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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums. |
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12-01-2005, 08:14 AM | #401 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Willmar MN/Fargo ND
Posts: 504
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
jaydee, thats a big fat keycutter like thing, they actually can plow through pretty good sometimes.
Those .3mm fins look quite small and easily messupable. I dont think i would want to cut much smaller than .02" Jon |
12-01-2005, 06:09 PM | #402 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Sweden
Posts: 66
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
Roscal, thats one nice block there. By that i mean machiningly wise of course. The height of the fins are not that optimal for heat transfer considering the fins are around half a milimeter. But still, thats some awesome work!
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12-04-2005, 01:07 PM | #403 |
The Pro/Life Support System
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 4,041
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
So I still havent seen any info from Swiftech about the QC issues that these blocks have... If I was gabe I would be all about making this stuff right cause big chunks of copper flowing around your system isnt really a good thing.
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Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton. |
12-04-2005, 01:12 PM | #404 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: inside my computers
Posts: 113
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
... nor is having a cracked top due to weak molding...
I still havn't got a response from anyone about this. |
12-04-2005, 01:16 PM | #405 |
Put up or Shut Up
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 6,506
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
They should be recalled if more than a few blocks have these problems.
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12-04-2005, 01:19 PM | #406 | |
The Pro/Life Support System
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 4,041
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
Quote:
Orkan I would think that if you want to get more mindshare on that specificly why not start a thread about the quality issues with the Apogee. that seems to be what you are focused on and I thick could be useful.
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Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton. |
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12-04-2005, 01:25 PM | #407 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 109
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
seams all we have to go on is the opinion of an Xswiftecher who implys there test bed is fine and there data stands.... till some1 we all trust tests it (looks at ph) its all wild speculashon/wet patches/dead pumps
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"<pH> I'll stab you in the genitals with a rusty shank if you touch my computer stuff" "we are only 'mean' to the persistently ignorant, lazy, and anyone who questions us" BillA |
12-04-2005, 02:44 PM | #408 |
CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered"
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106
Posts: 4,440
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
for sure the opinion of any/all is superior to actual experience
ah procooling, at heart still fanboyism flatline you are an ass, my 'opinion' is based on facts and experience - something no one else here has with a TTV repeatable data is defined as good, the bed and method are defined by Swiftech - it is Stew who is speculating and casting aspersions on a test platform he has never used, and of course his followers who have 'trust' chime in like hounds on the scent contributing nothing but speculations – any and all of which trump any facts I'm waiting for Stew to tell us the data is wrong, but he already has. wrong data is a null concept, it is correct or not if you are unable to understand this, set your filter for those you 'trust' (select Stew not BillA) did Stew approve your ‘trusted source’ list ? will you share it with us ? is there a hierarchy to resolve conflicts ? or is that done by vote ? or by Stew directly ? (he is the ‘most trusted’ no ?) |
12-04-2005, 03:31 PM | #409 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 109
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
i didnt bring any names to my post
"ah procooling, at heart still fanboyism" says king fan boy himself you allready posted all about "swiftech ripoffs" b4 actualy looking what post was on about "for sure the opinion of any/all is superior to actual experience" did u personaly test the water block? if so pls post YOUR results in YOUR icle kingdom "I'm waiting for Stew to tell us the data is wrong" im waiting for his gpu block (long overdue) strange what we wait 4 "set your filter for those you 'trust' (select Stew not BillA)" il set my filter to ppl who are not just about to insult other ppl and inflate there own sence worth "did Stew approve your ‘trusted source’ list ?" you seam obbsessed with stew do you have a crush on him ? "will you share it with us ?" there is no us there is you on your all knowing thrown and us "uninformed" "is there a hierarchy to resolve conflicts ? or is that done by vote ? or by Stew directly ? (he is the ‘most trusted’ no ?)" stew stew stew its all his folt (crush showing again?)
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"<pH> I'll stab you in the genitals with a rusty shank if you touch my computer stuff" "we are only 'mean' to the persistently ignorant, lazy, and anyone who questions us" BillA |
12-04-2005, 03:41 PM | #410 |
The Pro/Life Support System
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 4,041
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
I am starting to think the Apogee is just a bad F'n omen. I don't think theres ever been this much controversy over a block.
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Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton. |
12-04-2005, 03:42 PM | #411 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 109
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
free advertizeing rules!
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"<pH> I'll stab you in the genitals with a rusty shank if you touch my computer stuff" "we are only 'mean' to the persistently ignorant, lazy, and anyone who questions us" BillA |
12-04-2005, 03:43 PM | #412 | |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alberta
Posts: 631
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
Quote:
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12-04-2005, 03:44 PM | #413 |
CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered"
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106
Posts: 4,440
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
just annoyed that a good methodology was dismissed by speculation
that others follow w/o analysis is regretable you realize that no testing will change the performance of the wb ? we are spectators |
12-04-2005, 03:46 PM | #414 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 109
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
wud like to know as his name seamed to have jumped in to a post ALOT id quite like to why he was pointed to no less than 4 times out of the blue? another thread gone off topic? oh yes we talking about testbeds.... right..
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"<pH> I'll stab you in the genitals with a rusty shank if you touch my computer stuff" "we are only 'mean' to the persistently ignorant, lazy, and anyone who questions us" BillA |
12-04-2005, 03:49 PM | #415 |
The Pro/Life Support System
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 4,041
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
I got an idea... why don't you 2 hop into chat, and sort this out.. just click the link at the top of the page, then you can get this all taken care of without the tennis like batting back and forth.
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/javachat.php right there
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Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton. |
12-04-2005, 03:53 PM | #416 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 383
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
The "U.S. Open" of the procooling forums.
....anyone else notice that this thread has become ENORMOUS? |
12-04-2005, 03:58 PM | #417 |
CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered"
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
I made 2 posts on this page, is that a problem Joe ?
you hyper too ? I put fl on the ignore list, done here; I'll let the thread be as well Ta |
12-04-2005, 04:02 PM | #418 |
The Pro/Life Support System
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 4,041
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
No bill not hyper, just dont want to see another 4 page argument break out. a lil drama is cool, but maybe its just me getting tired of it this weekend. (pretty much I would like to be able to go back working on the site and not having to referee a thread..)
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Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton. |
12-04-2005, 04:33 PM | #419 | |
Put up or Shut Up
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 6,506
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
Quote:
But it really dosn't matter at this point. The block isn't even functional at this point it seems. |
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12-04-2005, 04:58 PM | #420 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Da UP
Posts: 517
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
I think all of us should be thankfull that someone who has had direct contact and experience with a TTV has posted about it here.
It is made by Intel (who has massive R&D budget) whereas those here cannot even make a stoneage heatdie setup that a caveman would appreciate. |
12-04-2005, 05:06 PM | #421 | |
Put up or Shut Up
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Spokane WA
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
Quote:
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12-04-2005, 05:45 PM | #422 | |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Da UP
Posts: 517
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
Quote:
The contested comparison of the two blocks in question has Swiftech giving data all generated from the use of a TTV wheras Cathar generated his own non-disclosed (we are left to just trust him on this) data from some home mobo setup. BillA has stated that all the comparison Swiftech data were generated from the same methodology and testbed using the Intel TTV. Further it is clear to me that the actual temp of any die is not of value because the temp of the IHS (or case temp as they call it) is more usefull because it eliminates one variable (the extra tim layer). The more variables elliminated, increases the value of the data. Keeping this concept in mind, the TTV package IMO is more likely to have the sensors arrayed in a more precisely consistant manner than any home brewed testing methodology (elliminating or minimalizing another variable). Given we take for granted that all of Swiftechs data is generated from the same test model (the main componant of which was made by Intel), we do have consistant data to go by. Cathar provided zero data. True, nobody will be able to exactly replicate a TTV at home for comparison but how can we bitch about a company trying to provide us with data using an industry standard tool? Remember the days of blocks selling on bling, putting pigtailed shaped curly cues in the channels or just following DIY trends with no real data to back them up? |
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12-04-2005, 07:36 PM | #423 | |
Put up or Shut Up
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 6,506
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
Quote:
Also don't get to exited about the TTV. Even Intel says it shouldn't be used for such testing. |
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12-05-2005, 12:39 AM | #424 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: ohio
Posts: 140
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
Finally hooked up my apogees to the wmd30 I have. Neither appear to leak as of yet (was holding my breath on that one). Though I will have to be careful with the tubing attached to the barbs, I can easily see how a misguided hand could yank the tubing too hard and cause the top plate to crack.
Anyway, I did a few 'bucket' flow tests. Actually I measured out 56 liters into a large container and did the tests with that. I timed 4 trials on each of 3 setups: 1st setup: pump with tubing on inlet and outlet 2nd setup: pump with same tubing and 1 apogee block connected (1/2" barbs) 3rd setup: pump with same tubing and 2 apogee blocks connected (1/2" barbs) Graph and Data table attached. Graph includes WMD-30RZT curve (taken from reefs.org info), Apogee C/W (swiftech data, plotted on secondary axis), Apogee pressure drop (taken from swiftech data) and 2xApogee pressure drop (for my second block in series). The pressure drop data was extrapolated to hit the wmd curve. The vertical lines are the three average flow rates I 'measured.' (In quotes because I don't have the equipment to properly do such. But hopefully this isn't complete garbage) EDIT (added): The pressure drop I infer due to the apogee blocks seems well under what the swiftech graph shows - IF the iwaki manuf. data is to be trusted. Has there been an independent PQ curve done for the 30RZT? (Since Bill backs up Swift. testing I'm more inclined to believe that for now...) Anyway, continuing on (using probably wrong PQ curve): At ~3.9 gpm the predicted (extrapolated from swift data) PD for the apogee is ~14 ft of water or 6.07psi. The actual PD found from the flow rate and iwaki PQ curve is more like ~4 ft of water or 1.7psi. The added pressure drop from the second block, only another 3.5 ft of water (1.5 psi) at 3.5 gpm, where the data predicts there should be a drop of ~ 12 ft of water (5.2 psi). --Jay Last edited by Albigger; 12-05-2005 at 03:46 AM. |
12-05-2005, 05:49 AM | #425 | ||
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Vallentuna, Sweden
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Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
Quote:
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