Prometeia in US

[*mat-ster*]

Hi ALL - I know U guys will be interested in this kit.......http://www.chip-con.com/tech-info.asp

Latest News from Chip-con

"2002-08-27 We have now added our US/Canadian resellers to our Reseller List. These resellers are now ready to take Pre-orders for the Prometeia. We plan to have Prometeia units located in the US late September/early October."

Before you might ask - no I ain't anything to do with chip-con or the resellers! Just thinking of gettin one and thought where would be the best place to ask all the Q's :shrug: HERE

Seriously what do you think - I know most peeps posting "like to do it the hard way - DIY" but what do you think of the set up, can you forsee any problems with the design, the seal string and capsule are an innovative approach, etc. etc.

Just seen on a US resellers site that the Prometeia has "UL Approved" status now

Here is a good review http://www.thenakedreview.com/index....warticle&id=81

Thnx in advance for your advice Mat

[Heavy_Equipment]

As far as straight phase changing goes, I'd recommend buying a kit over trying to fab something like this.

This looks ok to me, but maybe look up JCViggen (Vapochill owner...he could critique this thing against his first hand experience with the Vapo) He's around on most of the major OCing forums.

I'd look for reviews first, (wait for reviews?...never heard of it b4) and then judge the reviews against the price.

[dream caster]

look here for a review (i have not read it yet)

[Heavy_Equipment]

An evaporator unit that mounts on the zif socket!!!

No Thanks!!!

[bigben2k]

That used to be the ultimate cooling, but the word is spreading around that direct phase-change cooling (a-la-vapochill) is just not up to today's CPUs. Vapochill has yet to come out with a product for the new Athlons, and I think that says it all.

The problem is that it's too small an area for phase change to be effective. As #rotor would tell you, the dehumidifier concept is far more efficient.

[morphling1]

When I get my cnc going I'll try and challenge that, I think the main problem is in evaporator, and I got some great idea for huge surface block which is needed for this kind of cooling, but like I said cnc is needed and I can only say 2mm milling bit action
And we got Danfoss company here in Slovenia and I know a lot of people who is in this bussines so I think I can made unit that will be hopefuly even better then Prometeia

[bigben2k]

I suspect that by running a very long spiral in a block design, that would probably solve the problem. Who cares about flow restriction, right?

[morphling1]

Yes exactly, no major restriction with gas, it's actualy recommended that the volume (lenght) be big enough so that all the compressed liquid evaporate completly in the evaporator, and block should have thick enough base so that the whole surface area do the job of cooling.

[bigben2k]

You could try milling something to make 2 layers of pathway, and stack them in a block. Connect the two layers with a hole in between.

[morphling1]

Yeah maybe something like that, so inlet would be on the block touching the cpu and outlet on upper block, this way surface area would be realy huge, but then the block should be welded together for best contact and 100% seal, this kind of block could realy hold temp of cpu very, very low, once all the mass get cold

[*mat-ster*]

Cheers for that link dream caster not read that one........
I liked the "two layers of the licorice stuff to the bottom of this bracket " that made me laugh

The MoBo used in the Overclock (Shuttle AK31) was not rec'd by Chip-con......looking forward to the results.

An evaporator unit that mounts on the zif socket!!!

Heavy I'mmm sure it does'nt weigh that much, besides the holes are being phased out (pun intend3d) heheheh
The weight is supported by the arm anyways.

Can some one check out the finer details of the compressor used etc it's either one from these http://www.elcold.dk/ or http://www.danfoss.com/Compressors/p...1_Cd13o122.pdf

and the other bits pleze and thnx, Sorry Morph and BBen dunno what ya on about
Mat

[Heavy_Equipment]

It's not so much the weight of the evap. that has me concerned, as the weight plus the leverage that will be applied by the tubing. Looking at the size of the clip, in relation to the "vaporizor", it is obviously intended to just use the single, centre lug.

I had a lug break off a couple years ago, with my first waterblock hold down, which used one lug, instead of the 3, which I would recommend at the very least.

As far as the MB holes being phased out...that's old news, as AMD dropped it from the spec around this time last year if memory serves me correct, or the new year at least.

Every enthusiast board I have seen since, has kept the mounting holes. You'll have a harder time finding a board that does not have the holes, even though they are not required.

A board that doesn't have the holes, likely doesn't have much for OC'ing options either, (aimed at the oem) so it isn't even an issue, as you wouldn't need a heavy heatsink/wb/etc. on a default running system.

[*mat-ster*]

I take your point - I agree with you on both points, did'nt see that it's only holdin on the one clip.

[Its-Freezing]

Originally posted by Heavy_Equipment
An evaporator unit that mounts on the zif socket!!!

No Thanks!!!

Please allow me to rectify a misunderstanding here.

I am Steen Hansen from www.Chip-con.com and would agree with the above statement, however I don't seem to recall that there are any lugs (or taps) on the P4 ZIF socket to hook up anything, therefore the Clip holding the Coolinghead in place, is actually hooked up to the mounting bracket (thus the name) that surrounds the CPU and which is held in place by 4 screws comming through the Rear Cover and MB into the bracket.

Furthermore the picture is a bit inaccurate as there are actually 3 lugs on each side of the Clip, on which it holds on to the mounting bracket on 3 taps at each side, so it is pretty solid realy.

On the issue of the efficiency of the Coolinghead alias Microfreezer of the Prometeia, you are very welcome to try to make a more efficient coolinghead than the one we have developed. We have tried over 50 various design ideas, whereof this one by far outperforms anything else we have been able to come up with and any of the competition.

In fact we have challenged all homemade Phase change Cooling systems, to present a more efficient unit than the Prometeia, but so far no one has taken us up on the challence

Have a nice day.
Steen Hansen

[morphling1]

In fact we have challenged all homemade Phase change Cooling systems, to present a more efficient unit than the Prometeia, but so far no one has taken us up on the challence

Oops I missed that, I guess I have to go to work then .... just kidding
But I will defintely try and match (maybe even better) your solution, if not for making a better solution, then for having all the fun making something like that from scratch, but I know that will be very tough, I being alone, and you with r&d team and production capabilities. I

[DarkEdge]

I don't know alot about the whole phase change thing. I would assume though just to out perform the prometeia you would just need a higher out put compressor, or a better refridgerant.

[Heavy_Equipment]

Considering that the facts have been cleared up regarding the attachment, I would have to say I feel safe in withdrawing my earlier reprehensions, and standing behind my first response:

As far as straight phase changing goes, I'd recommend buying a kit over trying to fab something like this.

As far as:

but maybe look up JCViggen

I just noticed your review link, and realized the review is by JCViggen...perfect.
He took a 1.6a to a stable 3 GHz, and a 2.4 to 3.3 GHz.

From the many conversations I've had with JC in the forums over past year or two, I'd have to say you can take his word as fact, he's a great guy, and he wouldn't endorse this if it wasn't any good.

Here is a quote from a different review, done by Technoyard.com ...never heard of these guys, but I wanted to see some AMD numbers.

We overclocked the Duron 1Ghz to 1.6GHz without any problems at all. Limitations of the overclockability of the SOYO Dragon Ultra board didn't allow us to proceed any further without having stability issues. Nevertheless 1.6GHz for a 1GHz Duron is quite impressive. At idle the temperature was reading around -30C while at full operating level it went down to around -25C. We're still dealing with minus temperatures as opposed to the high temperatures we would see in a vapochil system. After looking at some performance comparisons the Vapochill system is no where close to the cooling performance given by Prometeia.

...and with the size of the evaporator, it doesn't look like the Prometeia is the AMD killer the Vapochill is either.

From this vantage point, it looks to be Win-Win-Win when you compare price(MSRP $640 USD), performance, and the fact that it is "AMD friendly".

[Heavy_Equipment]

I don't seem to recall that there are any lugs (or taps) on the P4 ZIF socket to hook up anything

I guess you can tell where my loyalties are.
I've never used a P4.

I've spent some time today, reading up on the Prometeia, any reviews etc. that I could find, and I have to say it looks impressive.

Sorry for the uneducated response earlier.

[*mat-ster*]

Thnx for clarifying that Steen

I hope "Its-Freezing" keeps in touch via this forum, I'mm very impressed with this company and the feedback I'vve had from "Prometia Customers" in the UK.

One thing I would like to see would be a more comprehensive list of Motherboards that are compatible (the majority) with the "Easymod" system. At the Mo only 12 are listed for Intel 478 and 11 for AMD.

There are plenty of reviews listed here http://www.chip-con.com/reviews.asp

[bigben2k]

Maybe someone here can clarify the block design here: It looks like an open design, with a sponge in it. Can't really tell from the pic.

Is there a reward for meeting the challenge?

[bowman1964]

effecientcy of a evaperator on the cpu die. will i solved that problem.2 months ago i finished my evaparator and it keeps my xp2100@2150 at -40.now the on die shows -20.i designed a block with 8 hours on cnc machining.here is a pic of the block but also the links to the pages i shared all this info on.this block even after i shut the compressor down will keep the processor below 0 for almost 5 minutes.in the oc fourms i get into detail on the block itself.
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...5&pagenumber=3

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showth...&pagenumber=40

[morphling1]

Wow, bowman, great job with your phase change unit. For evaporator I have a little different design in mind, with even larger surface area, but the thing I need to know did you use thermostatic expansion valve instead of capillary tube, how powerfull is that compressor (in W), and what tipe of flexible tubing did you for connecting your evaporator (if I saw that correctly) thanks.

[bowman1964]

ok well i used a calpillary tube and i will tell you why.ok i know alot of people on here run freon but i have been fooling with and selling ac supplies for somewere close to 20 years.im not over the hill but i do know a little bitt.now if anyone doesnt know i will tell you freon works by the sudden drop in pressure of a liquid under pressure to a gas as soon as it is released to a low pressure area.this causes exspansion and boiling resulting in cooling by the sudden removeal of heat.now this cooling starts at the very first point of a pressure drop.if you use a expansion valve the cooling will start at the low side of the vavle and continue to the evaperator untill the freon is boiled off and returns to the compressor.this isnt a efficent use of the freon since you are cooling everything before the evaperator.now i designed mine with alot of ac use in mind.i have a calpillary tube with a nozzel directly over the cpu die spraying pure liquid onto the cold plate inside of the block.the nozzel is only 10 mm high from the cpu die itself.then it starts a return run of over 6 ft of maze .the channel itself is .200 x .300 deep and runs 6 ft though 4 mazes in the one evaperator.so i have bulit this block with more sufface area than anyone realizes.but i didnt stop there .i have seen every trick in the book to get more out of ac. the calpillary tube is inside the return line all the way to the compressor helping to super cool the liquid freon which helps to lower my temps some more.the return line is a custom made flexable rubber crimped hose made by yours truley me.helps when i have made ac hoses for a living.this also makes mounting this evap block so much easer.here is a pic of my proto block to show you what it looked like in the first part of testing

[morphling1]

Thanks for all that great info, bowman

[cmfic]

Originally posted by bowman1964
effecientcy of a evaperator on the cpu die. will i solved that problem.2 months ago i finished my evaparator and it keeps my xp2100@2150 at -40.now the on die shows -20.i designed a block with 8 hours on cnc machining.here is a pic of the block but also the links to the pages i shared all this info on.this block even after i shut the compressor down will keep the processor below 0 for almost 5 minutes.in the oc fourms i get into detail on the block itself.
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...5&pagenumber=3

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showth...&pagenumber=40

I love it, makes much more sense then any thing else I have seen to this point.
Best regards,
John