"The ideal water block" - Page 2

Bruno Facca · 08-05-2002, 10:24 AM

Ok, so some posts in this thread have gone portuguese

For those of you who doesn't understand it, don't worry, I will be still giving you all the news in english.

@mrbingley: I'm not familiar with this bracket you're talking about, as I sais the block will come in 2 versions, it will support 3/8 and 1/2 tubing but anyway I don't think that was your question. got any URL I cna check these brackets out?

@UaZaa: check teu e-mail

@KaKa: Bom saber que a galera aqui do Brasil tambem ta por aqui! Eu não tenho icq mas me manda um e-mail: bjfacca@terra.com.br, ou post o teu e-mail ae q eu mando.

Thank you
Bruno Facca

KaKa · 08-05-2002, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruno Facca
Ok, so some posts in this thread have gone portuguese For those of you who doesn't understand it, don't worry, I will be still giving you all the news in english.

@KaKa: Bom saber que a galera aqui do Brasil tambem ta por aqui! Eu não tenho icq mas me manda um e-mail: bjfacca@terra.com.br, ou post o teu e-mail ae q eu mando.

Thank you
Bruno Facca

done!

uAHuAH UaZaa r u following me??

mrbingley · 08-05-2002, 02:46 PM

Bruno,
Have a look here, it's nearly at the bottom of the page

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatal...oolers_18.html

The Zalman bracket

Cheers
Chris.

Bruno Facca · 08-06-2002, 04:53 PM

@mrbingley: Thanks for the idea. I will look into it as the retention mechanism is not ready yet, I will let you know.

Bruno Facca

Bruno Facca · 08-07-2002, 07:08 PM

I'm sorry for not being able to post these news yesterday as I told you I would,I had some problems with my ADSL connection, so here are the news:

I had a problem casting the block, I couldn't make a mold that is good enough because of some technical problems (about the form of the block), the model ill have to be rebuilt from scratch, I already started and it sould take a few days. So again I'm really sorry for those of you who are waiting.

Now to the good things, the new design has been improved in many aspects, those little waves side by side would probably cause some "dead spots" in the lower part between them so they are now square, a little bigger and there is some more distance between each one. The artifacts in the bottom are now different, they are like "fat" cones, like the heads from the movie Coneheads (now that was a stupid comment

, that should improve heat transfer a lot. I'm thinking about adding a big hole, as in the size of the core but round on top of the core so the copper would be thinner in there, it's 4mm now. The new blast furnace is working perfectly and I got access to a 478 pin P4 for testing the block, of course it will be extensively tested on my XP as well.

That I'm not sure but the top should be a very dark shade of gray with the letters ACS extruded and painted in white.

I can't tell exactly when I will be able to start selling it, I will probably have lots of blocks by next week (I said probably), but the problem is in the payment methods as the shipping scheme is already ready, anyways I don't want this post to get commercial so if anyone wants to talk to me about anything else than the block's design e-mail me at bjfacca@terra.com.br.

Thanks
Bruno Facca

Bruno Facca · 08-12-2002, 06:18 PM

I don't know if you lost interest, if the thread got too far away or you are just waiting for more news, anyway I'll post the news, it would be good if you tell me if you're still interested.

The new model took lots of time because I had to follow some hard specifications for it to cast perfectly, looks very nice and it's only missing some final details so it will be ready tomorrow morning. I will cast it on wed.

I'm glad it took so long because I had time to improve the design by a lot, probably twice as good as the original. It will perform better and look better. Thank you everyone for all your great ideas!

The web site is also being re-designed as we tought it wasn't good enough, but as soon as I cast the first block I will post pics.

Thanks
Bruno Facca

V12|V12 · 08-13-2002, 02:21 PM

Hrmm... for AMD, I'd say make a 4bolts option AND include the LAME ZIFF retention clips (even though they SUCK are are prone to breaking, cheap POS plastic!) But I'd go SOLID COPPER! Forget all the frill-plastic crap, as you can see from some posters, they CRACK, bubble and sometimes burn, where as with tried and true copper, none of the above, plus it cools better. A nice spiral or maze is the standard design... or you could try the modified heatsink approach...

Bruno Facca · 08-14-2002, 09:34 PM

@V12|V12: Thanks for your ideas, I will let you know as soon as I get it done.

I'm sorry for copying/pasting some parts of my posts (sometimes the whole post) between a couple of forums, somethimes I just don't have timew to write the same thing all over again in different words.

I was thinking of saying that the block haven't come out because of "personal reasons" but people is probably starting to think I'm (I don't know the word, the kind of person who has no word and it's always making up excuses).. The block was supposed to be ready now, what hapenned was my doctor prescribed me a new medication for some stomach problems I have and I had a *very bad* reaction to it (from strong headaches to nightmares), that stuff totally knocked me out, for 2 days I was feeling like the day after 20 shots of tequila, so that's the reason for the delay. I'm not totally good yet probably because that sh#% was slow relase but as soon as the final glue from the model dries (I just applied it so it will be 24hrs) I will finally cast it.

As for payment I will be going with paysystems.com, they're located in canada and they do wire transfers to banks all around the world.

Thanks

Bruno Facca

V12|V12 · 08-16-2002, 06:44 PM

Sounds good to me, I'm always waiting around to see what comes about of wishful ideas, and my wishfull thinking that somewhere over the rainbow, I'll find a mini-CNC-miller w/bits and software waiting for me!

Bruno Facca · 08-17-2002, 11:51 PM

I hope it's the last time I come here with bad news: The block did cast ok, but not good enough so I called someone from out of town, he has been working with casting for over 40 years, we discussed what went "wrong" when making the mold cause I knew the problem was in there, he explained it to me (it was some very little details) and monday I will go to his workshop so he will show me a better technique for molding small, detailed objects like this block. No changes in the model will be necessary, it actually looks very good so I hope to get a "perfect" prototype working on my PC by tuesday.

I got very good hosting so the web site is also on it's way.

Besides the block I'm working on something that has a pump, reservoir, a radiator, 2 120mm fans and a rheostat to control their RPM, in fact the radiator it's one of the best for computer water cooling in the world (it's parallel in case you're curious). The advantage of this "all-in-one" are many, such as price, I didn't do any exact calculations but I guess it will be around $130 for the whole thing (it is a good price isn't it?), another cool thing about the way I'm desisgning this is the size, it's around 230mm tall, the other dimensions are 150mm and 180mm, as I told you the radiator is very good, the pump will be 1200 liters per hour and it will be all made of aluminium except for the acrylic front of the reservoir. I guess it will hold around 1 liter of water. This will be possible by taking advantage of every little space available between the parts. Anyway it will probably take over a month to get a prototype of this and it's on patenting process right now... Just let me know what you think about the ideas, I will tell you more about the project once it's fully patented (shouldn't take too long), I'm doing that because I never saw anything like this project before so I'm sorry if I sound like an ass. Anyway my priority right now is the block.

@V12|V12: I don't know a lot of technical terms in english so you got me wondering: what is a mini-CNC-miller?

Thank you
Bruno Facca

V12|V12 · 08-20-2002, 05:23 PM

It's a small version of a Computer Numeric Controlled Milling machine found in machining shops etc...

Now that project you're working on sounds Great! I've love to see some pics if ya could...

Bruno Facca · 08-20-2002, 11:31 PM

I'm back with some more news, I'm sorry for taking so long but I've been working like 12 hours a day in the development of this block so there are some days I'm so wasted at night I just eat and go straight to bed.

As I told you I talked to someone that's much more experienced in the cast process than me and he identified the problems in the mold and tought me some new techniques for precision casting. So I did cast the block yesterday, it looked good but after thinking about it over and over again I decided I wouldn't make it available yet because it can be made better using those new techniques I mentioned, right now I'm building some new tools to make that possible, at the same time my partner is switching the blower from ouw blast furnace to a bigger one so the copper will be even hotter when cast.

The reason why I'm not posting pics of the block I made yesterday is that, as I told you it's not as good as the one I will be selling, also I didn't want to sopend any time giving it finish so I'm sure some people would look at it and have wrong ideas about what the final block will be, I mean, underestimate it. So that's why I only want to post pics of the final product. I will also be posting some other requested pics including my personal wc rig, my rad and my workshop.

If nothing else goes wrong (I don't think it will) I will have a couple of blocks for testing by the end of this week. I know it's like the 10th time I say that but sometimes sh** happens, I'm working really hard to make this product as good as it can be and as fast as I can so you can keep checking this thread for any future updates.

Thanks
Bruno Facca

bigben2k · 08-21-2002, 08:42 AM

In the mean time, maybe you could describe in a little more detail this casting process.

My understanding of copper alloys leads me to believe that pure copper, one with little oxygen in it, performs better. How did you address this issue?

Bruno Facca · 08-21-2002, 11:18 AM

First of all you make the model, it can be made of any rigid material (that it's not sticky), I'm using wood and plastic for this. When you have the model exactly the way you want the copper block to be you make the mold, there are 3 materials you can use, I don't know their names in english but they work similary to each other: they are all a kind of very thin sand, once of them gets rigid with heat (this one can only be used with metal models otherwise when you heat it the wood model would burn), there's another one wich gets rigid when you inject CO2 into it and the third and most popular/traditional is what they call "green sand" it has a certain degree of humidity and some chemicals in it so if you compact it a lot (using a little wood hammer os something like that) it gets solid and won't fall apart unless you hit it.
After making these molds (lots of them) and making sure they have no failures you put the copper in the blast furnace, inside a special "bucket" made of compressed graphite, copper's melting point is 1085ºC, so when it gets a little hotter than this (so it won't solidify again too quickly) you get the quantity you will use for one mold with a tool that resembles one of those things (silverware) you use to serve punch, of course it's made of iron and has a very big cable so you won't get burned, you throw the liquified copper inside the model and there you go, after that it's just some finishing job like lapping, drilling holes for screws, assembling the top of the block wich is made separately and stuff like that.

About the O2 in the copper I buy only quality copper and no oxygen gets in in the cast process (as far as I know). Anyway the difference between the thermal properties of "common copper" and that copper treated to remove as much oxygen as possible are minimal.

Bruno Facca

V12|V12 · 08-23-2002, 02:55 PM

Hey, you were talkin about the prototype block etc... I'll take that off your hands if ya want, I'm always wanting to try out new stuff!@! Thanks

Bruno Facca · 08-24-2002, 11:46 AM

Everything is going the way it's suopposed to, except it took more time than I expected to do some stuff. I don't have time to write now because I'm late for something but I'll update you on monday.

Thanks
Bruno Facca

Bruno Facca · 08-26-2002, 09:50 PM

I was away for the weekend, I took a short trip to the countryside, I was too stressed out but now I'm back with batteries recharged.

The prototype would probably be ready by now if I had worked on the weekend as I'm used to. The thing that is taking so long is a tool I'm making (almost done) that will allow me to make the 2 sides of the mold separately, thus making the result a much more perfect mold (and block of course). I also upgraded the air blower of the blast furnace by a bigger one to get even more heat. If everything goes the way it's supposed to I will have the prototype in the middle of this week. By the way I made some more improvements in the model, now the top and bottom are metal so it molds even better.

About the radiator I told some people about (one of the best available for water cooling in the world) it's aluminium, I already knew mixing Al and Cu wasn't a very good idea but after making some research I found out that it's actually a *very bad* idea so I managed to get a 100% copper version of it, in fact it's even better than the aluminium one (wich I use myself) because it's a little thicker.

As for the pictures you all been waiting for I didn't forgot, as I told you I will take them all at once because of the work involved in capturing (I'm actually using a video camera for taking pics, capturing it to digital video, filtering it and choosing good frames for pics). The pics I will be posting are: the block of course, the model, my water cooling rig, the radiator I told you about, the blast furnace and maybe, just maybe, my messy workshop

@V12|V12: I'll have to do the testing myself but I'll keep you updated on everything that is going on.

Thank you
Bruno Facca

Bruno Facca · 08-29-2002, 07:24 PM

The model should have been ready for today but after testing the model (to see if it really molds well and it did) I ran out of molding material (stupid! stupid! stupid!) so I'll have to go out of town tomorrow and buy some, this will take most of the day so I will only cast the prototype on saturday. I'm really anxious here to get this thing working on my PC (for testing purposes), you have no idea..

I'm not sure how long will it take for me to make all the tests necessary (some tests to determine if the water is running as it was designed to be, performance tests in overclocked XP and P4, high pressure test for leaks..) but it shouldn't be much, like 3 to 10 days depending on how things go (counting from saturday).

Thanks

Bruno Facca

Bruno Facca · 09-01-2002, 12:13 PM

Sorry for the delay, but I have good news:

FINALLY! The prototype was cast succesfully, except for some little problems I already found a solution to, so they won't happen in the next cast. I used a molding material that has quite big particles to get a rough surface on the inside, the outside will be machined until it's totally smooth, all blocks will be lapped (except for the top that will be painted in the same color as graphite and the rough look will be very when painted).
I have no time to machine it today but tomorrow morning it will be all finished so I'll definately post the pictures tomorrow.

About the coldplate, I will have to look into it because the corners of the block (where the screws of the coldplate would go) were designed to hold only 1 screw (the copper is reinforced there so the screws don't go in contact with water) so the space available in there is already taken by the screws that hold the top into place, I'm trying to find a solution for this.

Thank you
Bruno Facca

Bruno Facca · 09-02-2002, 11:37 AM

Don't get too excited about the piuctures and forget to READ THE TEXT!

This is only a prototype or what you could call a "beta" version of the block, I made the mold in a hurry so as you can see there are some failures, as that "hole" on the bottom, another failure in the inside in the middle channel and some metal accumulations in the corners at the bottom of the inside of the block, those failures *will not be there* in the blocks that will come from next cast (wich will be the ones for sale) as I already figured out a way to avoid them. It's also dirty on the inside, it will be cleaned with a high pressure jet of air.

The inside surface is supposed to be that rough (except for the failures I told you about) to increase the contact area and water turbulence by a lot.

As you can see the quality of the pictures suck but that was the best I could get of my analog VHS videocamera.

The rest of the pictures I promised will be posted tonight.

The company web site is not ready yet so I uploaded the pics to my personal web space.
Here's the link:
http://paginas.terra.com.br/lazer/bjfacca/

Thanks to everyone who gave me your great ideas/suggestions/critics!
Bruno Facca

V12|V12 · 09-03-2002, 01:29 PM

Hey, those pics are great! At first the inside was looking rather unkept, then I forgot about all those INefficeint polished designs which don't lend to any turbulence, good job man! How much are these going to cost, how much work does it take to cast something like that?

V12

Bruno Facca · 09-03-2002, 05:55 PM

as I said before it has a lot of little flaws on the inside and the outside was machined by hand, I was holding the block against the (I don't know the name of the machine in english) "spinning abrasive thing" myself so it got pretty irregular, right now I'm building a tool to make it this process mostly automatic so the outside will be totally regular and flawless. . The inside will also look better when the molds are made more carefully, the walls, mainly the inside divisions are a little thicker than they should because, as I said, the mold was made in a hurry. Anyway when I say the inside will look better I mean it will have no flaws because it's supposed to be that rough, as you said, to increase turbulence. It should take some days to complete these tools I talked about. In short what I'm saying is: expect much better from the next "batch".

@V12|V12: I'm glad you liked it. It will cost $15 plus shipping, the cast process itself doesn't take too much work, what is really hard is the modelling part (as in making the molds). So the parts that take most of the time are modelling and machining. I'm not sure yet how many units I can produce in a week, I would guess aroud 16 now, this number will be much bigger once money starts to get in and I start updrading the machinery.

Thanks
Bruno Facca

V12|V12 · 09-03-2002, 06:57 PM

Hey, I was wondering about that block that you have in the pictures, the one that the walls are too thick? I'd like to purchase that one off of you if you would like to sell it and if you do, could I get a top with that too... I'm betting the one that is "flawed" works pretty well, I'd love to get my hands on it!

Thanks

Morpheus Kain · 09-03-2002, 07:13 PM

I suggest that you make the change the design so that the inlet is directly above the slug. From the reviews and such that I have read this seems to make a fairly decent difference, between 1 and 3C. I would love to test one of those blocks man!!! I'll pay 10bucks to cover the shipping and as a little thx.

Bruno Facca · 09-03-2002, 09:52 PM

@V12|V12: I will test that block along with one from the next batch, if that one works better I would increase wall thickness in all of them. I'm sorry but that one has sentimental value as it was my first cast block

. But hey, it won't be too long before it's available, hang in there for around 1 more week and the web store will be ready

@Morpheus Kain: If I were to put the inlet above the slug it would have to have 2 outlets, it crossed my mind before but I don't think many people would like that. As for testing I already have enough people, me plus some users of both overclocked XPs and P4, I'm sorry... As I told V12 I will have some available for sale at $15 + shipping ($10 to USA) in around 1 week, I will also have testing results by that time.

Thank you
Bruno Facca

08-05-2002, 02:46 PM	#28
mrbingley Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: West Yorkshire. UK. Posts: 39	Bruno, Have a look here, it's nearly at the bottom of the page http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatal...oolers_18.html The Zalman bracket Cheers Chris. __________________ Epox 8K3A+ Athlon XP 2000+ 256 MB generic RAM GF2 MX twinview Home made water cooling setup

08-13-2002, 02:21 PM	#32
V12\|V12 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio-State! <--Money Hussle! SUCKS Posts: 292	Hrmm... for AMD, I'd say make a 4bolts option AND include the LAME ZIFF retention clips (even though they SUCK are are prone to breaking, cheap POS plastic!) But I'd go SOLID COPPER! Forget all the frill-plastic crap, as you can see from some posters, they CRACK, bubble and sometimes burn, where as with tried and true copper, none of the above, plus it cools better. A nice spiral or maze is the standard design... or you could try the modified heatsink approach... __________________ XP 1600+ AGOIA-Y (GreenLabel, UNLOCKED!@/ NF7-S 2.0/ PC 2700 DDR 10.5*172FSB(1806/ 1991 high), Vcore 1.792...@84.95Watts --86' Chevette Heater Core --1/2" Vinyl tubes --Via1300-Stealth Mod(QUIET!) ---Home made copper-tube block ---PVC small internal res

08-16-2002, 06:44 PM	#34
V12\|V12 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio-State! <--Money Hussle! SUCKS Posts: 292	Sounds good to me, I'm always waiting around to see what comes about of wishful ideas, and my wishfull thinking that somewhere over the rainbow, I'll find a mini-CNC-miller w/bits and software waiting for me! __________________ XP 1600+ AGOIA-Y (GreenLabel, UNLOCKED!@/ NF7-S 2.0/ PC 2700 DDR 10.5*172FSB(1806/ 1991 high), Vcore 1.792...@84.95Watts --86' Chevette Heater Core --1/2" Vinyl tubes --Via1300-Stealth Mod(QUIET!) ---Home made copper-tube block ---PVC small internal res

08-20-2002, 05:23 PM	#36
V12\|V12 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio-State! <--Money Hussle! SUCKS Posts: 292	It's a small version of a Computer Numeric Controlled Milling machine found in machining shops etc... Now that project you're working on sounds Great! I've love to see some pics if ya could... __________________ XP 1600+ AGOIA-Y (GreenLabel, UNLOCKED!@/ NF7-S 2.0/ PC 2700 DDR 10.5*172FSB(1806/ 1991 high), Vcore 1.792...@84.95Watts --86' Chevette Heater Core --1/2" Vinyl tubes --Via1300-Stealth Mod(QUIET!) ---Home made copper-tube block ---PVC small internal res

08-21-2002, 08:42 AM	#38
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	In the mean time, maybe you could describe in a little more detail this casting process. My understanding of copper alloys leads me to believe that pure copper, one with little oxygen in it, performs better. How did you address this issue? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

08-05-2002, 10:24 AM	#26
Bruno Facca Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 70	Ok, so some posts in this thread have gone portuguese For those of you who doesn't understand it, don't worry, I will be still giving you all the news in english. @mrbingley: I'm not familiar with this bracket you're talking about, as I sais the block will come in 2 versions, it will support 3/8 and 1/2 tubing but anyway I don't think that was your question. got any URL I cna check these brackets out? @UaZaa: check teu e-mail @KaKa: Bom saber que a galera aqui do Brasil tambem ta por aqui! Eu não tenho icq mas me manda um e-mail: bjfacca@terra.com.br, ou post o teu e-mail ae q eu mando. Thank you Bruno Facca

08-06-2002, 04:53 PM	#29
Bruno Facca Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 70	@mrbingley: Thanks for the idea. I will look into it as the retention mechanism is not ready yet, I will let you know. Bruno Facca

08-07-2002, 07:08 PM	#30
Bruno Facca Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 70	I'm sorry for not being able to post these news yesterday as I told you I would,I had some problems with my ADSL connection, so here are the news: I had a problem casting the block, I couldn't make a mold that is good enough because of some technical problems (about the form of the block), the model ill have to be rebuilt from scratch, I already started and it sould take a few days. So again I'm really sorry for those of you who are waiting. Now to the good things, the new design has been improved in many aspects, those little waves side by side would probably cause some "dead spots" in the lower part between them so they are now square, a little bigger and there is some more distance between each one. The artifacts in the bottom are now different, they are like "fat" cones, like the heads from the movie Coneheads (now that was a stupid comment , that should improve heat transfer a lot. I'm thinking about adding a big hole, as in the size of the core but round on top of the core so the copper would be thinner in there, it's 4mm now. The new blast furnace is working perfectly and I got access to a 478 pin P4 for testing the block, of course it will be extensively tested on my XP as well. That I'm not sure but the top should be a very dark shade of gray with the letters ACS extruded and painted in white. I can't tell exactly when I will be able to start selling it, I will probably have lots of blocks by next week (I said probably), but the problem is in the payment methods as the shipping scheme is already ready, anyways I don't want this post to get commercial so if anyone wants to talk to me about anything else than the block's design e-mail me at bjfacca@terra.com.br. Thanks Bruno Facca

08-12-2002, 06:18 PM	#31
Bruno Facca Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 70	I don't know if you lost interest, if the thread got too far away or you are just waiting for more news, anyway I'll post the news, it would be good if you tell me if you're still interested. The new model took lots of time because I had to follow some hard specifications for it to cast perfectly, looks very nice and it's only missing some final details so it will be ready tomorrow morning. I will cast it on wed. I'm glad it took so long because I had time to improve the design by a lot, probably twice as good as the original. It will perform better and look better. Thank you everyone for all your great ideas! The web site is also being re-designed as we tought it wasn't good enough, but as soon as I cast the first block I will post pics. Thanks Bruno Facca

08-14-2002, 09:34 PM	#33
Bruno Facca Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 70	@V12\|V12: Thanks for your ideas, I will let you know as soon as I get it done. I'm sorry for copying/pasting some parts of my posts (sometimes the whole post) between a couple of forums, somethimes I just don't have timew to write the same thing all over again in different words. I was thinking of saying that the block haven't come out because of "personal reasons" but people is probably starting to think I'm (I don't know the word, the kind of person who has no word and it's always making up excuses).. The block was supposed to be ready now, what hapenned was my doctor prescribed me a new medication for some stomach problems I have and I had a very bad reaction to it (from strong headaches to nightmares), that stuff totally knocked me out, for 2 days I was feeling like the day after 20 shots of tequila, so that's the reason for the delay. I'm not totally good yet probably because that sh#% was slow relase but as soon as the final glue from the model dries (I just applied it so it will be 24hrs) I will finally cast it. As for payment I will be going with paysystems.com, they're located in canada and they do wire transfers to banks all around the world. Thanks Bruno Facca

08-17-2002, 11:51 PM	#35
Bruno Facca Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 70	I hope it's the last time I come here with bad news: The block did cast ok, but not good enough so I called someone from out of town, he has been working with casting for over 40 years, we discussed what went "wrong" when making the mold cause I knew the problem was in there, he explained it to me (it was some very little details) and monday I will go to his workshop so he will show me a better technique for molding small, detailed objects like this block. No changes in the model will be necessary, it actually looks very good so I hope to get a "perfect" prototype working on my PC by tuesday. I got very good hosting so the web site is also on it's way. Besides the block I'm working on something that has a pump, reservoir, a radiator, 2 120mm fans and a rheostat to control their RPM, in fact the radiator it's one of the best for computer water cooling in the world (it's parallel in case you're curious). The advantage of this "all-in-one" are many, such as price, I didn't do any exact calculations but I guess it will be around $130 for the whole thing (it is a good price isn't it?), another cool thing about the way I'm desisgning this is the size, it's around 230mm tall, the other dimensions are 150mm and 180mm, as I told you the radiator is very good, the pump will be 1200 liters per hour and it will be all made of aluminium except for the acrylic front of the reservoir. I guess it will hold around 1 liter of water. This will be possible by taking advantage of every little space available between the parts. Anyway it will probably take over a month to get a prototype of this and it's on patenting process right now... Just let me know what you think about the ideas, I will tell you more about the project once it's fully patented (shouldn't take too long), I'm doing that because I never saw anything like this project before so I'm sorry if I sound like an ass. Anyway my priority right now is the block. @V12\|V12: I don't know a lot of technical terms in english so you got me wondering: what is a mini-CNC-miller? Thank you Bruno Facca

08-20-2002, 11:31 PM	#37
Bruno Facca Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 70	I'm back with some more news, I'm sorry for taking so long but I've been working like 12 hours a day in the development of this block so there are some days I'm so wasted at night I just eat and go straight to bed. As I told you I talked to someone that's much more experienced in the cast process than me and he identified the problems in the mold and tought me some new techniques for precision casting. So I did cast the block yesterday, it looked good but after thinking about it over and over again I decided I wouldn't make it available yet because it can be made better using those new techniques I mentioned, right now I'm building some new tools to make that possible, at the same time my partner is switching the blower from ouw blast furnace to a bigger one so the copper will be even hotter when cast. The reason why I'm not posting pics of the block I made yesterday is that, as I told you it's not as good as the one I will be selling, also I didn't want to sopend any time giving it finish so I'm sure some people would look at it and have wrong ideas about what the final block will be, I mean, underestimate it. So that's why I only want to post pics of the final product. I will also be posting some other requested pics including my personal wc rig, my rad and my workshop. If nothing else goes wrong (I don't think it will) I will have a couple of blocks for testing by the end of this week. I know it's like the 10th time I say that but sometimes sh** happens, I'm working really hard to make this product as good as it can be and as fast as I can so you can keep checking this thread for any future updates. Thanks Bruno Facca

08-21-2002, 11:18 AM	#39
Bruno Facca Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 70	First of all you make the model, it can be made of any rigid material (that it's not sticky), I'm using wood and plastic for this. When you have the model exactly the way you want the copper block to be you make the mold, there are 3 materials you can use, I don't know their names in english but they work similary to each other: they are all a kind of very thin sand, once of them gets rigid with heat (this one can only be used with metal models otherwise when you heat it the wood model would burn), there's another one wich gets rigid when you inject CO2 into it and the third and most popular/traditional is what they call "green sand" it has a certain degree of humidity and some chemicals in it so if you compact it a lot (using a little wood hammer os something like that) it gets solid and won't fall apart unless you hit it. After making these molds (lots of them) and making sure they have no failures you put the copper in the blast furnace, inside a special "bucket" made of compressed graphite, copper's melting point is 1085ºC, so when it gets a little hotter than this (so it won't solidify again too quickly) you get the quantity you will use for one mold with a tool that resembles one of those things (silverware) you use to serve punch, of course it's made of iron and has a very big cable so you won't get burned, you throw the liquified copper inside the model and there you go, after that it's just some finishing job like lapping, drilling holes for screws, assembling the top of the block wich is made separately and stuff like that. About the O2 in the copper I buy only quality copper and no oxygen gets in in the cast process (as far as I know). Anyway the difference between the thermal properties of "common copper" and that copper treated to remove as much oxygen as possible are minimal. Bruno Facca

08-23-2002, 02:55 PM	#40
V12\|V12 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio-State! <--Money Hussle! SUCKS Posts: 292	Hey, you were talkin about the prototype block etc... I'll take that off your hands if ya want, I'm always wanting to try out new stuff!@! Thanks __________________ XP 1600+ AGOIA-Y (GreenLabel, UNLOCKED!@/ NF7-S 2.0/ PC 2700 DDR 10.5*172FSB(1806/ 1991 high), Vcore 1.792...@84.95Watts --86' Chevette Heater Core --1/2" Vinyl tubes --Via1300-Stealth Mod(QUIET!) ---Home made copper-tube block ---PVC small internal res

08-24-2002, 11:46 AM	#41
Bruno Facca Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 70	Everything is going the way it's suopposed to, except it took more time than I expected to do some stuff. I don't have time to write now because I'm late for something but I'll update you on monday. Thanks Bruno Facca

08-26-2002, 09:50 PM	#42
Bruno Facca Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 70	I was away for the weekend, I took a short trip to the countryside, I was too stressed out but now I'm back with batteries recharged. The prototype would probably be ready by now if I had worked on the weekend as I'm used to. The thing that is taking so long is a tool I'm making (almost done) that will allow me to make the 2 sides of the mold separately, thus making the result a much more perfect mold (and block of course). I also upgraded the air blower of the blast furnace by a bigger one to get even more heat. If everything goes the way it's supposed to I will have the prototype in the middle of this week. By the way I made some more improvements in the model, now the top and bottom are metal so it molds even better. About the radiator I told some people about (one of the best available for water cooling in the world) it's aluminium, I already knew mixing Al and Cu wasn't a very good idea but after making some research I found out that it's actually a very bad idea so I managed to get a 100% copper version of it, in fact it's even better than the aluminium one (wich I use myself) because it's a little thicker. As for the pictures you all been waiting for I didn't forgot, as I told you I will take them all at once because of the work involved in capturing (I'm actually using a video camera for taking pics, capturing it to digital video, filtering it and choosing good frames for pics). The pics I will be posting are: the block of course, the model, my water cooling rig, the radiator I told you about, the blast furnace and maybe, just maybe, my messy workshop @V12\|V12: I'll have to do the testing myself but I'll keep you updated on everything that is going on. Thank you Bruno Facca

08-29-2002, 07:24 PM	#43
Bruno Facca Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 70	The model should have been ready for today but after testing the model (to see if it really molds well and it did) I ran out of molding material (stupid! stupid! stupid!) so I'll have to go out of town tomorrow and buy some, this will take most of the day so I will only cast the prototype on saturday. I'm really anxious here to get this thing working on my PC (for testing purposes), you have no idea.. I'm not sure how long will it take for me to make all the tests necessary (some tests to determine if the water is running as it was designed to be, performance tests in overclocked XP and P4, high pressure test for leaks..) but it shouldn't be much, like 3 to 10 days depending on how things go (counting from saturday). Thanks Bruno Facca

09-01-2002, 12:13 PM	#44
Bruno Facca Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 70	Sorry for the delay, but I have good news: FINALLY! The prototype was cast succesfully, except for some little problems I already found a solution to, so they won't happen in the next cast. I used a molding material that has quite big particles to get a rough surface on the inside, the outside will be machined until it's totally smooth, all blocks will be lapped (except for the top that will be painted in the same color as graphite and the rough look will be very when painted). I have no time to machine it today but tomorrow morning it will be all finished so I'll definately post the pictures tomorrow. About the coldplate, I will have to look into it because the corners of the block (where the screws of the coldplate would go) were designed to hold only 1 screw (the copper is reinforced there so the screws don't go in contact with water) so the space available in there is already taken by the screws that hold the top into place, I'm trying to find a solution for this. Thank you Bruno Facca

09-02-2002, 11:37 AM	#45
Bruno Facca Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 70	Don't get too excited about the piuctures and forget to READ THE TEXT! This is only a prototype or what you could call a "beta" version of the block, I made the mold in a hurry so as you can see there are some failures, as that "hole" on the bottom, another failure in the inside in the middle channel and some metal accumulations in the corners at the bottom of the inside of the block, those failures will not be there in the blocks that will come from next cast (wich will be the ones for sale) as I already figured out a way to avoid them. It's also dirty on the inside, it will be cleaned with a high pressure jet of air. The inside surface is supposed to be that rough (except for the failures I told you about) to increase the contact area and water turbulence by a lot. As you can see the quality of the pictures suck but that was the best I could get of my analog VHS videocamera. The rest of the pictures I promised will be posted tonight. The company web site is not ready yet so I uploaded the pics to my personal web space. Here's the link: http://paginas.terra.com.br/lazer/bjfacca/ Thanks to everyone who gave me your great ideas/suggestions/critics! Bruno Facca

09-03-2002, 01:29 PM	#46
V12\|V12 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio-State! <--Money Hussle! SUCKS Posts: 292	Hey, those pics are great! At first the inside was looking rather unkept, then I forgot about all those INefficeint polished designs which don't lend to any turbulence, good job man! How much are these going to cost, how much work does it take to cast something like that? V12 __________________ XP 1600+ AGOIA-Y (GreenLabel, UNLOCKED!@/ NF7-S 2.0/ PC 2700 DDR 10.5*172FSB(1806/ 1991 high), Vcore 1.792...@84.95Watts --86' Chevette Heater Core --1/2" Vinyl tubes --Via1300-Stealth Mod(QUIET!) ---Home made copper-tube block ---PVC small internal res

09-03-2002, 05:55 PM	#47
Bruno Facca Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 70	as I said before it has a lot of little flaws on the inside and the outside was machined by hand, I was holding the block against the (I don't know the name of the machine in english) "spinning abrasive thing" myself so it got pretty irregular, right now I'm building a tool to make it this process mostly automatic so the outside will be totally regular and flawless. . The inside will also look better when the molds are made more carefully, the walls, mainly the inside divisions are a little thicker than they should because, as I said, the mold was made in a hurry. Anyway when I say the inside will look better I mean it will have no flaws because it's supposed to be that rough, as you said, to increase turbulence. It should take some days to complete these tools I talked about. In short what I'm saying is: expect much better from the next "batch". @V12\|V12: I'm glad you liked it. It will cost $15 plus shipping, the cast process itself doesn't take too much work, what is really hard is the modelling part (as in making the molds). So the parts that take most of the time are modelling and machining. I'm not sure yet how many units I can produce in a week, I would guess aroud 16 now, this number will be much bigger once money starts to get in and I start updrading the machinery. Thanks Bruno Facca

09-03-2002, 06:57 PM	#48
V12\|V12 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio-State! <--Money Hussle! SUCKS Posts: 292	Hey, I was wondering about that block that you have in the pictures, the one that the walls are too thick? I'd like to purchase that one off of you if you would like to sell it and if you do, could I get a top with that too... I'm betting the one that is "flawed" works pretty well, I'd love to get my hands on it! Thanks __________________ XP 1600+ AGOIA-Y (GreenLabel, UNLOCKED!@/ NF7-S 2.0/ PC 2700 DDR 10.5*172FSB(1806/ 1991 high), Vcore 1.792...@84.95Watts --86' Chevette Heater Core --1/2" Vinyl tubes --Via1300-Stealth Mod(QUIET!) ---Home made copper-tube block ---PVC small internal res

09-03-2002, 07:13 PM	#49
Morpheus Kain Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NW Florida Posts: 5	I suggest that you make the change the design so that the inlet is directly above the slug. From the reviews and such that I have read this seems to make a fairly decent difference, between 1 and 3C. I would love to test one of those blocks man!!! I'll pay 10bucks to cover the shipping and as a little thx.

09-03-2002, 09:52 PM	#50
Bruno Facca Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 70	@V12\|V12: I will test that block along with one from the next batch, if that one works better I would increase wall thickness in all of them. I'm sorry but that one has sentimental value as it was my first cast block . But hey, it won't be too long before it's available, hang in there for around 1 more week and the web store will be ready @Morpheus Kain: If I were to put the inlet above the slug it would have to have 2 outlets, it crossed my mind before but I don't think many people would like that. As for testing I already have enough people, me plus some users of both overclocked XPs and P4, I'm sorry... As I told V12 I will have some available for sale at $15 + shipping ($10 to USA) in around 1 week, I will also have testing results by that time. Thank you Bruno Facca

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)