Go Back   Pro/Forums > ProCooling Technical Discussions > Testing and Benchmarking
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar JavaChat Mark Forums Read

Testing and Benchmarking Discuss, design, and debate ways to evaluate the performace of he goods out there.

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 11-13-2004, 08:58 AM   #26
Cathar
Thermophile
 
Cathar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,538
Default

Perl = interpreted scripting programming language with syntax derived from C, java, awk, sed, and sh. Not great for large-scale programming because it requires discipline from the coder to not create unreadable code. Great for small scale munging of data sets. Incredibly powerful language but with more than enough syntax ugliness to hang oneself very quickly.
Cathar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-13-2004, 10:17 AM   #27
pHaestus
Big Player
Making Big Money
 
pHaestus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com
Posts: 4,782
Default

flow Storm G4
0.26 13.80666974
0.5 11.26556618
0.75 10.17413799
1.02 9.334698438
1.22 8.977748337
1.5 8.533861092
1.71 8.311434933

I keep 2 decimal places; probably only 1 is significant. I just fired an e-mail off to BaleFire with these numbers too. If you guys want a properly updated spreadsheet I can provide it.
pHaestus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-13-2004, 11:03 AM   #28
lolito_fr
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: France
Posts: 291
Default

Fascinating indeed.
MCW6000: multiply pumping power by 10 for a 1°C gain !
(but extremely good performance at low flow rates)

For the Nexxos & G4 the gain is roughly 3°C. Who said the Nexxos was better suited to a "low flow" system ?!
lolito_fr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-13-2004, 11:07 AM   #29
pHaestus
Big Player
Making Big Money
 
pHaestus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com
Posts: 4,782
Default

//edit: www.Madshrimps.be has made it so all referrals from Proforums get some "death to internet assholes" page instead of their NexXxoS XP review. I wonder why they post reviews if they don't want people reading them or talking about them?

I hope you didn't take that as a stab at you lolito_fr; was not my doing nor my intention.

Last edited by pHaestus; 11-13-2004 at 05:00 PM.
pHaestus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-13-2004, 04:07 PM   #30
Cathar
Thermophile
 
Cathar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,538
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pHaestus
//edit by pHaestus: Madshrimps.be no longer allows referrals from this site. Instead they forward our readers to some page about gay men in musicals. This is causing people to be insulted on this site; I find this to be childish, pointless, and I suggest that, if it also upsets you, that you complain to the companies that advertise and sponsor their website.
LOL - Followed the link. Looks like someone is a little touchy.

Last edited by pHaestus; 11-14-2004 at 12:43 PM.
Cathar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-13-2004, 04:20 PM   #31
Cathar
Thermophile
 
Cathar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,538
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pHaestus
flow Storm G4
0.26 13.80666974
0.5 11.26556618
0.75 10.17413799
1.02 9.334698438
1.22 8.977748337
1.5 8.533861092
1.71 8.311434933

I keep 2 decimal places; probably only 1 is significant. I just fired an e-mail off to BaleFire with these numbers too. If you guys want a properly updated spreadsheet I can provide it.
Thanks for the numbers Ph. I think BalefireX may have gotten something mixed up. The interactive graph clearly ends at 1.85gpm, and not 1.71gpm. Actually in looking it over, it seems to be just the last segment between the last two plot points. Everything else looks okay. Everything up to 1.5gpm is okay.

Would it be possible for you to put a folder somewhere with these sorts of figures for each block tested? I'm very interested in doing performance vs power analysis for at least the top 8 to 10 blocks on the interactive charts (where I have pressure drop information available).
Cathar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-13-2004, 06:09 PM   #32
Les
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wigan UK
Posts: 929
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pHaestus
//edit: www.Madshrimps.be has made it so all referrals from Proforums get some "death to internet assholes" page instead of their NexXxoS XP review. I wonder why they post reviews if they don't want people reading them or talking about them?

I hope you didn't take that as a stab at you lolito_fr; was not my doing nor my intention.
Not understand.
We were having a happy discusion(the odd dig) about Q*dP .
Why stop in it tracks.
A killed serious thread
Les is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-13-2004, 06:54 PM   #33
BalefireX
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 269
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathar
Thanks for the numbers Ph. I think BalefireX may have gotten something mixed up. The interactive graph clearly ends at 1.85gpm, and not 1.71gpm. Actually in looking it over, it seems to be just the last segment between the last two plot points. Everything else looks okay. Everything up to 1.5gpm is okay.
That is what appears to have happened - don't drink and graph!

I've sent pH a new (and doublechecked) graph overlay
__________________
If not, why not?
BalefireX is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-13-2004, 08:03 PM   #34
Cathar
Thermophile
 
Cathar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,538
Default

Well it seems to be the time for people finding computational errors. I found one myself, and have re-plotted the graph. I'll add some more blocks as I go. Fairly confident this is correct now. Decided to remove the logarithmic axis. Although interesting, it places a lot of visual impact on the hydrarulic pumping powers that simply don't commonly exist (ie. <0.5W).

Edit: Graph deleted due to errors with best-fit smoothing algorithm

(sigh - I'll get it right one day)

Last edited by Cathar; 11-14-2004 at 04:16 AM.
Cathar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-13-2004, 08:24 PM   #35
pHaestus
Big Player
Making Big Money
 
pHaestus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com
Posts: 4,782
Default

I don't know what to say Les; I can't control what another website does. It wasn't specifically caused by this post though; it was I think in retaliation to the other thread about "what happened to the Nexxos XP review"
pHaestus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-13-2004, 09:42 PM   #36
pHaestus
Big Player
Making Big Money
 
pHaestus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com
Posts: 4,782
Default

That's really neat Cathar. I am still trying to decide whether it's better or worse to try and explain hydraulic power to "avg Joe". Seems reasonable though. The G4 graph on the Pro/Testing page is fixed now; sorry for the error
pHaestus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-13-2004, 10:11 PM   #37
snowwie
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 154
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redleader
Why not just provide C/W per dP graphs? Given that, are C/W verses flow graphs even relevent? Its not like most people have any way to gauge flow, while their pump max head is published, and you can make educated guesses about what a radiator does to that figure.
it was my understanding that C/W per dP graphs were derived from dP per flowrate data

i dunno, just thinking of billa's work
snowwie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-14-2004, 02:07 AM   #38
Les
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wigan UK
Posts: 929
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pHaestus
I don't know what to say Les; I can't control what another website does. It wasn't specifically caused by this post though; it was I think in retaliation to the other thread about "what happened to the Nexxos XP review"
pHaestus,
I apologize ,I was/am wrong.
I should keep out of the kitchen and stick to numbers.
Les is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-14-2004, 04:58 AM   #39
lolito_fr
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: France
Posts: 291
Default

No probs here Ph, it seems to me that only you and Jaydee got redirected
(j/k of course)
lolito_fr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-14-2004, 05:12 AM   #40
Les
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wigan UK
Posts: 929
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathar

Edit: Graph deleted due to errors with best-fit smoothing algorithm

(sigh - I'll get it right one day)
Raises a smile.
Beermats still soggy here.
Les is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-14-2004, 05:34 AM   #41
Cathar
Thermophile
 
Cathar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,538
Default

I believe I've finally gotten all the bugs worked out of the procedure.

Even if nobody else really believes in this, I am gaining increasing confidence in it. The following graph's patterns mimics near exactly what I see/saw in my own testing with fixed power input fed to the pumps. There would naturally be some variations though between pump input power and hydraulic power depending on where one sits on the efficiency curve of the pump setup, so the correlation is not going to be perfect. I believe that this is the corrections that Since87 was trying to solve with his posts at OC.com.

In my own testing I'm using hydraulic powers from around 1W to 8W being fed to the blocks, although I guess that I really tended to focus on the 1.5-3W range when I look back at the work I've done and correlate it to hydraulic power.

Anyway, here's the updated graph that does contain some extrapolations to arrive at the 4W power figure.



[Edit: New graph - more blocks]

Last edited by Cathar; 11-14-2004 at 06:07 AM.
Cathar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-14-2004, 05:57 AM   #42
lolito_fr
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: France
Posts: 291
Default

Nice! Hardly surprised to see the G5 is miles ahead

Quote:
Even if nobody else really believes in this
I certainly believe these graphs are much more meaningful than just C/W vs flow.
Flow is always only half the story...Your graphs give a true indication of waterblock efficiency (or is that efficacity?)

Looking back at Since87s' post, as I understand it, the purpose was for the tester to measure the blocks performance at one point - corresponding to a typical system flow rate. Maybe I misread it though...

BTW, I am now very curious as to how the "old-school" blocks would fair with this rating system?
lolito_fr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-14-2004, 06:09 AM   #43
Les
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wigan UK
Posts: 929
Default

Fits sweetly with any of the old C/W v h plots
eg Fantasy
WW3

Possibly indicating the importance of your attention to non-contributory power in the G series.
Les is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-14-2004, 12:50 PM   #44
pHaestus
Big Player
Making Big Money
 
pHaestus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com
Posts: 4,782
Default

I'm going to quote this from the NexXxos XP thread to make sure the info doesn't get missed/lost and keep this discussion in one thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolito_fr
Ok, this is a continuation of Cathars' C/W vs Hydraulic Power graph idea, and some of the discussion above. (not porn related though )

I have decided to integrate the dT from the HE120.2 rad into my waterblock dT graphs for the Nexxos XP and MCW6000, so that, hopefully, the result is a graph of CPU-ambient dT vs water flow rate. *Cringe*

I used this rad mainly because Cathars' PQ curves for the Nexxos and MCW6000 already include the rads flow resistance (as well as 2m of 1/2" tubing).
The air flow rate corresponds roughly to 2 Papst 4312L @ 12v.

Power into the waterblock is 71W as per PHs' testbed, and this power is assumed to be fully dissipated by the rad.
Note that I have not included pump heat... will have to deal with that issue another day





Also please consider this as strictly experimental

edit:

pH, where is the interactive system graphing tool?
pHaestus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-14-2004, 01:20 PM   #45
lolito_fr
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: France
Posts: 291
Default

Thx pHaestus!

This is less relevant, but I'll include it as a logical conclusion.



edit: and this one with added pump heat:



Quote:
Eheim 1046, adds around 1.5W of heat to the loop
Eheim 1048, adds 3W of heat
Eheim 1250, adds 9W of heat
MCP600, adds 8W of heat
MCP650, adds 15W of heat
15W for the MCP650 sounds a little high(?)

Last edited by lolito_fr; 11-14-2004 at 03:21 PM.
lolito_fr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-14-2004, 01:34 PM   #46
pHaestus
Big Player
Making Big Money
 
pHaestus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com
Posts: 4,782
Default

You guys are too damn clever. Now I suppose all that you need is pressure drop numbers for all the wbs I've tested right?
pHaestus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-14-2004, 03:12 PM   #47
lolito_fr
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: France
Posts: 291
Default

Quote:
Now I suppose all that you need is pressure drop numbers for all the wbs I've tested right
You must be telepathic

If I was clever (or had a conscience...) I would have written a scipt in Matlab or better still created my own app in Perl
As it is, it feels like I've gone the long way around to produce the last graph - bit of a half-assed way of doing things really. But hey, I may just have learned something on the way
lolito_fr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-14-2004, 04:09 PM   #48
pHaestus
Big Player
Making Big Money
 
pHaestus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com
Posts: 4,782
Default

Probably the other big thing to do is for me to put together a test loop that contains 2m 1/2" ID tubing, a thermochill 120.2 and the papst fans at 12v, and the blocks/pumps we are modeling. Use it to cool the test system I collected all the data on and we can see how closely the theory matches up with actual performance. Rather unexciting (the results SHOULD match up) but necessary I think. Can I find this radiator and fans in north america?
pHaestus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-14-2004, 04:26 PM   #49
nikhsub1
c00ling p00n
 
nikhsub1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: L.A.
Posts: 758
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pHaestus
Probably the other big thing to do is for me to put together a test loop that contains 2m 1/2" ID tubing, a thermochill 120.2 and the papst fans at 12v, and the blocks/pumps we are modeling. Use it to cool the test system I collected all the data on and we can see how closely the theory matches up with actual performance. Rather unexciting (the results SHOULD match up) but necessary I think. Can I find this radiator and fans in north america?
Not sure about the fans, but I suppose and fan with the same specs should do, the rad can be had at DD: http://dangerden.com/mall/Radiators/thermochill.asp
__________________

*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*
E6700 @ 3.65Ghz / P5W DH Deluxe / 2GB 667 TeamGroup / 1900XTX
PC Power & Cooling Turbo 510 Deluxe
Mountain Mods U2-UFO Cube
Storm G5 --> MP-01 --> PA 120.3 --> 2x DDC Ultras in Series --> Custom Clear Res
"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity."
1,223,460+ Ghz Folding@Home
aNonForums
*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*
nikhsub1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-14-2004, 04:43 PM   #50
pHaestus
Big Player
Making Big Money
 
pHaestus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com
Posts: 4,782
Default

I don't see any of their canadian distributors stocking the thermochills. I guess I'll need to order direct from DD.
pHaestus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(C) 2005 ProCooling.com
If we in some way offend you, insult you or your people, screw your mom, beat up your dad, or poop on your porch... we're sorry... we were probably really drunk...
Oh and dont steal our content bitches! Don't give us a reason to pee in your open car window this summer...