?

But yes, I guess they could legalise it, add another thing to tax... but really, how much would it help? honestly? Its a general management flaw causing these sorts of issues, not one greenleafed plant. Wow, nice OT there, sorry about that

If America cut %20 of its military budget, the gov would still have to float a $420 billion dollar loan to stay afloat anyways, and the cut would amount to about 1.5% of GDP. That aint much. Crime, pollution etc. are issues here. But this is a huge diverse country. Look at any big country with a lot of people, China, India, Brazil, Russia...their poverty-crime-pollution issues are far beyond ours, and they all experimented with socialism to some extent. Actually the more they experimented, the worse off the country.

And would you want (I guess you have) those same morons in the gov running health care? Yuck, they can't cope very well with current tasks. As far as good universities...Stanford is pretty good, so is Columbia, Harvard, and Yale. As a matter of fact, the best universities in the world are privately owned and endowed , not publicly funded.

[kronchev]

Originally Posted by HAL-9000

In regards to arrogance, I agree with you. To assume someone is in possesion of better character because they try hard to live up to their fairy tale versus someone who doesn't buy into fairy tales to begin with, is arrogant.

I agree with that

But in regards to socialism in society, I am against it. Goverments are the most ethically craven institutions in existence. Corporations can be considered evil sure, but they do not aim nuclear weapons at each other, imprison and murder people they don't agree with, or committ genocide. Those evils are all exclusive to goverments.

you are thinking of how government is perceived now, as people ruling over a masses. thats not right at all, thats not what government is supposed to be. a government is supposed to be about people working together to solve all kinds of problems. i guess what i envision a "perfect' government as is not what a modern definitly of a government is, but more of an anarchistic society. maybe thats why one of my good friends is an anarchist (a REAL policial anarchist, not what its come to mean), and we do agree on a lot of things.

Goverments are also the most fiscally irresponsible institutions. There is not one goverment in the world today that is not "deficit spending." Which is a snazzy word for taking out loans. The U.S. Goverment does it today, and our debt has exploded since 1971, primarily because of socialist programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and the collapse of financial solvency in Social Security. In the U.S., there is coming a day of reckoning with these bills, and it will happen before 2020. These programs will collapse, and we will rid ourselves of them when we have no other choice. The U.S. will have to face reality on these debts, as every goverment eventually does. Usually when a goverment goes belly up like that, society falls apart. Fortunately the U.S. is rich enough, free enough, and culturally flexible enough to deal with these kinds of crises, and overcome them, which is unique amongst countries in history.

its going to take A LOT to overcome this, with the way things are going. bush ****ed up BIG TIME with his bullshit 'wars'. he came into an office with a budget surplus and hes going to leave it (oh he is leaving, mark my words) with the biggest deficit since the 50's (i believe, correct me on the date). i dont agree with the current government's handling of anything AT ALL.

As far as foreign opinion about Americans being "too capitalist," perhaps that would explain our society, which is free enough with its thoughts and property to build a society that dominates all nations in financial, technological, and military might, has the world's most diverse culture, and the oldest surviving goverment other than the United Kingdom. Perhaps that foreign opinion is wrong. Look at the results.

america is also the only major country that 1) wasnt ruined by WWII and 2) hasnt had to fight a war on its own soil since the civil war.

[snowwie]

kronchev, you are a socialist and you want to legalize drugs?

doesn't sound very socialist to me

[Demonfire]

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabi...ulture11.shtml


That is why those bastards criminalized it.

[Vector86]

Wow I remeber when this thread started..... Anyways, I watched Grass: the documentary, It points out some very intersting things concerning Marijuana and the Government. It's also fairly entertaining. Some of you should check it out.

[superart]

Originally Posted by Vector86

Wow I remeber when this thread started..... Anyways, I watched Grass: the documentary, It points out some very intersting things concerning Marijuana and the Government. It's also fairly entertaining. Some of you should check it out.

Yea, I saw that too. It is very informative and entertaining.

Originally Posted by kronchev

america is also the only major country that 1) wasnt ruined by WWII and ...

And what is so bad about that?

And as for the countries that were ruined by WWII, where would they be now without American help? True, a lot of countries were financially ruined after the war, but America helped them back on their feet with aide and huge loans that were never repaid, and most likely will never be repaid. Even the countries we considered our enemies at that time, like Japan and Germany, were greatly helped. Now they are among the wealthiest countries with a standard of living that is even higher than America.

However, the countries that fell under the influence of the socialist Soviet Union are still, to this day, unstable and on the brink of ruin and revolution.

Originally Posted by kronchev

...2) hasnt had to fight a war on its own soil since the civil war.

Actually, during WWII Japan bombed Perl Harbor and invaded Alaska. That would be considdered fighiting a war on American soil.

Also, during the war of 1812, England invaded America and burn't down the Whitehouse.






But enough about politics, this thread was set up to discuss marijuana laws. And really, all the posts can be narrowed down to this:

Marijuana has never done any major harm to anyone.

Marijuana Laws, however, have inflicted great harm on individuals and society as a whole. These laws have wasted scarce national funds and resources, ruined the lives of individuals young and old by placing non violent people who have never hurt anyone in prisons, have denied medical treatment to patients with debilitating and mortal diseases, by creating a black market commodity that funds terrorism and violent cartels, and most of all, has made it EASIER for young children to purchase marijuana. There is absolutely NOTHING good that has ever, or will ever come from marijuana laws.

[Vector86]

^
word,
that was very well said

[killernoodle]

DIE THREAD DIE!!!

*stabs thread*

[RiejuRR]

In my country there are places called coffe shops, its not legal but the cops dont arrest ya if they c you

like this one :