Knock off LRWW, I think @ ebay

Blackeagle · 08-06-2003, 07:25 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=42001

Look pretty close, but I believe I count one extra fin.

hydrogen18 · 08-06-2003, 07:29 PM

The one from from D-Tek looks a little diff, as in the bolts holding it together are different.

winewood · 08-07-2003, 03:43 AM

another one..

This one looks even better. I didn't thing NeoMoses would have done this.. Thing is, the lwrr is definitely easier to copy than some of the others.

#Rotor · 08-07-2003, 06:27 AM

now that is ripping the designs master off, for some cheap dow...

Shame on them. I hope the Gen.pub is educated enough not to support such thievory, but to rather get it from where the Master thereof will at least see something for it..

jaydee · 08-07-2003, 10:34 AM

What pisses me off more than anything is this asshole linked to the White Water results at overclockers and is trying ot make people think it is an original White Water. It has sever design flaws in it compared to the White Water. The channels are to thin, the fins are to wide, the barbs are to small, and there is no impingment! All he did was mill a groove in the middle of the channels.

As for the Nemisis, it is a better design but still short of the White Water and the prick that made is a joke to boot. We been over it with him before.

These little chicken shits are in it for the money and unable to be remotely original. They are trying to use the White Water publicity to fool idiots that do not know any better into buying their lesser designs of it. Then again that pretty much sums up Corporate America.

nikhsub1 · 08-07-2003, 11:58 AM

I replied to the same subject over HERE and it pisses me off too. The block isnt even close to a WW, where it the o-ring? And those horrible screws. I could care less if the guy sells a million of them, the thing that chaffs my arse is the linking to the BillA review of the WW inferring that it's performance is similar. I have emailed a complaint to ebay and to the owner of the auction.

BillA · 08-07-2003, 12:21 PM

as did I

#Rotor · 08-07-2003, 04:56 PM

I call for a front page mention of this, In an effort to educate people towards these kind of abominations lurking out there.... I am going to link it on my site, I think it would be appropriate for all that has the ability and some cyberspace real-estate, to do so too....if they want.....

nikhsub1 · 08-07-2003, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by #Rotor
I call for a front page mention of this, In an effort to educate people towards these kind of abominations lurking out there.... I am going to link it on my site, I think it would be appropriate for all that has the ability and some cyberspace real-estate, to do so too....if they want.....

Agreed! It would be hilarious if JoeC at OC.com put up a temp page with the guys link saying "The block on EBAY is a fake and will not perform like a REAL WW" or something to that effect.

redleader · 08-07-2003, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nikhsub1
Agreed! It would be hilarious if JoeC at OC.com put up a temp page with the guys link saying "The block on EBAY is a fake and will not perform like a REAL WW" or something to that effect.

This really needs to happen. Anyone close enough to Joe to suggest it?

jaydee · 08-07-2003, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by #Rotor
I call for a front page mention of this, In an effort to educate people towards these kind of abominations lurking out there.... I am going to link it on my site, I think it would be appropriate for all that has the ability and some cyberspace real-estate, to do so too....if they want.....

I only get about 30 unique hits a day on my site but I will throw it on the front page after I get home tonight.

#Rotor · 08-07-2003, 05:57 PM

30 hits, is 30 potential customers of those pricks, that just got shown the light...

I'm not linking to Ebay..... I'm linking into this thread.... some won't get the gist if you link to ebay.... this thread will at least explain to them what it's all about....

jaydee · 08-07-2003, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by #Rotor
30 hits, is 30 potential customers of those pricks, that just got shown the light...

I'm not linking to Ebay..... I'm linking into this thread.... some won't get the gist if you link to ebay.... this thread will at least explain to them what it's all about....

Thats what I am also going to do with a summery of what I think about it. Will be home on a few hours and will be on the first thing to do list when I get there.

winewood · 08-07-2003, 11:28 PM

Now don't go flaming me all at once...

technically, the white water was constructed and out in the public domain. I don't support somone ripping off anything, however in a court of law I don't see how they could do jack squat to stop them from making clones. If danger den started cranking these out... could anyone stop them? I don't understand how they could.
If a court room couldn't stop this guy from making and selling these, why would ebay give a care what so ever to this guy making a near ww clone? As to statements of perfomance, ebay is not going to understand, much less be able to draw conclusions that this as false advertising.
You guys are appalled at the gaul of NeoMoses and that other guy, however realistically stop and ask youself what you really expect ebay to do about it?

I don't like the link to bills page unless there was a clear disclaimer that it is only for informational purposes on similar design techniques. However he didn't say that. Is this an expressly forbidden rule in ebay?

Zhentar · 08-07-2003, 11:54 PM

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that if cathar is licensing the LRWW to D-Tek, someone somewhere owns a patent or copyright on the design.

And implying that a considerably different (and by all indications, better) product is in fact the one your selling can't be legal, copyrighted or not.

jaydee · 08-07-2003, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by winewood
Now don't go flaming me all at once...

technically, the white water was constructed and out in the public domain. I don't support somone ripping off anything, however in a court of law I don't see how they could do jack squat to stop them from making clones. If danger den started cranking these out... could anyone stop them? I don't understand how they could.
If a court room couldn't stop this guy from making and selling these, why would ebay give a care what so ever to this guy making a near ww clone? As to statements of perfomance, ebay is not going to understand, much less be able to draw conclusions that this as false advertising.
You guys are appalled at the gaul of NeoMoses and that other guy, however realistically stop and ask youself what you really expect ebay to do about it?

I don't like the link to bills page unless there was a clear disclaimer that it is only for informational purposes on similar design techniques. However he didn't say that. Is this an expressly forbidden rule in ebay?

False advertizing. He is linking from information that was not paid for by him and is not about his product and using it to promote his product. Simple case of false advertizing and mis information to blindly lead customers into buying a product they think is something different. His little design sentance is irrelevant being it isn't even close to a real White Water. Which adds to the false advertizing. You don't see AMD using specs from Intel in an attempt to make people think they are buying an Intel when they really get an AMD. it is against the law and it can be inforced if you have the money.

All I can do is post a blurb on my site and speak my peace on these forums though. If I was rich I would assist in a law suite!

hydrogen18 · 08-08-2003, 12:16 AM

umm, IMHO, DD does steal ideas(bash me if you want, but ure like defending satan to me, so ill just ignore you). A quick look here shows what I mean, and shows waterblock design theft isnt isolated to the WW...

http://forums.digital-explosion.co.u...opic.php?t=607

http://forums.digital-explosion.co.u...opic.php?t=569

http://forums.digital-explosion.co.u...opic.php?t=525

winewood · 08-08-2003, 01:08 AM

well... I'd never defend Satan.. LOL
I had no idea that they did that kind of stuff. First time I even saw the accusation.

HOWEVER, I have noticed that this is not stopping many if any from buying the maze4. When it gets down to it, people are going to buy what they want wherever or however it was designed. (look at the RIAA and pirated cd's.. 1/3 are illegally made)
I don't think a waterblock is patentable. The idea is already mainstream and other than a strict design patent.. (2 years to get one formalized) all they have to do is change it slightly and bingo!

This all is a big shame, however honestly.. the guy just has to change a wording or two and he is back in business. I remember a post from Liquid Rulez where he posted his waterblock with cad pics. He said he didn't want anyone stealing his ideas and he would be pizzed if somone did. I suggested he should just delete the post if he didn't want ppl copying him. The next business the posts were deleted.

Correct me if im wrong, but that lrww is not copyrighted or patented. Dtek just is throwing Cathar the proverbial "bone" because they understood that it makes good business to do so. This was Cathar supports them and is a statesman in dealing with questions on his design. If they didn't "license" it from him, they could still be whipping those blocks out.

Am I misinformed in my understandings?

LiquidRulez · 08-08-2003, 01:56 AM

I have a feeling he will stop selling them by tommorow

hydrogen18 · 08-08-2003, 01:41 PM

why....

G33k · 08-08-2003, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
False advertizing. He is linking from information that was not paid for by him and is not about his product and using it to promote his product. Simple case of false advertizing and mis information to blindly lead customers into buying a product they think is something different. His little design sentance is irrelevant being it isn't even close to a real White Water. Which adds to the false advertizing. You don't see AMD using specs from Intel in an attempt to make people think they are buying an Intel when they really get an AMD. it is against the law and it can be inforced if you have the money.

All I can do is post a blurb on my site and speak my peace on these forums though. If I was rich I would assist in a law suite!

Seems to me, that advertising is not false, just misleading.. still a pretty sh**ty way to do business though!

jaydee · 08-08-2003, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by G33k
Seems to me, that advertising is not false, just misleading.. still a pretty sh**ty way to do business though!

Useing someone elses information is false advertizing. I don't see how this is not false advertizing. The links from overclockers is apart of his advertizing and has nothing to do with his block and are used to promote his block. Which to me equels false advertizing.

Would it be false advertizing if Ford used Chevy's specs to sell their rigs and not the real specs of the Ford being sold?

Now if he used HIS OWN testing to use in comparison with the White Waters then he is set. That's just peachy and thats what Ford and Chevy do. But you do not use someone elses specs on your own product.

nikhsub1 · 08-08-2003, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
Now if he used HIS OWN testing to use in comparison with the White Waters then he is set. That's just peachy and thats what Ford and Chevy do. But you do not use someone elses specs on your own product.

Exactly what the WHOLE gripe is about. To the peeps who's response is of the tone, "so what, he copied it, it is not against the law". I think we all agree on that, however, that is NOT the issue. The one and ONLY issue is this putz linking to TWO articles on the ORIGINAL White Water. This would infer, especially to n00bs, that it is the same block.

jaydee · 08-08-2003, 04:03 PM

Let's break down what is being said:

Quote:

Condition: Brand New

This is currently the best water block design for any water cooling setup

This for AMD Motherboards (with 4 holes). This is made with pure copper with Polycarbonate (lexan) top. It comes with 3/8 barbs fittings and can be easily outfitted with 1/2 barbs (email me).

http://www.overclockers.com/articles692/

http://www.overclockers.com/articles373/

The red is spacifically talking about the design of the block he is selling not the White Water design. First of all it is nothing like the White Water which he is trying to make people belive. This is questionably misleading maybe, but false advertizing by using data from the white water for his own specs to attempt to back that statement up. Second, this design IS NOT THE BEST FOR ANY WATER COOLING SETUP!!!! The red statment is completely FALSE! Even if he was selling the real White Water is would be FALSE!

The Cascade is better in most situations! You cannot only take information off of a small portion of blocks being sold (i.e.: the data from BillA) and use it as a universal beat everything in existance when you trying to sell something. Also the White Water design is not better at water cooling a pelt than other designs/ making his statment even more false!

His statment is false so that is false advertizing. And it is intentional if he has been watching the forums at all over the last 3+ months as the Cascade has been spammed around every main forum on the net and has been proven to be BETTER!

He is just trying to make a quick buck off ignorance. He is nothing more than an unethical business man.

Also to Hydrogen, Danger Den was working on the Maze 4 long before GTA even made a post about his block! it has been proven here already.

mastermind2004 · 08-08-2003, 04:15 PM

And technically, even though the design was made in the public domain he still owns an implied copyright on it. The work is still his property, and therefore ripping it is illegal even though it is not an actual registered copyright.

08-06-2003, 07:25 PM	#1
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	Knock off LRWW, I think @ ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=42001 Look pretty close, but I believe I count one extra fin.

08-07-2003, 03:43 AM	#3
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	another one.. This one looks even better. I didn't thing NeoMoses would have done this.. Thing is, the lwrr is definitely easier to copy than some of the others. __________________ -winewood-

08-07-2003, 06:27 AM	#4
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	now that is ripping the designs master off, for some cheap dow... Shame on them. I hope the Gen.pub is educated enough not to support such thievory, but to rather get it from where the Master thereof will at least see something for it.. __________________ There is no Spoon.... Last edited by #Rotor; 08-07-2003 at 04:40 PM.

08-07-2003, 11:58 AM	#6
nikhsub1 c00ling p00n Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: L.A. Posts: 758	I replied to the same subject over HERE and it pisses me off too. The block isnt even close to a WW, where it the o-ring? And those horrible screws. I could care less if the guy sells a million of them, the thing that chaffs my arse is the linking to the BillA review of the WW inferring that it's performance is similar. I have emailed a complaint to ebay and to the owner of the auction. __________________ :-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-: E6700 @ 3.65Ghz / P5W DH Deluxe / 2GB 667 TeamGroup / 1900XTX PC Power & Cooling Turbo 510 Deluxe Mountain Mods U2-UFO Cube Storm G5 --> MP-01 --> PA 120.3 --> 2x DDC Ultras in Series --> Custom Clear Res "Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity." 1,223,460+ Ghz Folding@Home aNonForums :-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:

08-07-2003, 04:56 PM	#8
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	I call for a front page mention of this, In an effort to educate people towards these kind of abominations lurking out there.... I am going to link it on my site, I think it would be appropriate for all that has the ability and some cyberspace real-estate, to do so too....if they want..... __________________ There is no Spoon....

08-06-2003, 07:29 PM	#2
hydrogen18 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 248	The one from from D-Tek looks a little diff, as in the bolts holding it together are different.

08-07-2003, 10:34 AM	#5
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	What pisses me off more than anything is this asshole linked to the White Water results at overclockers and is trying ot make people think it is an original White Water. It has sever design flaws in it compared to the White Water. The channels are to thin, the fins are to wide, the barbs are to small, and there is no impingment! All he did was mill a groove in the middle of the channels. As for the Nemisis, it is a better design but still short of the White Water and the prick that made is a joke to boot. We been over it with him before. These little chicken shits are in it for the money and unable to be remotely original. They are trying to use the White Water publicity to fool idiots that do not know any better into buying their lesser designs of it. Then again that pretty much sums up Corporate America.

08-07-2003, 12:21 PM	#7
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	as did I

08-07-2003, 05:57 PM	#12
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	30 hits, is 30 potential customers of those pricks, that just got shown the light... I'm not linking to Ebay..... I'm linking into this thread.... some won't get the gist if you link to ebay.... this thread will at least explain to them what it's all about.... __________________ There is no Spoon....

08-07-2003, 11:28 PM	#14
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	Now don't go flaming me all at once... technically, the white water was constructed and out in the public domain. I don't support somone ripping off anything, however in a court of law I don't see how they could do jack squat to stop them from making clones. If danger den started cranking these out... could anyone stop them? I don't understand how they could. If a court room couldn't stop this guy from making and selling these, why would ebay give a care what so ever to this guy making a near ww clone? As to statements of perfomance, ebay is not going to understand, much less be able to draw conclusions that this as false advertising. You guys are appalled at the gaul of NeoMoses and that other guy, however realistically stop and ask youself what you really expect ebay to do about it? I don't like the link to bills page unless there was a clear disclaimer that it is only for informational purposes on similar design techniques. However he didn't say that. Is this an expressly forbidden rule in ebay? __________________ -winewood- Last edited by winewood; 08-07-2003 at 11:36 PM.

08-07-2003, 11:54 PM	#15
Zhentar Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 225	I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that if cathar is licensing the LRWW to D-Tek, someone somewhere owns a patent or copyright on the design. And implying that a considerably different (and by all indications, better) product is in fact the one your selling can't be legal, copyrighted or not.

08-08-2003, 12:16 AM	#17
hydrogen18 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 248	umm, IMHO, DD does steal ideas(bash me if you want, but ure like defending satan to me, so ill just ignore you). A quick look here shows what I mean, and shows waterblock design theft isnt isolated to the WW... http://forums.digital-explosion.co.u...opic.php?t=607 http://forums.digital-explosion.co.u...opic.php?t=569 http://forums.digital-explosion.co.u...opic.php?t=525

08-08-2003, 01:08 AM	#18
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	well... I'd never defend Satan.. LOL I had no idea that they did that kind of stuff. First time I even saw the accusation. HOWEVER, I have noticed that this is not stopping many if any from buying the maze4. When it gets down to it, people are going to buy what they want wherever or however it was designed. (look at the RIAA and pirated cd's.. 1/3 are illegally made) I don't think a waterblock is patentable. The idea is already mainstream and other than a strict design patent.. (2 years to get one formalized) all they have to do is change it slightly and bingo! This all is a big shame, however honestly.. the guy just has to change a wording or two and he is back in business. I remember a post from Liquid Rulez where he posted his waterblock with cad pics. He said he didn't want anyone stealing his ideas and he would be pizzed if somone did. I suggested he should just delete the post if he didn't want ppl copying him. The next business the posts were deleted. Correct me if im wrong, but that lrww is not copyrighted or patented. Dtek just is throwing Cathar the proverbial "bone" because they understood that it makes good business to do so. This was Cathar supports them and is a statesman in dealing with questions on his design. If they didn't "license" it from him, they could still be whipping those blocks out. Am I misinformed in my understandings? __________________ -winewood-

08-08-2003, 01:56 AM	#19
LiquidRulez Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In Hell Posts: 322	I have a feeling he will stop selling them by tommorow __________________ GOt H20 ?

08-08-2003, 01:41 PM	#20
hydrogen18 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 248	why....

08-08-2003, 04:15 PM	#25
mastermind2004 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: MIT Posts: 78	And technically, even though the design was made in the public domain he still owns an implied copyright on it. The work is still his property, and therefore ripping it is illegal even though it is not an actual registered copyright. Last edited by mastermind2004; 08-11-2003 at 01:02 PM.

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