My cyclone block design--critique needed

Blayde · 04-15-2003, 10:57 PM

hey, i was just throwing around iidea last night and came up with this: the water flowing the opposite ways is supposed to create mucho turbulence and stuff like that (like a whirlpool or cyclone)

EDIT: im not actually gonna try to build this as the pins would be too hard
EDIT2: the inlets/outlests are .25 inches that theoretically will be fed by .5in line
EDIT3: the channels that lead to the pins are .125in

Blayde · 04-15-2003, 10:58 PM

top

Gurke · 04-15-2003, 11:21 PM

i doubt that the water is gonna go where you want it... i would put the inlet in the middle and at the end of the four channels 4 outlets. or you make it one channel and then 2 outlets. that's then pretty much a ww, only with fins.
greetz, gurke

edit: yeah, my first post

Spamz0r · 04-16-2003, 07:09 AM

well why not have a wall in the center, so that as the water temp changes after moving through the pins it is evened out on the other side.... but meh

Balinju · 04-16-2003, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spamz0r
well why not have a wall in the center, so that as the water temp changes after moving through the pins it is evened out on the other side.... but meh

like you said your leaving out his idea of having water flowing the opposite way to get a great turbulance

funktional · 04-16-2003, 09:20 AM

I think this is a good idea, but you need a strong pump to get high turbulance. If the water which is coming out of the two inlet channels meets in the middle and causes high turbulance there it doesn't matter through which channel its going out of the block.
But I think that a center inlet with two outlets will still be better.

LiquidRulez · 04-16-2003, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by funktional
I think this is a good idea, but you need a strong pump to get high turbulance. If the water which is coming out of the two inlet channels meets in the middle and causes high turbulance there it doesn't matter through which channel its going out of the block.
But I think that a center inlet with two outlets will still be better.

I agree.
I also agree that the water wont travel in the direction you want it to(left to right....right to left)....its hard to say though.
It'd be a good experiment to try out

bigben2k · 04-16-2003, 10:43 AM

I disagree.

I think that the original idea of the counterflow is valid, but the area where the flows meet should be pretty small, and I'm referring to a ~5mm slit in the center wall.

The pump is definitely going to be critical, along with the flow velocity within the block. The channel size should be minimized for the CPU die area (in width), then minimized for what the pump can handle (in height).

The only issue I see is that the pins might not allow enough heat to travel from the baseplate, which is going to remain the hottest part, and none of the flow configurations (nor the whole design, as a matter of fact) mentionned here addresses that. This should be compensated by either a lot of small pins, or fins.

N8 · 04-16-2003, 10:45 AM

Perhaps if there were a semi-solid wall in the center (a wall with a couple openings, with the openings cut at angles), you could get the turbulence you want, and still direct flow.

LiquidRulez · 04-16-2003, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
I disagree.

I think that the original idea of the counterflow is valid, but the area where the flows meet should be pretty small, and I'm referring to a ~5mm slit in the center wall.

The pump is definitely going to be critical, along with the flow velocity within the block. The channel size should be minimized for the CPU die area (in width), then minimized for what the pump can handle (in height).

The only issue I see is that the pins might not allow enough heat to travel from the baseplate, which is going to remain the hottest part, and none of the flow configurations (nor the whole design, as a matter of fact) mentionned here addresses that. This should be compensated by either a lot of small pins, or fins.

Lets number the top view pics like so.

Im going to have to make a mock up, and see for myself BEN

I thought of that as soon as I seen the design, but that would negate the effect he's looking for by having flow travel in opposite directions at the same time, and essentially just be a maze design in effect.

But then again, I could be wrong..................
We shall see......

jaydee · 04-16-2003, 02:37 PM

Why not just have a center inlet and have the same if not better turbulance as there will be a downward force added aswell. :shrug:

logosmani · 04-16-2003, 03:22 PM

maybe a daft idea, but maybe have the inlet channels feed thru little jets?, insert a little wall of copper with 1mm holes or something, or drill it if your insanely skilled with a drill.

bigben2k · 04-16-2003, 03:44 PM

Ok since we're all throwing out ideas here...

How about a multi-channel crossflow?

logosmani · 04-16-2003, 04:00 PM

just knocked this up so u can more clearly see my thinking, 4 inlets, 1 outlet .. jets on each channel 'firing' down towards the base

Blayde · 04-16-2003, 04:35 PM

hmm i kinda like logos idea... wonder what effect that would have...
I know making a center jet would be easier and stuff but im trying to look at other designs besides the center jet impingment

Gulp35 · 04-16-2003, 06:29 PM

Hello From west Cobb!!

I like the idea of the slits in the middle (maybe even use short channels) and have inlet at 3 and 4 and outlets at 1 and 2 (in liquidrulez drawing.

jaydee · 04-16-2003, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blayde
hey, i was just throwing around iidea last night and came up with this: the water flowing the opposite ways is supposed to create mucho turbulence and stuff like that (like a whirlpool or cyclone)

EDIT: im not actually gonna try to build this as the pins would be too hard
EDIT2: the inlets/outlests are .25 inches that theoretically will be fed by .5in line
EDIT3: the channels that lead to the pins are .125in

Anyone catch that? 1/8" for the channels?

:shrug:

Rastlin · 04-16-2003, 07:14 PM

Thats a Lot like my Xstorm block, infact it's almost exactly like my Xstorm block, someone may be making a working prototype of my Xstorm block in the near future, So hopefully I will know how it works sometime soon.

LiquidRulez · 04-16-2003, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
Anyone catch that? 1/8" for the channels? :shrug:

Damn......I missed that
Seems that youre the only one that caught that Jaydee.

bigben2k · 04-16-2003, 09:04 PM

I certainly wasn't paying attention to it: those measurements are usually far from being set in stone, as the presentation usually starts with a concept.

I did point out that the channel width should be set according to the CPU core, and that the channel height should be set according to the pump height.

I don't know how I could explain that any simpler.

Balinju · 04-17-2003, 04:55 AM

just an idea, if you don't like it, then scrap it

instead of making the block in an x shape, why don't try to make it just straight, having an input on each side and the water meats in the middle and exits from the middle.

Got that??

04-16-2003, 10:43 AM	#8
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I disagree. I think that the original idea of the counterflow is valid, but the area where the flows meet should be pretty small, and I'm referring to a ~5mm slit in the center wall. The pump is definitely going to be critical, along with the flow velocity within the block. The channel size should be minimized for the CPU die area (in width), then minimized for what the pump can handle (in height). The only issue I see is that the pins might not allow enough heat to travel from the baseplate, which is going to remain the hottest part, and none of the flow configurations (nor the whole design, as a matter of fact) mentionned here addresses that. This should be compensated by either a lot of small pins, or fins. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

04-16-2003, 03:44 PM	#13
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Ok since we're all throwing out ideas here... How about a multi-channel crossflow? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

04-16-2003, 04:35 PM	#15
Blayde Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Atl GA Posts: 7	hmm i kinda like logos idea... wonder what effect that would have... I know making a center jet would be easier and stuff but im trying to look at other designs besides the center jet impingment __________________ thailand = cool

04-16-2003, 06:29 PM	#16
Gulp35 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 135	Hello From west Cobb!! I like the idea of the slits in the middle (maybe even use short channels) and have inlet at 3 and 4 and outlets at 1 and 2 (in liquidrulez drawing. __________________ Epox 8RDA+ v1.1----------Tyan K8SDPro 1700+ JUIHB 0310XPMW (12.5x200Mhz@1.792v)--------2xOpteron246 (2Ghz 1MB L2) 2x256MB Kingston PC3000 (BH5?) 2-2-2-8 2.7v---2x512MB Corsair Reg.&ECC PC3200 ATi Radeon 9800Pro (stock, too hot)-----ATI RageXL WD800JB+WD2500JB-------WD1600JD Sony DVD/CDRW-------NEC 3520A Black Forton350W--------Antec TruePower2.0 550W EPS12v

04-16-2003, 09:04 PM	#20
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I certainly wasn't paying attention to it: those measurements are usually far from being set in stone, as the presentation usually starts with a concept. I did point out that the channel width should be set according to the CPU core, and that the channel height should be set according to the pump height. I don't know how I could explain that any simpler. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

04-15-2003, 11:21 PM	#3
Gurke Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 8	i doubt that the water is gonna go where you want it... i would put the inlet in the middle and at the end of the four channels 4 outlets. or you make it one channel and then 2 outlets. that's then pretty much a ww, only with fins. greetz, gurke edit: yeah, my first post

04-16-2003, 09:20 AM	#6
funktional Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 17	I think this is a good idea, but you need a strong pump to get high turbulance. If the water which is coming out of the two inlet channels meets in the middle and causes high turbulance there it doesn't matter through which channel its going out of the block. But I think that a center inlet with two outlets will still be better.

04-16-2003, 10:45 AM	#9
N8 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pullman, WA Posts: 91	Perhaps if there were a semi-solid wall in the center (a wall with a couple openings, with the openings cut at angles), you could get the turbulence you want, and still direct flow.

04-16-2003, 02:37 PM	#11
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Why not just have a center inlet and have the same if not better turbulance as there will be a downward force added aswell. :shrug:

04-16-2003, 03:22 PM	#12
logosmani Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 47	maybe a daft idea, but maybe have the inlet channels feed thru little jets?, insert a little wall of copper with 1mm holes or something, or drill it if your insanely skilled with a drill.

04-16-2003, 07:14 PM	#18
Rastlin Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 22	Thats a Lot like my Xstorm block, infact it's almost exactly like my Xstorm block, someone may be making a working prototype of my Xstorm block in the near future, So hopefully I will know how it works sometime soon.

04-17-2003, 04:55 AM	#21
Balinju Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 495	just an idea, if you don't like it, then scrap it instead of making the block in an x shape, why don't try to make it just straight, having an input on each side and the water meats in the middle and exits from the middle. Got that?? __________________ So the bullet proof vest aint a $hit when d laser is pointed to your head Kid

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