performance in the eye of the beholder? - Page 3

jtroutma · 09-25-2002, 07:33 PM

I cant speak for everyone else here but the only reason why I have a res. is because I want some extra coolant in my system to compinsate for evaporation.

My system for the most part is a closed loop except for the res. where the coolant can expand and contract due to the different ambient temperatures. With this, I loose about 2oz of coolant every 2 weeks. The res. is there so if I leave my system alone for about a month, I wont be sucking air

Just cheap insurace.... no extra cooling potential.

gmat · 09-26-2002, 02:21 AM

mo: airtrap, refill / bleeding convenience

jroutma:

you've got silicone tubing haven't you ?

Brians256 · 09-26-2002, 11:56 AM

I'll second several of the above reasons. I have an airtrap/reservoir for getting air out of the system, providing a convenient fill point, and providing a safety margin of coolant in the case of evaporative loss.

Oh, BTW I have vinyl tubing (yeah, yeah) and I still lose about an ounce every month or two. However, my airtrap top isn't a great seal. So that's probably where I'm losing it. Water gets hot and pushes humidity laden air out. I shut the system down and the airtrap sucks a bit of cooler drier air back down inside. Well, it's a good theory. Hopefully it's not a micron sized leak somewhere else.

jtroutma · 09-26-2002, 05:25 PM

Gmat: Nope, actually all vinyl tubing

Was thinking of replacing all of it with tygon soon though

I am sure I am loosing the water becuase my res. is not sealed at the top. I WANT to allow for expansion in my res. so my system doesnt build up unnecessary pressure.

Edit: BTW I acutally think I am only loosing about 1 oz of coolant every (2) weeks. I hardly fill it up at all any more.

mo · 10-01-2002, 04:35 PM

Ok... I bought some 1/4 inch tuff acrylic to make my reservoir/airtrap and a glue that is used to put it together(Toxic city:P), but Im having major doubts about whether the end result is going to leak or not...Anyone have recommendations as to how I can seal my container without worrying about waterleaks in the future? Will Applying Silicone after using the Glue be sufficient? Any "more aesthetically pleasing" alternative solution?

mo · 10-06-2002, 04:10 PM

Well... Finally got everything hooked together yesterday. I still havent fired up the processor .. the initial setup is closed.

Water I put in the system is pretty cold... After 6 hours of testing the system for leeks, I came back to find the pump HOT (uncomfortable to touch) and the tubing slightly warm to the touch. No fans are working on the radiator as this was just to check for leaks.. Didnt expect the pump to push that much heat..
Im using a custom sea life velocity pump (T2).

Is this normal and I just need to setup a fan next to the pump, or should I be contacting tech support.

Loop is bucket of water->pump->waterblock->radiator->bucket and using distilled/ozonated water.

Heavy_Equipment · 10-06-2002, 04:20 PM

My Eheim 1048 was running for almost 2 months, without using the cooling loop, when I forgot to unplug it. (water loop was still complete, dehumidifier, pump, and w/b...just not on system)

7 weeks later, water temp was 1/2 C over ambient, and pump temp "felt" cool.

IMO, bad pump.

mo · 10-07-2002, 12:02 PM

Well.. looks like the heat is normal for the CS pumps when they encounter any back pressure:P Will need to add a fan infront of the motor to cool it down a bit.

While installing the waterblocks though I ran into something of a problem.. No holes around the chipset

Just 2 loops as you can see...

I can either: 1) try to make something that will be similar but higher to work with my Z chipset block
2) Clip off the hoops and drill 2 holes into the pcb where they are to install it the way it is supposed to be installed..

Any problems with #2?
PS. IT7 MAX2 mb

bigben2k · 10-07-2002, 12:22 PM

Don't drill in the mobo, unless someone here clears it! There are many layers of paths in a mobo, some of which you might not be able to see right now. Drilling it would definitely put you in a bad spot, if you permanently damaged your mobo.

Alternatively, you can use AS3 epoxy,: clean, simple, and no drill!

mo · 10-07-2002, 12:48 PM

hmm...wouldnt the weight of the block and water kinda introduce an unhealthy tug at the chipset without something holding it in place?

bigben2k · 10-07-2002, 12:52 PM

Trust me: once you get that epoxy on there, it ain't coming off!

In fact, here's a tip: mix a bit of regular AS3 with the epoxy, for a not-so-permanent solution.

mo · 10-07-2002, 01:12 PM

Dankies

mo · 10-08-2002, 04:49 PM

A question for the gurus... How well would a well wound flexible copper tube cool a core that it is wound around? Would having a 3/8 copper tube wound tight around a pump do a good job at cooling it if its running extremely hot?

bigben2k · 10-08-2002, 04:57 PM

hum... besides bending the copper tubes, what exactly is your proposed cooling solution? Copper tube to air? What are you trying to cool, the core or the pump?

I don't get it...:shrug:

mo · 10-08-2002, 05:00 PM

sorry. wasnt clear. The pump is in the middle of the copper coil

I'll pump water through the copper tube (Use a Yye at the Pump outtake with a 1/2 inch to 3/8 reducer to the copper coil and have some water go to cool the pump (motor area).

bigben2k · 10-08-2002, 05:05 PM

Cooling the HDD is tricky, I'll get back to that later.

In order to cool the pump, you have to have some kind of contact with the heat source. Since I'm sure you're not going to solder copper tubes to the pumps motor coils (if you do, you deserve a spanking!), that would leave you with 2 options:
1-Pray to <insert your deity here> that the heat from the pump will miraculously get into the wound up copper tubing, through thin air.

2-Use a small fan to vent your pump.

Your choice...

mo · 10-08-2002, 05:13 PM

Heres the thing... Its been argued that pump heat doesnt really contribute to overall temps that much... But the amount of heat this pump pushes is bad enough that you cant hold it in your hand when its running. What I was thinking was to wind the copper tube around the hot metal casing (so its actually touching it since the body is round) and have some of the water go through it, to avoid having it add unnecessary heat to the inside of the case.

Now.. Are you saying that no matter how tight I make it around the body, it would not make a difference in terms of actually cooling the pump and that best option is to just add a fan?

bigben2k · 10-08-2002, 05:40 PM

Of course that's what I'm saying! Think about it for a sec: where does the heat come from? the case of the pump? No, it comes from the motor coils, to which you can't attach a metal part, to cool it, so the solution is to ventilate the pump.

What pump are you using, anyways?

BTW: that amount of heat may or may not get into the water. Regardless, most of the heat comes from the pumping action, unless your pump is being run at a very inneficient rate.

mo · 10-08-2002, 05:59 PM

Im using the Custom Sealife T2 velocity pump...
And Im not getting the difference... Only way I can think of to ventilate it would be to stick a fan infront of the pump (or below it) which again is just cooling the housing not the actual motor coil. The outside casing of the pump is completed sealed. no way for air or even water for that matter to get in.
Thats where I came up with the idea of using the water to contain this heat so it doesnt heat up the inside of the case....

PS. patience is a virtue. newbie alert

bigben2k · 10-08-2002, 06:13 PM

Ok for everyone's benefit...

Here are the specs:
Custom Sealife T2
flow at 3ft: 650gph
3/4" FPT connections.

Here's a pic of the T1 model:

mo · 10-09-2002, 07:49 PM

Im installing the maze3 waterblock right now and noticed that the mounting mechanism was missing washers and nuts... I dug up enough nuts to do the job but dont have any nylon washers...do I have to worry about conductivity on the mounting holes???? or can I do without the washers? Im talking about where you hold the screws that the block is going to mount on onto the motherboard.. (nut below the motherboard, and another above it to hold it upright.)

mo · 10-11-2002, 07:39 AM

ooooook... Finished my reservoir.. which works really well and hasnt leaked in the last 24 hours which is great!!

Had a couple leaks from my waterblock hose (my G400 was acting as a water collector for about an hour before I noticed:P) but tightened the screws a bit and now Im leak free. left the system for a full 48 hours after the leak to make sure no more moisture is left.

The last piece in my system was to get a decent power supply. Settled for an Antec 470W Silent Power PSU. Hooked everything up, and nothing!!

Now before I start panicking I figured Id ask around here and can guess of a setup problem that might be causing this:P:

I dont have an insulating washer between my nuts and the motherboard holding the wb screws in place (shouldnt really matter though). Power is getting to the mb since the light is turning on near the power switch (onboard). None of the fans start when I turn on the power supply. Nothing happens when I try to power on the machine...

There was no power supply even in the system when the leak happened so I couldnt have messed up my board from that leak:P and even so, my fans are connected to the PSU via 4 pin molex connectors so those should at least start:P What do you guys think?

gone_fishin · 10-11-2002, 08:09 AM

Some motherboards require a fan to be plugged into the CPU fan header. Read your mobo instructions to find which one it is. It won't boot unless a fan is detected.

mo · 10-11-2002, 08:26 AM

I will try that when I get home. However wouldnt the power supply fans and the fans connected to it at least start up even if the mb doesnt?

bigben2k · 10-11-2002, 09:19 AM

You do need the insulating washers. If you're without, you can either stop by any hardware store, or make some yourself out of cardboard.

09-25-2002, 07:33 PM	#51
jtroutma Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SLO, CA Posts: 837	I cant speak for everyone else here but the only reason why I have a res. is because I want some extra coolant in my system to compinsate for evaporation. My system for the most part is a closed loop except for the res. where the coolant can expand and contract due to the different ambient temperatures. With this, I loose about 2oz of coolant every 2 weeks. The res. is there so if I leave my system alone for about a month, I wont be sucking air Just cheap insurace.... no extra cooling potential. __________________ Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 2.5Ghz (250FSB x 10) OCZ VX 1GB 4000 @ 250FSB (6-2-2-2 timmings) DFI LANParty nForce4 Ultra-D SCSI Raid 5 x (3) Cheetah 15K HDDs LSI Express 500 (128MB cache) OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU ATI X850XT PE (Stock) DTEK WhiteWater + DTEK Custom Radiator Eheim 1250

09-26-2002, 05:25 PM	#54
jtroutma Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SLO, CA Posts: 837	Gmat: Nope, actually all vinyl tubing Was thinking of replacing all of it with tygon soon though I am sure I am loosing the water becuase my res. is not sealed at the top. I WANT to allow for expansion in my res. so my system doesnt build up unnecessary pressure. Edit: BTW I acutally think I am only loosing about 1 oz of coolant every (2) weeks. I hardly fill it up at all any more. __________________ Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 2.5Ghz (250FSB x 10) OCZ VX 1GB 4000 @ 250FSB (6-2-2-2 timmings) DFI LANParty nForce4 Ultra-D SCSI Raid 5 x (3) Cheetah 15K HDDs LSI Express 500 (128MB cache) OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU ATI X850XT PE (Stock) DTEK WhiteWater + DTEK Custom Radiator Eheim 1250

10-07-2002, 12:22 PM	#59
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Don't drill in the mobo, unless someone here clears it! There are many layers of paths in a mobo, some of which you might not be able to see right now. Drilling it would definitely put you in a bad spot, if you permanently damaged your mobo. Alternatively, you can use AS3 epoxy,: clean, simple, and no drill! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-07-2002, 12:52 PM	#61
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Trust me: once you get that epoxy on there, it ain't coming off! In fact, here's a tip: mix a bit of regular AS3 with the epoxy, for a not-so-permanent solution. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-08-2002, 04:57 PM	#64
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	hum... besides bending the copper tubes, what exactly is your proposed cooling solution? Copper tube to air? What are you trying to cool, the core or the pump? I don't get it...:shrug: __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-26-2002, 02:21 AM	#52
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	mo: airtrap, refill / bleeding convenience jroutma: you've got silicone tubing haven't you ?

09-26-2002, 11:56 AM	#53
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	I'll second several of the above reasons. I have an airtrap/reservoir for getting air out of the system, providing a convenient fill point, and providing a safety margin of coolant in the case of evaporative loss. Oh, BTW I have vinyl tubing (yeah, yeah) and I still lose about an ounce every month or two. However, my airtrap top isn't a great seal. So that's probably where I'm losing it. Water gets hot and pushes humidity laden air out. I shut the system down and the airtrap sucks a bit of cooler drier air back down inside. Well, it's a good theory. Hopefully it's not a micron sized leak somewhere else.

10-01-2002, 04:35 PM	#55
mo Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada, Montreal Posts: 136	Ok... I bought some 1/4 inch tuff acrylic to make my reservoir/airtrap and a glue that is used to put it together(Toxic city:P), but Im having major doubts about whether the end result is going to leak or not...Anyone have recommendations as to how I can seal my container without worrying about waterleaks in the future? Will Applying Silicone after using the Glue be sufficient? Any "more aesthetically pleasing" alternative solution?

10-06-2002, 04:10 PM	#56
mo Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada, Montreal Posts: 136	Well... Finally got everything hooked together yesterday. I still havent fired up the processor .. the initial setup is closed. Water I put in the system is pretty cold... After 6 hours of testing the system for leeks, I came back to find the pump HOT (uncomfortable to touch) and the tubing slightly warm to the touch. No fans are working on the radiator as this was just to check for leaks.. Didnt expect the pump to push that much heat.. Im using a custom sea life velocity pump (T2). Is this normal and I just need to setup a fan next to the pump, or should I be contacting tech support. Loop is bucket of water->pump->waterblock->radiator->bucket and using distilled/ozonated water.

10-06-2002, 04:20 PM	#57
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	My Eheim 1048 was running for almost 2 months, without using the cooling loop, when I forgot to unplug it. (water loop was still complete, dehumidifier, pump, and w/b...just not on system) 7 weeks later, water temp was 1/2 C over ambient, and pump temp "felt" cool. IMO, bad pump.

10-07-2002, 12:48 PM	#60
mo Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada, Montreal Posts: 136	hmm...wouldnt the weight of the block and water kinda introduce an unhealthy tug at the chipset without something holding it in place?

10-07-2002, 01:12 PM	#62
mo Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada, Montreal Posts: 136	Dankies

10-08-2002, 04:49 PM	#63
mo Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada, Montreal Posts: 136	A question for the gurus... How well would a well wound flexible copper tube cool a core that it is wound around? Would having a 3/8 copper tube wound tight around a pump do a good job at cooling it if its running extremely hot?

10-08-2002, 05:00 PM	#65
mo Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada, Montreal Posts: 136	sorry. wasnt clear. The pump is in the middle of the copper coil I'll pump water through the copper tube (Use a Yye at the Pump outtake with a 1/2 inch to 3/8 reducer to the copper coil and have some water go to cool the pump (motor area).

10-08-2002, 05:05 PM	#66
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Cooling the HDD is tricky, I'll get back to that later. In order to cool the pump, you have to have some kind of contact with the heat source. Since I'm sure you're not going to solder copper tubes to the pumps motor coils (if you do, you deserve a spanking!), that would leave you with 2 options: 1-Pray to <insert your deity here> that the heat from the pump will miraculously get into the wound up copper tubing, through thin air. 2-Use a small fan to vent your pump. Your choice... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-08-2002, 05:13 PM	#67
mo Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada, Montreal Posts: 136	Heres the thing... Its been argued that pump heat doesnt really contribute to overall temps that much... But the amount of heat this pump pushes is bad enough that you cant hold it in your hand when its running. What I was thinking was to wind the copper tube around the hot metal casing (so its actually touching it since the body is round) and have some of the water go through it, to avoid having it add unnecessary heat to the inside of the case. Now.. Are you saying that no matter how tight I make it around the body, it would not make a difference in terms of actually cooling the pump and that best option is to just add a fan?

10-08-2002, 05:40 PM	#68
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Of course that's what I'm saying! Think about it for a sec: where does the heat come from? the case of the pump? No, it comes from the motor coils, to which you can't attach a metal part, to cool it, so the solution is to ventilate the pump. What pump are you using, anyways? BTW: that amount of heat may or may not get into the water. Regardless, most of the heat comes from the pumping action, unless your pump is being run at a very inneficient rate. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-08-2002, 05:59 PM	#69
mo Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada, Montreal Posts: 136	Im using the Custom Sealife T2 velocity pump... And Im not getting the difference... Only way I can think of to ventilate it would be to stick a fan infront of the pump (or below it) which again is just cooling the housing not the actual motor coil. The outside casing of the pump is completed sealed. no way for air or even water for that matter to get in. Thats where I came up with the idea of using the water to contain this heat so it doesnt heat up the inside of the case.... PS. patience is a virtue. newbie alert

10-09-2002, 07:49 PM	#71
mo Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada, Montreal Posts: 136	Im installing the maze3 waterblock right now and noticed that the mounting mechanism was missing washers and nuts... I dug up enough nuts to do the job but dont have any nylon washers...do I have to worry about conductivity on the mounting holes???? or can I do without the washers? Im talking about where you hold the screws that the block is going to mount on onto the motherboard.. (nut below the motherboard, and another above it to hold it upright.)

10-11-2002, 07:39 AM	#72
mo Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada, Montreal Posts: 136	Problems ooooook... Finished my reservoir.. which works really well and hasnt leaked in the last 24 hours which is great!! Had a couple leaks from my waterblock hose (my G400 was acting as a water collector for about an hour before I noticed:P) but tightened the screws a bit and now Im leak free. left the system for a full 48 hours after the leak to make sure no more moisture is left. The last piece in my system was to get a decent power supply. Settled for an Antec 470W Silent Power PSU. Hooked everything up, and nothing!! Now before I start panicking I figured Id ask around here and can guess of a setup problem that might be causing this:P: I dont have an insulating washer between my nuts and the motherboard holding the wb screws in place (shouldnt really matter though). Power is getting to the mb since the light is turning on near the power switch (onboard). None of the fans start when I turn on the power supply. Nothing happens when I try to power on the machine... There was no power supply even in the system when the leak happened so I couldnt have messed up my board from that leak:P and even so, my fans are connected to the PSU via 4 pin molex connectors so those should at least start:P What do you guys think?

10-11-2002, 08:09 AM	#73
gone_fishin Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Da UP Posts: 517	Some motherboards require a fan to be plugged into the CPU fan header. Read your mobo instructions to find which one it is. It won't boot unless a fan is detected.

10-11-2002, 08:26 AM	#74
mo Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada, Montreal Posts: 136	I will try that when I get home. However wouldnt the power supply fans and the fans connected to it at least start up even if the mb doesnt?

10-11-2002, 09:19 AM	#75
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	You do need the insulating washers. If you're without, you can either stop by any hardware store, or make some yourself out of cardboard. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

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