Phase Change - Page 5

bowman1964 · 08-21-2002, 05:39 AM

PuNiSh3R that gel you see, is from the oil mixing i am sorry you found that out the hard way.that is very hard to get out of the system.first buy yourself a new drier.second you will need some ac flush designed to clean out the system.you will have to drain the compressor best you can and runn the flush through from condensor to evaperator..with compressed air.then use a oil like ester designed to work in r134 or use minerial oil for r12 or r22.these oil will mix slightly with each other(they are designed to mix slightly for change over)but they wont mix in larger quainities.

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-21-2002, 09:41 AM

eh.. screw that.. heh. I figured it was from a bit of ester mixing with some mineral oil..

I got that glob out that was in my cap tube.. air freely comes out of the cap tube now.. I have no more issues.. heh

SonixOS · 08-21-2002, 09:51 AM

Any of your compressors make a really loud noise? mine does its kind of annoying me. Its constant too. Anyway to get rid of it? My compressor is mounted on rubber pads. Any would there be a problem if I put my evaporator (cap tube) vertically instead of horizontally? I am just thinking of a way to make it smaller. Mine is a water chiller and not direct freon cooling like bowman's.

BTW- Bowman, where do u live in VA?

bowman1964 · 08-21-2002, 11:30 AM

WELL DOES THE COMPRESSOR SOUND LIKE IT HAS A TINY HAMMER INSIDE HITTING THE SIDE.IF SO YOU HAVE TOO MUCH FREON OR MOST LIKELY IT IS YOUR EVAPERATOR IS NOT LARGE ENOUGH TO FINISH BOILING OFF THE FREON.WHICH IS ALOWING LIQUID FREON TO RETURN TO THE COMPRESSOR STILL IN A LIQUID FORM.WHICH IS VERY VERY BAD.YOU CAN CHECK FOR THIS BY CHECKING THE SUCTION LINE AT THE COMPRESSOR AND SEE IF IT IS FROSTING UP OR COLD TO THE TOUCH.IF SO YOU HAVE A FEW OPTIONS.1 IS REMOVE SOME FREON FROM SYSTEM BUT AT A PRICE OF HIGHER TEMPS.2 INCREASE THE SIZE OF THE EVAPERATOR.OR LAST MAKE THE RETURN LINE FROM THE EVAPERATOR A FEW FEET LONGER TO GIVE THAT FREON TIME TO BOIL OFF PROPERLY.GOT TO FIX ,IF THAT IS THE PROBLEM BECAUSE YOUR COMPRESSOR WILL FAIL!!!UNLESS YOU FIX IT.

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-21-2002, 12:34 PM

Yea.. liquid slugging isn't good.. I did that LOT of my 1/20HP compressor.. I had so much slugging that the damn compressor was actually below ambient lol..

Not hard to fix.. don't worry.

I just went through my system.. got some blocks out of it.. using the vacuum pump and my torch to heat the area up with the block.. so whatever was their melted or vaporized and got sucked out.. um.. I put in 134a earlier.. it did nothing.. So I figured I had a block.. the cap tube was fine.. I found the block in the suction line.. Might of been a bit of solder.. or flux..

So I am vac'in the system for like 15-20 minutes now.. then I am going to fill again with 134a and try it..

I got Johnston R-134a.. it is pure R-134a.. so I can put it in my R12 compressor with mineral oil.. I'll let you guys know how things go.. Planning to use mostly propane in the system then.. a tad of 134a to help stuff along.

bigben2k · 08-21-2002, 01:27 PM

Thought ya'll might find this link interesting.

and this one

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-21-2002, 02:11 PM

Well.. Before I go and dump propane into my system.. I decided to test it out with pure 134a.. has no oil in it..

Well.. so far.. not good.. I have no cooling on the evaporator.. the high side pressure is low.. only around 100 to 120PSI.. the low side is in a vacuum.. between 10 and 20".. the compressor makes an odd humming sound too..

I guess it won't do 134a.. I don't know.. either that or most of all the oil came leaking out when I cut the system.. which is a good possibility.. when I cut the lines to get the compressor out a SHITLOAD of oil came out.. and then a ton of it misted out as well.. so really good chance that there isn't much oil in the system.. which would explain the high compressor temps.. I am going to stick in propane then.. see if I actually get cooling or not..

I took care of some blocks and leaks in the system.. everything is good now.. so I know I don't have a cap tube block or something.. just don't know why the 134a won't cool..

SonixOS · 08-21-2002, 02:16 PM

As u can see in the picture, there is water right next to the compressor. Its condensation. Right after the Compressor, the refrigerant evaporates and frost forms all over the tube right after the compressor. There's foam on the rest of the tube till it gets to the evaporator so i dunno if its frosting or not. But i think its pretty cold there too.

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-21-2002, 02:22 PM

I just went back down and turned the sucker on again.. hoping.

HOLY HELL SHE IS COOLING!! WOOOHOOO!!!!!

It still has the 134a in it.. and it's workin! MUWAHAHAHAH!!!

SonixOS · 08-21-2002, 02:33 PM

temps?

SonixOS · 08-21-2002, 02:37 PM

Anyone know if having the evaporator mounted vertically will cause any problems?

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-21-2002, 03:01 PM

22f coldest i've seen so far.. still tweaking.. going out to get more mineral oil

no.. mounting it verticly is no problem.. same with the dryer..

it's best to let gravity do it's work .. so try to have things setup in such a way that gravity helps.. helps to get the oil around.

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-21-2002, 03:49 PM

I just got mineral oil.. got 12oz of it for $4.39 at Eckards..

I came home.. turned the system on.. got 9.9F in no time.. then the compressor started to make this humming sound.. and the temp is rising now.. That is why I think it needs oil..

ssjwizard · 08-21-2002, 04:19 PM

my phsze cooler is almost done ill be posting pics of it later this week as soon as i get some damn shrader valves. glad to see everyones doing well. your stuff is still pretty sweet bowman!

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-21-2002, 05:41 PM

Wiz, get those shraders at a refrigeration shop.. I got a local Syd Harvey store... Any type of industrial heating/cooling shop..

SonixOS · 08-21-2002, 06:13 PM

U guys think my 2500 BTU water chiller can freeze a 226w pelt? Right now condensation is a serious problem for me. If I do direct cooling without a peltier frost forms and nothing drips on my mobo. Except when i turn it off. So if you guys think a 2500 BTU pelt can freeze a 226w pelt i will go and get my chiller checked for pressure and refrigerant volume. Otherwise, i'll sell my pelt and use direct cooling.

What do u guys think?

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-21-2002, 07:01 PM

Direct die phase change.. it will be HELLA lot cheaper in electric then that damn peltier! PELTIERS TO HELL!

Besides.. 2500BTU is enough.. what HP is the compressor? I would charge it with almost all propane and a tiny bit of 134a to add weight to the propane and to take care of the flamable propane.. You'll be set then..

Bowman is the expert resident on DIY direct die.. that is my next plan.. Next summer I'll probably build a direct die unit for the hell of it..

I am going to get my EPA green card probably.. costs 20 bux and u do an online test.. if u pass you get to print out an EPA green card.. that is good until you get the real deal in the mail.. That will let me buy shit like R-12.. R-404B I think.. which can be used in R-12 systems with no problems at all.. don't even need to flush it.. plus R-404B is on par price wise with 134a.. so it's good.. n cheap..

ssjwizard · 08-21-2002, 07:59 PM

pun local hvac places around here only wholsale or deal with licensed tech/orginisations its a B

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-21-2002, 09:06 PM

Wiz.. get your EPA green card then..

My dad used to work for a heating/cooling company so we can go into Syd Harvey store and buy stuff there.. pay in cash.. and use the account of the company he used to work for..

We do have one local shop that will deal to people off the street.. just general stuff though.. not like R-12 .. shit like that.. and they charge out the ass.. surpisingly though.. I got my shrader valves their .. 3 for 3 bux.. Surpising they didn't charge me like.. 191834918 dollars for em..

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-21-2002, 09:07 PM

http://www.refparts.com/Catalog/Majo...oid_valves.asp

There ya go..

Seems that their shraders come with the stems on them.. that sux.. I like my shraders with nothing in them.. I suppose you could take that stem out.. don't know.. maybe it's just soldered in?

That price is on par too.. Now that I think about it.. think I paid 6 bux for 3 shraders.. I forget.. I don't think it was 3 dollars for 3 though.. More like 5 or 6..

Oh n make sure you get the little plastic tool to take the needle valve out..

SonixOS · 08-21-2002, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Besides.. 2500BTU is enough.. what HP is the compressor? I would charge it with almost all propane and a tiny bit of 134a to add weight to the propane and to take care of the flamable propane.. You'll be set then..

here's what i know about the compressor. Its really a dehumidifier stripped to be a water chiller.

Quote:

Model# 05265
Auto Shut-Off: yes--compressor shut down
Collection Pan Size: 21 pints
Depth: 17 1/2 in.
Drain Hose Connection: yes
Height: 20 3/16 in.
Humidistat: humidity control
Number Of Fan Speeds: 2 speeds
Water-Level Control: yes (auto defrost control)
Weight: 45 lbs.
Wheels: yes
Width: 12 9/16 in.

Ok well this is what I found it says on the back of it it's 1.73L/kwh which since it does 65pts/24hrs means that it's a 2527.559 btu unit... that's if you can make that conversion (I think you can but maybe not)
pulls 6.5 amperes on 115 volts in this 750-watt unit

I got that info from 000. He did the research

As for the refrigerant. I personally have never tried such thing. And from what i know. R22 should be quite sufficient. What i know is that its even better than the infamous r-134a. So from what i hear from u is use my maze3-1 as just a regular maze3. Once i'm done making the acrylic case, i'll come back with the results. But what do you think of my compressor. Good find for 140 (includes evap and condensor)?

ssjwizard · 08-21-2002, 10:35 PM

thanks for that link pun thats about the only good thing you've done for me i can remember. anyhoo i think im going to go and work on the mounting inside of my chiller case.

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-21-2002, 10:43 PM

argh.. you are F"d sonix..

First off.. you plan to do direct die.. which means you are going to have to break that system.. which means BYE BYE R-22!

Unless you KNOW someone who can get you GOOD r-22..

134a SUCKS ass.. horrible.. horrible..

That compressor should be good for you.. I would try to find an R-12 compressor though.. just because it will use a lot less electricity.. but that's just my thought..

Unless your Maze3 has a metal top you can't use it.. The extreme cold you will put on it will destroy that lexan.. or atleast the seal.. I highly doubt it will be able to wistand the refrigeration process.. if so.. DAMN! who knows though.. if that block was tested to 1000+ PSI like they say.. then I don't know.. I guess it should work..

But on the other hand it won't work GOOD.. to little channel for the liquid freon to pick up much heat.. You are going to need to have a wrap of evaporator outside of the block then to let the freon properly boil off.. I would suggest wrapping this extra evaporator around part of your condensor.. Like.. some of the tubing that goes from your compressor to the condensor (the high side)... I personally would find a block with a lot more channel though.. something like the maze1.. or maze2 would do better.. with that larger water channel and it's quite long.. Bowman made his own evaporator-"water"block.. which has a ton of channel in it I believe.. ask him for help on that..

I am dealing with my own problems now.. I have this r-12 compressor.. filled with 134a.. things work great.. the temp falls nice and fast.. then it will go up to like 40F.. then fall again.. it's really weird.. I have frost all the way up to my compressor.. The actual condensor is barely warm.. but when I turn the condensor fan off.. the temps rise steadily.. weird..

I think I have a good mix of ester oil and mineral oil in this sytem

lol.. that's not good I know I know.. also the PSI on the low side really fluctuates a lot.. like up down up down.. in between like.. 5+/- PSI.. it will just jump back and forth .. from say.. -5" vacuum to like -10" vacuum.. just keeps jumping bam bam bam..

The system is clear though.. no blocks in the lines... the high side PSI is also low.. like only around 120PSI.. Should be around 150 I believe.. hmm.. I don't know whether to keep adding freon or let some out.. GRR!! I only have about 6oz or so in.. plus my DD supercube condensor has 1/2" tubing in it.. which doesn't help me any.. but I'd think with that large tubing I'd be packing more freon.. I don't know what to do..

bigben2k · 08-21-2002, 10:56 PM

It sounds like you followed my links, Punisher. Either that, or you are really a phase change master, but then you shouldn't be stuck, right?

It sounds like you are ready to add more propane, not sure though. What was the original amount of refrigerant in the system?

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-21-2002, 11:03 PM

hah.. no I read both of those links.. I got a lot of good info from them..

Ben, when this compressor was in it's refrigerator.. It was A LOT of freon.. cuz when I cut the line.. a TON of r-12 came blasting out.. lasted for about 5-8 minutes.. came out of a small opening.. but still.. it really came pouring out..

I put in about.. 1 1/2oz's of mineral oil.. that seems to have taken care of the odd humming sound I was having..

I know I have a small amount of ester in this system.. a tiny bit though.. nothing that will wreck havock.. not with the amount of mineral oil that I have..

I didn't use propane either.. I can't get my damn propane tank off of my grill.. and also.. afraid of with the chemical reaction that might be happening between the bit of ester oil and mineral oil .. afraid that the propane might not be stable with that.. so just using 134a.. I emptied the system.. vac'd it out good.. then I put in about 6oz's of 134a so far.. the low side is really jumpy.. the high side is around 120PSI.. the temps go down to like 18F.. then they go up.. to like.. 38F.. then back down.. it's weird.. I guess I will just keep shoving 134a in.. I mean.. I am using a DD supercube as the condensor.. that has 1/2" tubing in it.. I am going to need a good amount of freon for this system I'd bet.. I am thinking of getting a new dryer though and the right size cap tube for this size compressor.. what do you think?

08-21-2002, 05:39 AM	#101
bowman1964 Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: virginia usa Posts: 126	PuNiSh3R that gel you see, is from the oil mixing i am sorry you found that out the hard way.that is very hard to get out of the system.first buy yourself a new drier.second you will need some ac flush designed to clean out the system.you will have to drain the compressor best you can and runn the flush through from condensor to evaperator..with compressed air.then use a oil like ester designed to work in r134 or use minerial oil for r12 or r22.these oil will mix slightly with each other(they are designed to mix slightly for change over)but they wont mix in larger quainities. __________________ xp2800barton@2712 226x12 dual bank 2x256 twinmos pc3200 8RDA epox full mods.vdd,vdimm,vcore. custom r502 cooled unit.CPU running @-18C GPU -21C Chipset -20c only one like it.in one case. custom r502 cooling unit 3D2001SE 21315 3DMARK03 6659

08-21-2002, 09:51 AM	#103
SonixOS Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 282	Any of your compressors make a really loud noise? mine does its kind of annoying me. Its constant too. Anyway to get rid of it? My compressor is mounted on rubber pads. Any would there be a problem if I put my evaporator (cap tube) vertically instead of horizontally? I am just thinking of a way to make it smaller. Mine is a water chiller and not direct freon cooling like bowman's. BTW- Bowman, where do u live in VA? __________________ -sonix- ======================= Antec SX830 Abit KR7A-133 MSI Geforce3 Ti200 VT128 TV-IN and TV-OUT Sound Blaster Audigy Linksys LNE100 V2.0 Toshiba DVD Drive 40x/16x IBM Deskstar 60GXP 60gig Watercooled http://www.sonixnet.tk =======================

08-21-2002, 11:30 AM	#104
bowman1964 Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: virginia usa Posts: 126	WELL DOES THE COMPRESSOR SOUND LIKE IT HAS A TINY HAMMER INSIDE HITTING THE SIDE.IF SO YOU HAVE TOO MUCH FREON OR MOST LIKELY IT IS YOUR EVAPERATOR IS NOT LARGE ENOUGH TO FINISH BOILING OFF THE FREON.WHICH IS ALOWING LIQUID FREON TO RETURN TO THE COMPRESSOR STILL IN A LIQUID FORM.WHICH IS VERY VERY BAD.YOU CAN CHECK FOR THIS BY CHECKING THE SUCTION LINE AT THE COMPRESSOR AND SEE IF IT IS FROSTING UP OR COLD TO THE TOUCH.IF SO YOU HAVE A FEW OPTIONS.1 IS REMOVE SOME FREON FROM SYSTEM BUT AT A PRICE OF HIGHER TEMPS.2 INCREASE THE SIZE OF THE EVAPERATOR.OR LAST MAKE THE RETURN LINE FROM THE EVAPERATOR A FEW FEET LONGER TO GIVE THAT FREON TIME TO BOIL OFF PROPERLY.GOT TO FIX ,IF THAT IS THE PROBLEM BECAUSE YOUR COMPRESSOR WILL FAIL!!!UNLESS YOU FIX IT. __________________ xp2800barton@2712 226x12 dual bank 2x256 twinmos pc3200 8RDA epox full mods.vdd,vdimm,vcore. custom r502 cooled unit.CPU running @-18C GPU -21C Chipset -20c only one like it.in one case. custom r502 cooling unit 3D2001SE 21315 3DMARK03 6659

08-21-2002, 01:27 PM	#106
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Thought ya'll might find this link interesting. and this one __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

08-21-2002, 02:16 PM	#108
SonixOS Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 282	As u can see in the picture, there is water right next to the compressor. Its condensation. Right after the Compressor, the refrigerant evaporates and frost forms all over the tube right after the compressor. There's foam on the rest of the tube till it gets to the evaporator so i dunno if its frosting or not. But i think its pretty cold there too. __________________ -sonix- ======================= Antec SX830 Abit KR7A-133 MSI Geforce3 Ti200 VT128 TV-IN and TV-OUT Sound Blaster Audigy Linksys LNE100 V2.0 Toshiba DVD Drive 40x/16x IBM Deskstar 60GXP 60gig Watercooled http://www.sonixnet.tk =======================

08-21-2002, 09:41 AM	#102
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	eh.. screw that.. heh. I figured it was from a bit of ester mixing with some mineral oil.. I got that glob out that was in my cap tube.. air freely comes out of the cap tube now.. I have no more issues.. heh

08-21-2002, 12:34 PM	#105
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Yea.. liquid slugging isn't good.. I did that LOT of my 1/20HP compressor.. I had so much slugging that the damn compressor was actually below ambient lol.. Not hard to fix.. don't worry. I just went through my system.. got some blocks out of it.. using the vacuum pump and my torch to heat the area up with the block.. so whatever was their melted or vaporized and got sucked out.. um.. I put in 134a earlier.. it did nothing.. So I figured I had a block.. the cap tube was fine.. I found the block in the suction line.. Might of been a bit of solder.. or flux.. So I am vac'in the system for like 15-20 minutes now.. then I am going to fill again with 134a and try it.. I got Johnston R-134a.. it is pure R-134a.. so I can put it in my R12 compressor with mineral oil.. I'll let you guys know how things go.. Planning to use mostly propane in the system then.. a tad of 134a to help stuff along.

08-21-2002, 02:11 PM	#107
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Well.. Before I go and dump propane into my system.. I decided to test it out with pure 134a.. has no oil in it.. Well.. so far.. not good.. I have no cooling on the evaporator.. the high side pressure is low.. only around 100 to 120PSI.. the low side is in a vacuum.. between 10 and 20".. the compressor makes an odd humming sound too.. I guess it won't do 134a.. I don't know.. either that or most of all the oil came leaking out when I cut the system.. which is a good possibility.. when I cut the lines to get the compressor out a SHITLOAD of oil came out.. and then a ton of it misted out as well.. so really good chance that there isn't much oil in the system.. which would explain the high compressor temps.. I am going to stick in propane then.. see if I actually get cooling or not.. I took care of some blocks and leaks in the system.. everything is good now.. so I know I don't have a cap tube block or something.. just don't know why the 134a won't cool..

08-21-2002, 02:22 PM	#109
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	I just went back down and turned the sucker on again.. hoping. HOLY HELL SHE IS COOLING!! WOOOHOOO!!!!! It still has the 134a in it.. and it's workin! MUWAHAHAHAH!!!

08-21-2002, 02:33 PM	#110
SonixOS Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 282	temps? __________________ -sonix- ======================= Antec SX830 Abit KR7A-133 MSI Geforce3 Ti200 VT128 TV-IN and TV-OUT Sound Blaster Audigy Linksys LNE100 V2.0 Toshiba DVD Drive 40x/16x IBM Deskstar 60GXP 60gig Watercooled http://www.sonixnet.tk =======================

08-21-2002, 02:37 PM	#111
SonixOS Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 282	Anyone know if having the evaporator mounted vertically will cause any problems? __________________ -sonix- ======================= Antec SX830 Abit KR7A-133 MSI Geforce3 Ti200 VT128 TV-IN and TV-OUT Sound Blaster Audigy Linksys LNE100 V2.0 Toshiba DVD Drive 40x/16x IBM Deskstar 60GXP 60gig Watercooled http://www.sonixnet.tk =======================

08-21-2002, 03:01 PM	#112
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	22f coldest i've seen so far.. still tweaking.. going out to get more mineral oil no.. mounting it verticly is no problem.. same with the dryer.. it's best to let gravity do it's work .. so try to have things setup in such a way that gravity helps.. helps to get the oil around.

08-21-2002, 03:49 PM	#113
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	I just got mineral oil.. got 12oz of it for $4.39 at Eckards.. I came home.. turned the system on.. got 9.9F in no time.. then the compressor started to make this humming sound.. and the temp is rising now.. That is why I think it needs oil..

08-21-2002, 04:19 PM	#114
ssjwizard Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: new mexico Posts: 21	my phsze cooler is almost done ill be posting pics of it later this week as soon as i get some damn shrader valves. glad to see everyones doing well. your stuff is still pretty sweet bowman!

08-21-2002, 05:41 PM	#115
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Wiz, get those shraders at a refrigeration shop.. I got a local Syd Harvey store... Any type of industrial heating/cooling shop..

08-21-2002, 06:13 PM	#116
SonixOS Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 282	U guys think my 2500 BTU water chiller can freeze a 226w pelt? Right now condensation is a serious problem for me. If I do direct cooling without a peltier frost forms and nothing drips on my mobo. Except when i turn it off. So if you guys think a 2500 BTU pelt can freeze a 226w pelt i will go and get my chiller checked for pressure and refrigerant volume. Otherwise, i'll sell my pelt and use direct cooling. What do u guys think? __________________ -sonix- ======================= Antec SX830 Abit KR7A-133 MSI Geforce3 Ti200 VT128 TV-IN and TV-OUT Sound Blaster Audigy Linksys LNE100 V2.0 Toshiba DVD Drive 40x/16x IBM Deskstar 60GXP 60gig Watercooled http://www.sonixnet.tk =======================

08-21-2002, 07:01 PM	#117
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Direct die phase change.. it will be HELLA lot cheaper in electric then that damn peltier! PELTIERS TO HELL! Besides.. 2500BTU is enough.. what HP is the compressor? I would charge it with almost all propane and a tiny bit of 134a to add weight to the propane and to take care of the flamable propane.. You'll be set then.. Bowman is the expert resident on DIY direct die.. that is my next plan.. Next summer I'll probably build a direct die unit for the hell of it.. I am going to get my EPA green card probably.. costs 20 bux and u do an online test.. if u pass you get to print out an EPA green card.. that is good until you get the real deal in the mail.. That will let me buy shit like R-12.. R-404B I think.. which can be used in R-12 systems with no problems at all.. don't even need to flush it.. plus R-404B is on par price wise with 134a.. so it's good.. n cheap..

08-21-2002, 07:59 PM	#118
ssjwizard Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: new mexico Posts: 21	pun local hvac places around here only wholsale or deal with licensed tech/orginisations its a B

08-21-2002, 09:06 PM	#119
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Wiz.. get your EPA green card then.. My dad used to work for a heating/cooling company so we can go into Syd Harvey store and buy stuff there.. pay in cash.. and use the account of the company he used to work for.. We do have one local shop that will deal to people off the street.. just general stuff though.. not like R-12 .. shit like that.. and they charge out the ass.. surpisingly though.. I got my shrader valves their .. 3 for 3 bux.. Surpising they didn't charge me like.. 191834918 dollars for em..

08-21-2002, 09:07 PM	#120
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	http://www.refparts.com/Catalog/Majo...oid_valves.asp There ya go.. Seems that their shraders come with the stems on them.. that sux.. I like my shraders with nothing in them.. I suppose you could take that stem out.. don't know.. maybe it's just soldered in? That price is on par too.. Now that I think about it.. think I paid 6 bux for 3 shraders.. I forget.. I don't think it was 3 dollars for 3 though.. More like 5 or 6.. Oh n make sure you get the little plastic tool to take the needle valve out..

08-21-2002, 10:35 PM	#122
ssjwizard Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: new mexico Posts: 21	thanks for that link pun thats about the only good thing you've done for me i can remember. anyhoo i think im going to go and work on the mounting inside of my chiller case.

08-21-2002, 10:43 PM	#123
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	argh.. you are F"d sonix.. First off.. you plan to do direct die.. which means you are going to have to break that system.. which means BYE BYE R-22! Unless you KNOW someone who can get you GOOD r-22.. 134a SUCKS ass.. horrible.. horrible.. That compressor should be good for you.. I would try to find an R-12 compressor though.. just because it will use a lot less electricity.. but that's just my thought.. Unless your Maze3 has a metal top you can't use it.. The extreme cold you will put on it will destroy that lexan.. or atleast the seal.. I highly doubt it will be able to wistand the refrigeration process.. if so.. DAMN! who knows though.. if that block was tested to 1000+ PSI like they say.. then I don't know.. I guess it should work.. But on the other hand it won't work GOOD.. to little channel for the liquid freon to pick up much heat.. You are going to need to have a wrap of evaporator outside of the block then to let the freon properly boil off.. I would suggest wrapping this extra evaporator around part of your condensor.. Like.. some of the tubing that goes from your compressor to the condensor (the high side)... I personally would find a block with a lot more channel though.. something like the maze1.. or maze2 would do better.. with that larger water channel and it's quite long.. Bowman made his own evaporator-"water"block.. which has a ton of channel in it I believe.. ask him for help on that.. I am dealing with my own problems now.. I have this r-12 compressor.. filled with 134a.. things work great.. the temp falls nice and fast.. then it will go up to like 40F.. then fall again.. it's really weird.. I have frost all the way up to my compressor.. The actual condensor is barely warm.. but when I turn the condensor fan off.. the temps rise steadily.. weird.. I think I have a good mix of ester oil and mineral oil in this sytem lol.. that's not good I know I know.. also the PSI on the low side really fluctuates a lot.. like up down up down.. in between like.. 5+/- PSI.. it will just jump back and forth .. from say.. -5" vacuum to like -10" vacuum.. just keeps jumping bam bam bam.. The system is clear though.. no blocks in the lines... the high side PSI is also low.. like only around 120PSI.. Should be around 150 I believe.. hmm.. I don't know whether to keep adding freon or let some out.. GRR!! I only have about 6oz or so in.. plus my DD supercube condensor has 1/2" tubing in it.. which doesn't help me any.. but I'd think with that large tubing I'd be packing more freon.. I don't know what to do..

08-21-2002, 10:56 PM	#124
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	It sounds like you followed my links, Punisher. Either that, or you are really a phase change master, but then you shouldn't be stuck, right? It sounds like you are ready to add more propane, not sure though. What was the original amount of refrigerant in the system? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

08-21-2002, 11:03 PM	#125
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	hah.. no I read both of those links.. I got a lot of good info from them.. Ben, when this compressor was in it's refrigerator.. It was A LOT of freon.. cuz when I cut the line.. a TON of r-12 came blasting out.. lasted for about 5-8 minutes.. came out of a small opening.. but still.. it really came pouring out.. I put in about.. 1 1/2oz's of mineral oil.. that seems to have taken care of the odd humming sound I was having.. I know I have a small amount of ester in this system.. a tiny bit though.. nothing that will wreck havock.. not with the amount of mineral oil that I have.. I didn't use propane either.. I can't get my damn propane tank off of my grill.. and also.. afraid of with the chemical reaction that might be happening between the bit of ester oil and mineral oil .. afraid that the propane might not be stable with that.. so just using 134a.. I emptied the system.. vac'd it out good.. then I put in about 6oz's of 134a so far.. the low side is really jumpy.. the high side is around 120PSI.. the temps go down to like 18F.. then they go up.. to like.. 38F.. then back down.. it's weird.. I guess I will just keep shoving 134a in.. I mean.. I am using a DD supercube as the condensor.. that has 1/2" tubing in it.. I am going to need a good amount of freon for this system I'd bet.. I am thinking of getting a new dryer though and the right size cap tube for this size compressor.. what do you think?

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