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Xtreme Cooling LN2, Dry Ice, Peltiers, etc... All the usual suspects

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Unread 02-29-2008, 03:15 AM   #1
bbaall
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Default help regarding peltier

hi, i am designing a water cooled system with peltier coolers to cool the water outside the case, without fans(as i want to build a complete silent system). but i dont have much technical knowledge about calculating the heat dissipation or flowrate or peltier selection. can i get ome help regarding the formulae needed to find the perfect peltier.
thanks
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Unread 02-29-2008, 11:26 AM   #2
billbartuska
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

What are you going to use to cool the peltier?
Peltier coolers have fans, don't they?
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Unread 02-29-2008, 01:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

I'd have to agree with bill on that one. Even a silent fan that barely moves air helps, consider it. The best way to do it (in my mind) is just get fans quieter than the hard drive. Now I think the rule with todays processors is you want the pelt to be about twice the wattage so on a 95 watt CPU you probably want a 200 watt pelt. But keep in mind that now you have near 300 watts of heat to remove. I suppose with a couple large heater cores / radiators it may be possible but it would be terry hard to cool several peltiers and the computer passively. Another thing, your electric bill is about to get a lot higher Now all of what I just said is if you want to slap the pelt right on the processor. If you want to build a chiller then you can probably use low wattage peltiers and passively cool them with large heat sinks. Now I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the formula for the prefect peltier but if you happen to be cooling an intel processor, head over to their website because they tell the heat output of the processor. Then as I have been told (but may be wrong) you want a peltier of twice the processors wattage to go right on the processor. But a pelt of any wattage can help water cooling but remember if you don't cover that however many watts of heat you have then you still must have a radiator. Also in case you were wondering I strongly recommend a pump.
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Unread 02-29-2008, 03:38 PM   #4
bbaall
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

well thanks a lot ben333 and billbartuska for your replies, ben i am actually not gonna be installing the peltiers on the processor but outside the case to cool the water, for cooling the processor i will be using the normal water cooling with pump and reservior but instead of using fans to cool the water in radiator i will be installing the peltier coolers, so my question really is how much peltier cooler will be enough to cool the water and what effect the flowrate of water makes to the temprature of the hot water. and yes i will be cooling the pentium 4 processor computer. so are there any formulae to decide the peltier or is it just hit and tiral thing.
thanks
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Unread 02-29-2008, 07:36 PM   #5
billbartuska
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

OK, now I'm confused. How are you going to use the peltier to cool a radiator?
Most people that do what you are trying to do (use a peltier to cool the water) attach the peltier to the reservoir, ...which you could mount outside of the case.

as for the calculations, while appearing to be simple unit conversions (CPU watts to *C of the water), they are compounded by the fact that the peltiers cooling is constant, but the heat generated by the CPU varies with load. You may want to make sure that at the lowest CPU load, the peltier won't reduce the water's temperature to below the dewpoint of the ambient air, or condensation will start to appear, and, as we all know, water + electronics = $$$$. Of course insulation is an option. Then you are only limited by the ability of the pump to continue to move the ever thickening (as it cools) liquid.

Soooooo You have to decide what you want to do before you can start figuring out how to get there.
What CPU temp at what CPU load are you shooting for?

I don't think you understand how a peltier works. When you apply current to a peltier one side gets cold, but the other side gets hot. In order for the peltier to function as you envision it (cool the radiator), you have to provide a means for removing the heat from the hot side of the peltier. That is usually done with a heatsink (with or without a fan) or with a waterblock and water cooling system.
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Last edited by billbartuska; 02-29-2008 at 08:13 PM.
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Unread 02-29-2008, 09:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbaall
ben i am actually not gonna be installing the peltiers on the processor but outside the case to cool the water, for cooling the processor i will be using the normal water cooling with pump and reservior but instead of using fans to cool the water in radiator i will be installing the peltier coolers
Well you are not trying mounting pelts to a radiator i assume. That would be illogical. What it sounds like you want to do is make a water chiller with the pelts. Something like this: http://www.wpngnc.org/chiller.htm
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Unread 03-01-2008, 01:21 AM   #7
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

don't waste your $$$ on pelts, they are very inefficient. buy a smaller dorm fridge and remove the cooling elements from it or just place the rad in the freezer portion...

likely to be cheaper and simpler to in act.


ps druckeren post are fun to tpye
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Unread 03-02-2008, 01:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

I don't know about that one, jman... back in the day that worked but I'd guess that on one of today's processors the small condenser lacking compressor of a mini fridge would die.
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Unread 03-02-2008, 09:21 PM   #9
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

i was drunk - what can i say...
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Unread 03-03-2008, 04:19 AM   #10
bbaall
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

thanks for all who replied, well ya i will be using a small chiller just like jaydee advised, so what rating on peltiers should i use in the chiller and how do i calculate?
thanks
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Unread 03-03-2008, 01:13 PM   #11
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

as I said, about twice the wattage of the processor. So for the overclocker who wants really low temps, probably all the pelts added up is three or four hundred watts. I'd say at least 200.
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Unread 03-03-2008, 05:47 PM   #12
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbaall
thanks for all who replied, well ya i will be using a small chiller just like jaydee advised, so what rating on peltiers should i use in the chiller and how do i calculate?
thanks
You are still going to need to use fans though. You have to cool the hotside of the pelts in order to keep the cold side cold.
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Unread 03-12-2008, 12:18 PM   #13
muffy
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

this basically wont work .. if you want silent dont use the TEC's as they add to much heat to the loop
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Unread 05-16-2008, 08:03 AM   #14
alexanderb
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

unless.. you got a swimming pool in the back yard, those are excellent for cooling the hot water from a tec. (it will barely, if at all, heat up the water of the pool, and the hot side of the tec will stay cold
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Unread 04-18-2009, 02:53 AM   #15
Rubicashrama
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

Quote:
Originally Posted by billbartuska View Post
OK, now I'm confused. How are you going to use the peltier to cool a radiator?
Most people that do what you are trying to do (use a peltier to cool the water) attach the peltier to the reservoir, ...which you could mount outside of the case.

as for the calculations, while appearing to be simple unit conversions (CPU watts to *C of the water), they are compounded by the fact that the peltiers cooling is constant, but the heat generated by the CPU varies with load. You may want to make sure that at the lowest CPU load, the peltier won't reduce the water's temperature to below the dewpoint of the ambient air, or condensation will start to appear, and, as we all know, water + electronics = $$$$. Of course insulation is an option. Then you are only limited by the ability of the pump to continue to move the ever thickening (as it cools) liquid.

Soooooo You have to decide what you want to do before you can start figuring out how to get there.
What CPU temp at what CPU load are you shooting for?

I don't think you understand how a peltier works. When you apply current to a peltier one side gets cold, but the other side gets hot. In order for the peltier to function as you envision it (cool the radiator), you have to provide a means for removing the heat from the hot side of the peltier. That is usually done with a heatsink (with or without a fan) or with a waterblock and water cooling system.
I'd have to agree with bill on that one. Even a silent fan that barely moves air helps, consider it. The best way to do it (in my mind) is just get fans quieter than the hard drive. Now I think the rule with todays processors is you want the pelt to be about twice the wattage so on a 95 watt CPU you probably want a 200 watt pelt. But keep in mind that now you have near 300 watts of heat to remove. I suppose with a couple large heater cores / radiators it may be possible but it would be terry hard to cool several peltiers and the computer passively. Another thing, your electric bill is about to get a lot higher Now all of what I just said is if you want to slap the pelt right on the processor.



Nice to meet you !
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Unread 07-21-2009, 12:04 PM   #16
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

hello people !!
i was seeking the same stuff..... lucky me for finding this topic thanks to all you for providing me what i was looking for....
regards
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Unread 07-21-2009, 05:03 PM   #17
ben333
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

It's nice to see spammers taking up an interest in cooling!
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Unread 07-21-2009, 06:24 PM   #18
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben333 View Post
It's nice to see spammers taking up an interest in cooling!
Whats funny is a couple posts up was a complete plagiarizing of your post earlier in the thread. They did that just to spam their links in their sig... They must really be getting desperate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben333 View Post
I'd have to agree with bill on that one. Even a silent fan that barely moves air helps, consider it. The best way to do it (in my mind) is just get fans quieter than the hard drive. Now I think the rule with todays processors is you want the pelt to be about twice the wattage so on a 95 watt CPU you probably want a 200 watt pelt. But keep in mind that now you have near 300 watts of heat to remove. I suppose with a couple large heater cores / radiators it may be possible but it would be terry hard to cool several peltiers and the computer passively. Another thing, your electric bill is about to get a lot higher Now all of what I just said is if you want to slap the pelt right on the processor. If you want to build a chiller then you can probably use low wattage peltiers and passively cool them with large heat sinks. Now I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the formula for the prefect peltier but if you happen to be cooling an intel processor, head over to their website because they tell the heat output of the processor. Then as I have been told (but may be wrong) you want a peltier of twice the processors wattage to go right on the processor. But a pelt of any wattage can help water cooling but remember if you don't cover that however many watts of heat you have then you still must have a radiator. Also in case you were wondering I strongly recommend a pump.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubicashrama View Post
I'd have to agree with bill on that one. Even a silent fan that barely moves air helps, consider it. The best way to do it (in my mind) is just get fans quieter than the hard drive. Now I think the rule with todays processors is you want the pelt to be about twice the wattage so on a 95 watt CPU you probably want a 200 watt pelt. But keep in mind that now you have near 300 watts of heat to remove. I suppose with a couple large heater cores / radiators it may be possible but it would be terry hard to cool several peltiers and the computer passively. Another thing, your electric bill is about to get a lot higher Now all of what I just said is if you want to slap the pelt right on the processor.



Nice to meet you !
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Unread 07-22-2009, 09:54 AM   #19
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

Wow, I didn't even notice that. I even read the first line of his post
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Unread 03-09-2011, 12:46 AM   #20
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Default Re: help regarding peltier

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