is Swiftech insolvent ? - Page 2

BillA · 10-28-2005, 06:20 PM

be real Stew,
the difficulty is defining a better system, or at least effective curbs
- curbs on what ? human greed ?

exploitation has limits, our populations and expectations do not
who gets what ? how will this be decided in a 'needy' world ?

I'm glad I'm old (and had the luck to be born at the top of the heap ?)

Les
no, there are people worth killing

maxSaleen · 10-28-2005, 06:47 PM

Off Topic:

If a person wishes only to harm society, to the point that they do not care who they harm or kill, is it not worth it to kill them? What is the point of keeping them alive?

I am not for capital punishment, but I do not believe that certain people should be allowed to live. I'm talking about terrorists here.

jaydee · 10-28-2005, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathar

Wow Bill. Living proof that there are Americans who see through the extreme capitalistic bullshit.

Success is in the eye of the beholder. I am far from rich money wise and personally don't mind it at all. I live pay check to pay check as it is now and I get by pretty well. I have a perfect 8yo daughter that couldn't grow up any better if I wanted her to and I have enough extra cash to piss away on testing stuff and some comp stuff here and there. I just quit a job this summer that paid a hell of a lot more than I am making now but yet I feel a lot better being home and it is a lot less stressful job I have now. They seem to like my work as well so the future dosn't look to bad.

Success to me is accomplishment. So far at age 29 I feel successful.

BillA · 10-28-2005, 07:23 PM

https://www.otcstockinfo.com/reposit...58376_FR35.pdf
compare to (a chore)
https://www.otcstockinfo.com/reposit...58376_FR33.pdf

anyone who understands financial statements ?

cash and cash equ. +$24k (no idea what this is)
accts rec +$10k
raw matls -$8k
prop & equip -$7k

accts pay +$9k
net income -$9k (down 50% from previous quarter)
under Capital: the Common Stock went from $65k -> $98k
how does this happen ?

??

Cathar · 10-28-2005, 07:24 PM

I did try to keep out of this thread.

Still Bill, it must be said, and I will say it.

What can be served through attacking Swiftech in a public forum when you feel that they owe you money? If, as a result of your post, you damage Swiftech's sales, both present and future, then surely that results in an even smaller chance of getting a satisfactory resolution to the issue?

If you have a legitimate grievance with Swiftech, then surely such a matter is best handled privately through the appropriate legal channels, and then only when ALL avenues are exhausted and you've given up all hope of ever recovering that which you feel is owed, then you'd be possibly justified in such a public display.

It would seem to me that you've now opened yourself up to a legitimate counter-argument whereby Swiftech could potentially counter-sue you for damages.

Just food for thought. Take it or leave it. If it were I, I would have handled it differently, that's all I'm saying.

jaydee · 10-28-2005, 07:56 PM

Seems to me Bill is trying to figure out if Gabe intentionally is not paying him what he is owed or of Gabe simply does not have the cash to pay him?

Is this the right way to figure it out? I don't know.

In any event Swiftech dose not appear to be making much money. Not nearly as much as I suspected. Their year to date stats are what I would have expected for a month.

Interesting thread though. Hoprfully not harmfull to anyone.

BillA · 10-28-2005, 08:06 PM

a lament Stew, no expectation of a positive action by Gabe who signs all checks

what is a negotiation regarding a unilaterally terminated payment of a commitment expressly agreed to ?
you are telling me that after 2yrs 4mos I should be begging Gabe to begin again to repay me ?

next,you would suggest that I act "through the appropriate legal channels"
no Stew, when I have to go to a lawyer I have lost
period, it is written off
that then was the starting point of this thread

be as realistic as is the market, which depends not on the approbation by me of corporate management
(in English, Swiftech products sell on their merits - as they should, no suggestion otherwise eh ?)

"when you feel that they owe you money?"
no, feel is not correct - its on the balance sheet
politically correct speech is crap, I do not need your aspersions

be grateful your exposure is x-fold less than mine
read those statements, I did not attack Swiftech - Swiftech is dropping into a hole
looking for a Santa Claus shortly

Cathar · 10-28-2005, 08:17 PM

No aspersion here Bill. I don't know the full story. Just commenting on what's been presented here, which is just one person "lamenting".

Knew I should've kept out of it. Am just seeking to propose a more congenial resolution. Clearly that's not welcome, so I'll take my comments elsewhere.

Lothar5150 · 10-28-2005, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathar

I did try to keep out of this thread.

Still Bill, it must be said, and I will say it.

What can be served through attacking Swiftech in a public forum when you feel that they owe you money? If, as a result of your post, you damage Swiftech's sales, both present and future, then surely that results in an even smaller chance of getting a satisfactory resolution to the issue?

If you have a legitimate grievance with Swiftech, then surely such a matter is best handled privately through the appropriate legal channels, and then only when ALL avenues are exhausted and you've given up all hope of ever recovering that which you feel is owed, then you'd be possibly justified in such a public display.

It would seem to me that you've now opened yourself up to a legitimate counter-argument whereby Swiftech could potentially counter-sue you for damages.

Just food for thought. Take it or leave it. If it were I, I would have handled it differently, that's all I'm saying.

Swiftech is now a publicly traded company and its finances are a matter of public record. Bill asking questions about Swiftech solvency based on such records are legitimate and no grounds for a legal action.

BillA · 10-28-2005, 08:33 PM

comeon, sure its welcome - just not realistic
good solutions are real ones

greenman100 · 10-28-2005, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathar

If you have a legitimate grievance with Swiftech, then surely such a matter is best handled privately through the appropriate legal channels, and then only when ALL avenues are exhausted and you've given up all hope of ever recovering that which you feel is owed, then you'd be possibly justified in such a public display.

Agreed. No one likes dirty laundry....keep it between you and Swiftech

Cathar · 10-28-2005, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unregistered

comeon, sure its welcome - just not realistic
good solutions are real ones

Hmmm, a suggestion to seek resolution through the appropriate legal channels is not realistic? As opposed to what? Having a public bitch-fest about it here at Procooling?

Good friends tell the truth Bill. Regardless of how hard it is to swallow.

jaydee · 10-28-2005, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenman100

Agreed. No one likes dirty laundry....keep it between you and Swiftech

Completely wrong IMO. News organizations bank on "dirty laundry". it is what brings in the largest ratings. Conspiracies and wrong doings are what makes shows like "Cops", "Law and Order", "CSI" and similar so popular. People love it!

greenman100 · 10-28-2005, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydee

Completely wrong IMO. News organizations bank on "dirty laundry". it is what brings in the largest ratings. Conspiracies and wrong doings are what makes shows like "Cops", "Law and Order", "CSI" and similar so popular. People love it!

hmmm, perhaps I worded that incorrectly.

much of america likes dirty laundry....but I'd how things were a little different here. the focus of this forum is exploring extreme cooling...not exposing companies

BillA · 10-28-2005, 09:23 PM

click on bro
someone refusing to pay an agreed repayment should NOT expect me not to tell 'their' world what they are doing

have you actually dropped 60k to a previous employer ?
not your $, nor your problem: click on bro

you would have employees be silent so more employees could be deceived ?

Cathar
wages are paid before general creditors, I have a very real, immediate, and ongoing interest in the actual financial state of Swiftech; all the more so since Gabe stopped paying me

I will be paid
what about those set to lose their jobs ?
there are many dimensions to this

greenman100 · 10-28-2005, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unregistered

you would have employees be silent so more employees could be deceived ?

I would have employees handle things in a more....traditional manner, through legal action.

Do you think ProCooling actually impacts Swiftech very much at all? I assure you, teh majority of Swiftech buyers do NOT frequent these forums.

I am sure there is a side to the story we are not hearing.

BillA · 10-28-2005, 09:43 PM

I'm now not at all sure its malice, the financial statement is dire

legal action favors the employer,
no intention at all to impact Swiftech buyers - where you seeing that ?

lol, always another side

Cathar · 10-28-2005, 09:46 PM

Not sure what you're on about Bill. What is "click on bro"?

Is Procooling a Swiftech staff forum? Is Procooling an investor financial advisory site?

$60K in unpaid salary? How did it get that high? I would've been walking out the door at $5K.

Like I said, I don't know the full story. I don't know what agreement there was between Gabe and yourself regarding your salary. I find it a little difficult to understand how you would ever allow an employer to owe you $60K in salary though. Different matter if it were a contract. If it was a contracted arrangement then disclose the terms of that contract while we're all here now. If it wasn't, and you allowed yourself to be taken advantage of to the tune of $60K in unpaid salary, then I don't know what to say.

Like greenman100 says, seems to me that there's a side we're not hearing. I've said it before and I'll say it again, we don't know the full story, and airing it in public at a cooling enthusiast forum is certainly not informing the investors nor particularly helping the rest of Swiftech's employees reach an understanding that they probably already have reached themselves if Swiftech was actively engaged in short-paying staff on agreed salaries.

BillA · 10-28-2005, 10:11 PM

hmm, into it now
the details in summary: 50% deferred compensation, no interest, no min pmt, no max pmt time
payable at sales goals - met but not profitable
-> no pmt to endanger financial well-being of co

ok, I am an ass for agreeing to such and a 10-fold ass for staying almost 2 yrs
I had a specific agreement to train Stephen and be repaid, Gabe got what he needed and stopped paying me

responsable companies do not discard employee obgliations in such a manner (I worked 10+hrs/day)

jaydee · 10-28-2005, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenman100

hmmm, perhaps I worded that incorrectly.

much of america likes dirty laundry....but I'd how things were a little different here. the focus of this forum is exploring extreme cooling...not exposing companies

Don't play "just in America" bull shit. Conflict gets people's attention, it is used and abused by everyone in the world.

Also are you sure this site is focused on Extreme Cooling? I have only seen a couple extreme cooling projects since I started coming here. Seems to me the focus of this site is cutting the bull shit and improving information about cooling.

jaydee · 10-28-2005, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unregistered

-> no pmt to endanger financial well-being of co

According to those reports that maybe the issue. They don't even have $60K ifI am reading it correctly. It also dosn't look as if they will anytime soon.

Etacovda · 10-28-2005, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydee

Don't play "just in America" bull shit. Conflict gets people's attention, it is used and abused by everyone in the world.

Also are you sure this site is focused on Extreme Cooling? I have only seen a couple extreme cooling projects since I started coming here. Seems to me the focus of this site is cutting the bull shit and improving information about cooling.

Indeed, everyone thats vaguely western/UK loves that kind of bullshit - look at soap operas and the likes.

Waterbug · 10-28-2005, 11:18 PM

Bill, i will keep out of this discussion, but just out of curiosity for us that not hang around here so often and like to know more to this story. Who is this Stephen? And why did you train him? Could he fill your shoes just like that at Swiftech, with all the knowledge in the area that you have behind you? Is it realy possible to train another Bill?

DryFire · 10-28-2005, 11:24 PM

I don't think unpayed salary would get any attention unless it was done on a massive scale. Def. not soap opraey enough most people.

I'm gonna have to agree with a few other people in this thread. what exactly does this accomplish? I only see public complaint as hurting whatever chances you have of resolving this in your favor, no matter how slim they may be.

But I'm confused, did you agree to a 50% differment w/o a contract? or did the contrac simply not specify a time for the loan (if you can call it that) to be repaid?

Lothar5150 · 10-28-2005, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydee

According to those reports that maybe the issue. They don't even have $60K ifI am reading it correctly. It also dosn't look as if they will anytime soon.

It looks like over half of the total current assets are not easily converted to cash. Only $142,791 in cash or easily converted assets and $166,706 in current liabilities. That puts the company $23,915 in the hole on top of an $11,879 loss for the 3D QTR. All the reports show that the company has used $56,287 of $59,000 on its line of credit with the bank. It is highly unlikely that the company can obtain more credit with these financials.

Based on the financial record the company has clearly been mismanaged financially. This is a lesson on how to have a great brand and product line then fail.

@Cathar we have had a few disputes on the importance of good leadership/management, let these financial statements be clear real world examples what happens to a company with out good leadership/management…innovation only gets you a quarter of the way home.

I hope no one bought stock on a hot tip…

No one ever complains about insider tips when they make money. However, everyone comes forward with they loose money.

10-28-2005, 06:20 PM	#26
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	be real Stew, the difficulty is defining a better system, or at least effective curbs - curbs on what ? human greed ? exploitation has limits, our populations and expectations do not who gets what ? how will this be decided in a 'needy' world ? I'm glad I'm old (and had the luck to be born at the top of the heap ?) Les no, there are people worth killing

10-28-2005, 06:47 PM	#27
maxSaleen Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 383	Off Topic: If a person wishes only to harm society, to the point that they do not care who they harm or kill, is it not worth it to kill them? What is the point of keeping them alive? I am not for capital punishment, but I do not believe that certain people should be allowed to live. I'm talking about terrorists here.

10-28-2005, 07:23 PM	#29
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	https://www.otcstockinfo.com/reposit...58376_FR35.pdf compare to (a chore) https://www.otcstockinfo.com/reposit...58376_FR33.pdf anyone who understands financial statements ? cash and cash equ. +$24k (no idea what this is) accts rec +$10k raw matls -$8k prop & equip -$7k accts pay +$9k net income -$9k (down 50% from previous quarter) under Capital: the Common Stock went from $65k -> $98k how does this happen ? ??

10-28-2005, 07:24 PM	#30
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	I did try to keep out of this thread. Still Bill, it must be said, and I will say it. What can be served through attacking Swiftech in a public forum when you feel that they owe you money? If, as a result of your post, you damage Swiftech's sales, both present and future, then surely that results in an even smaller chance of getting a satisfactory resolution to the issue? If you have a legitimate grievance with Swiftech, then surely such a matter is best handled privately through the appropriate legal channels, and then only when ALL avenues are exhausted and you've given up all hope of ever recovering that which you feel is owed, then you'd be possibly justified in such a public display. It would seem to me that you've now opened yourself up to a legitimate counter-argument whereby Swiftech could potentially counter-sue you for damages. Just food for thought. Take it or leave it. If it were I, I would have handled it differently, that's all I'm saying.

10-28-2005, 07:56 PM	#31
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Seems to me Bill is trying to figure out if Gabe intentionally is not paying him what he is owed or of Gabe simply does not have the cash to pay him? Is this the right way to figure it out? I don't know. In any event Swiftech dose not appear to be making much money. Not nearly as much as I suspected. Their year to date stats are what I would have expected for a month. Interesting thread though. Hoprfully not harmfull to anyone.

10-28-2005, 08:06 PM	#32
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	a lament Stew, no expectation of a positive action by Gabe who signs all checks what is a negotiation regarding a unilaterally terminated payment of a commitment expressly agreed to ? you are telling me that after 2yrs 4mos I should be begging Gabe to begin again to repay me ? next,you would suggest that I act "through the appropriate legal channels" no Stew, when I have to go to a lawyer I have lost period, it is written off that then was the starting point of this thread be as realistic as is the market, which depends not on the approbation by me of corporate management (in English, Swiftech products sell on their merits - as they should, no suggestion otherwise eh ?) "when you feel that they owe you money?" no, feel is not correct - its on the balance sheet politically correct speech is crap, I do not need your aspersions be grateful your exposure is x-fold less than mine read those statements, I did not attack Swiftech - Swiftech is dropping into a hole looking for a Santa Claus shortly

10-28-2005, 08:17 PM	#33
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	No aspersion here Bill. I don't know the full story. Just commenting on what's been presented here, which is just one person "lamenting". Knew I should've kept out of it. Am just seeking to propose a more congenial resolution. Clearly that's not welcome, so I'll take my comments elsewhere.

10-28-2005, 08:33 PM	#35
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	comeon, sure its welcome - just not realistic good solutions are real ones

10-28-2005, 09:23 PM	#40
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	click on bro someone refusing to pay an agreed repayment should NOT expect me not to tell 'their' world what they are doing have you actually dropped 60k to a previous employer ? not your $, nor your problem: click on bro you would have employees be silent so more employees could be deceived ? Cathar wages are paid before general creditors, I have a very real, immediate, and ongoing interest in the actual financial state of Swiftech; all the more so since Gabe stopped paying me I will be paid what about those set to lose their jobs ? there are many dimensions to this

10-28-2005, 09:43 PM	#42
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	I'm now not at all sure its malice, the financial statement is dire legal action favors the employer, no intention at all to impact Swiftech buyers - where you seeing that ? lol, always another side

10-28-2005, 09:46 PM	#43
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	Not sure what you're on about Bill. What is "click on bro"? Is Procooling a Swiftech staff forum? Is Procooling an investor financial advisory site? $60K in unpaid salary? How did it get that high? I would've been walking out the door at $5K. Like I said, I don't know the full story. I don't know what agreement there was between Gabe and yourself regarding your salary. I find it a little difficult to understand how you would ever allow an employer to owe you $60K in salary though. Different matter if it were a contract. If it was a contracted arrangement then disclose the terms of that contract while we're all here now. If it wasn't, and you allowed yourself to be taken advantage of to the tune of $60K in unpaid salary, then I don't know what to say. Like greenman100 says, seems to me that there's a side we're not hearing. I've said it before and I'll say it again, we don't know the full story, and airing it in public at a cooling enthusiast forum is certainly not informing the investors nor particularly helping the rest of Swiftech's employees reach an understanding that they probably already have reached themselves if Swiftech was actively engaged in short-paying staff on agreed salaries.

10-28-2005, 10:11 PM	#44
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	hmm, into it now the details in summary: 50% deferred compensation, no interest, no min pmt, no max pmt time payable at sales goals - met but not profitable -> no pmt to endanger financial well-being of co ok, I am an ass for agreeing to such and a 10-fold ass for staying almost 2 yrs I had a specific agreement to train Stephen and be repaid, Gabe got what he needed and stopped paying me responsable companies do not discard employee obgliations in such a manner (I worked 10+hrs/day)

10-28-2005, 11:18 PM	#48
Waterbug Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: sweden Posts: 30	Bill, i will keep out of this discussion, but just out of curiosity for us that not hang around here so often and like to know more to this story. Who is this Stephen? And why did you train him? Could he fill your shoes just like that at Swiftech, with all the knowledge in the area that you have behind you? Is it realy possible to train another Bill?

10-28-2005, 11:24 PM	#49
DryFire Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 148	I don't think unpayed salary would get any attention unless it was done on a massive scale. Def. not soap opraey enough most people. I'm gonna have to agree with a few other people in this thread. what exactly does this accomplish? I only see public complaint as hurting whatever chances you have of resolving this in your favor, no matter how slim they may be. But I'm confused, did you agree to a 50% differment w/o a contract? or did the contrac simply not specify a time for the loan (if you can call it that) to be repaid?

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