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Xtreme Cooling LN2, Dry Ice, Peltiers, etc... All the usual suspects

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Unread 12-23-2002, 12:56 PM   #51
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First off, a heatercore will be better because it will give you more surface area for the coolant to, well, cool! Ask anyone here, a BIX is a poor choice for two pelts.

Now don't get me wrong: it'll still work, but you loose a lot of efficiency by not having a better core.

IF you don't think it's worth it, then by all means, go with the BIX.

Seeing that you appear to be limited to a relatively small opening, I listed the thickest commonly available heatercores available.

2 fans appear to help, in some cases. It depends a lot on what you're trying to get air through: a 2 1/2 inch thick core is probably fairly restrictive, so 2 fans would be most helpful. An oil cooler type rad, with widely spaced fins, probably not.

How helpful? Check out the radiator roundup article to see (link provided on first page of this thread).

Either way, you won't loose by trying the cheapest suggestion first.
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Unread 12-23-2002, 01:05 PM   #52
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Thanks for the input. I'm in Ottawa Ontario, don't suppose you would know of a good place to find a rad?

Is there an easy way to search www.heatercores4u.com ?

Thanks again
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Unread 12-23-2002, 01:22 PM   #53
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Any idea if the DangerDen heatercore is any good?
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Unread 12-23-2002, 01:30 PM   #54
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I used to live in Canada, and I've been to Ottawa a few times.

If you have a Canadian Tire nearby, that'd be the first place I'd check.

I'm looking at those fan specs again:
You have a YS tech, and I suggested a Sunon.

YSTech:
RPM: 2'800
Noise: 45 dB
max CFM: 125
max pressure: 7.6mm (H2O)

Sunon:
RPM: 2400
Noise: 35.5 dB
max CFM: 69
max pressure: 0.17 inches H2O (4.23 mm)

So although it would be quieter, it would probably perform worse.
Sunon spec (Oops, sorry, I don't do other people's homework! )

What temp difference do you see, from running the fan at 7 volts, versus 12v?

I think you should try a bigger/better fan first (maybe you've got something around the house you can try?). Did you get around to putting a shroud around the BIX?

If you could try a REALLY powerfull fan, you'd see for yourself what we mean about the BIX. Alternatively, your YS tech fan can be overvolted to 16 Volts (see specs).


BTW, I have the same case (Chieftec Dragon DA-01). I'll be putting my rad where the PSU goes, so I'll have a 6 by 8 opening, for (possibly) an old 68' vette core. I plan to use a blower as a fan, pulling air from the side, and blowing out the back. Once one starts using auto parts...
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Unread 12-23-2002, 01:30 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by ap0calyps
Any idea if the DangerDen heatercore is any good?
That's fine. You can probably save yourself shipping, and pick it up locally.
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Unread 12-23-2002, 01:45 PM   #56
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I used an old 120mm fan that was roughly 1 1/2 inches thich, cut the fan out, and used it as a shroud! NO difference. My BIX is garbage

I have a 120mm AC fan that is a MONSTER that I will try. How is that Sunon better than my YS Tech??? I run my fan at 12v not 7v.

Going out for a bit, shopping with the girlfriend (might take a week)
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Unread 12-23-2002, 01:51 PM   #57
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Have fun!

The Sunon is WORSE, that was my point. Quieter, but worse.

With a more effective heatercore, you should be able to bring your water temp to a reasonable level, without using loud fans.

Maybe you can answer this when you get back: what's left for ventilation, for the rest of the case?
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Unread 12-23-2002, 02:09 PM   #58
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I have an Antec 1240/Cheiftec Dragon and I fit a daul 120mm core on the top. it cost me 2 CDROM bays, but I still got 4 more, so I don't mind

Anyway I got the core for $29 from Autozone. Not sure if they have them in Canada, but its just a Ford Econoline Heatercore, so it shouldn't be too hard to find.
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Unread 12-23-2002, 02:23 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by redleader
Anyway I got the core for $29 from Autozone... its just a Ford Econoline Heatercore, so it shouldn't be too hard to find.
Which one ?
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Unread 12-23-2002, 08:13 PM   #60
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Well I think I'm going to go with the Danger Den heatercore. It's like less than HALF the price I paid for my friggin BIX. Who would have though :P I'm going to check out some reviews first. Have a few questions though:

Any ideas on mounting a fan on the heatercore, it has no fan mounting holes. Or would I be best to make a shroud?

Do you know of a similar rad that HAS mounting holes? Or a similar heatercore that comes with a shroud?

Last, will this rad with my YS Tech fan cool dual 172W pelts, on an XP2400+ @2.6Ghz 2.2v?

Oh I guess one last thing while I'm at it. I have a Danger Den Maze slot 1 block with coldplate and same mounting system, 80w pelt, to go on my 9700Pro. With my old pump. Think my BIX would cool THAT well enough?
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Unread 12-23-2002, 08:49 PM   #61
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Oh, I have the Antec SX1200. Have 3x 80mm Vantec stealth blowing air in the front, 2x 80mm vantec stealth sucking air out the back. I was thinking, now that I have 120mm blowhole in the to with rad sucking air out, maybe I should reverse my rear fans and PSU fan, to blow more air in, and it should all get sucked up the centre into the rad and out the top. I will try it when I get a good heatercore.

ANd I was thinkign of actually getting TWO dangerden heatercores. Mount them on top of eachotehr, tight to each otehr no fan inbetween, with the water passing through both, and the 120mm fan/shroud sucking air through both. That should REALLY help temps right?
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Unread 12-24-2002, 08:24 AM   #62
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Good morning!

To answer your first question, you'll have to build your own shroud: cardboard, sheet metal, whatever you can or are willing to do. All you have to keep in mind, is keeping the fan 1 inch from the core.

You might look into the BI2, but only if you're willing to fork out $100 (US) for it. It's basically a double BIX.

The fan will work fine, but again, the more air you can get through, the better it will cool. This is where you're really alone, because it's a personal balance between noise and cooling ability. Try to think outside the box: make a custom shroud to hold two fans side by side.

The benefit of the heatercore is this: because of the much larger surface area, you won't need as much air going through it, compared to the BIX, to achieve the same result. That being said, if you keep the same fan solution, your temps will drop. Know what I mean?

The BIX should be able to handle a 9700 GPU very nicely. If you want to cut costs though, you can sell your BIX in the FS/FT forum.

Your proposed airflow path isn't optimal, but should work fine. Ideally, air comes in the front/bottom, and exits the back/top. Many articles detail this. Experimenting is always good though.

Two heatercores may be overkill, but may allow you to drop your coolant temp a couple of degrees extra. This may or may not affect your CPU temp: as a gross estimate, a 3 degree coolant temp drop may result in a 1 degree CPU temp drop, in an efficient system.

Again, if you want to save yourself the shipping charges, you can pick up a heatercore from a local shop. I assume that you're mobile...
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Unread 01-02-2003, 12:07 PM   #63
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Hey,

I ordered the heatercore from Danger Den, along with a reservoir. I'm thiking of this fan for my rad:

http://www.deltaww.com/products/dcfa...B120120762.pdf

Now, I cut a 120mm hole in the top of my tower. In the middle of the top, facing up. A blowhole I guess. I have 3x80mm in the front, 2x80mm in the back, and a 92mm in the back. I think I'm going to cut a 120mm hole in the bottom center of the tower, facing up, sucking air in from below the tower. THis should give me good airflow, correct?

Also, should I suck or blow air through the heatercore?
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Unread 01-02-2003, 12:33 PM   #64
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I think you're all set. You'll probably want a controller for that fan, because at 50+ dB, it's going to be quite loud.
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Unread 02-09-2003, 06:16 AM   #65
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The 172W Peltiers from Tedist has a cooling effekt@ 172W@24.6V, but 288W electricity@24.6V.

Then You easily can calculate the current consumption.
288W/24.6V = 11,71A

@price/performance the 172W peltiers are best @ 18V, because they only consume about 155W and still have 85-90% left of its cooling performance and delta.

(R = U/I)
24.6V/11.71A = 2,1ohm.

(P = U²/R)

18V²/2.1ohm = 155W
155*2 = 310W

310W/18V = 17.2A

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Unread 02-10-2003, 11:39 PM   #66
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I can say without a doubt that the BIX is holding you back.

Yeah, you mighta read on some site, heck even at HWLabs site who make the thing, that it will dissipate 919Wh of heat load.

What they DON'T tell you as what temperature the coolant is at when it's dissipating that heat load.

The answer, in my experience given some extremely powerful fans (no, I mean WAY more powerful than a 108CFM Sunon, or a 104CFM Panaflo H1A), is something in the order of a 50C rise above ambient for the water temps.

ie. At 919Wh heat dissipation, the BIX using fans WAY more powerful than yours, will allow the water to rise to about 75C in a 25C room.

A 172W peltier with a hot CPU under it will roughly be emitting around 300W of heat out the hot side, so expect water temps around 20C or so above room temperature using the fans you're using.

I'm very annoyed at the lack of adequate information supplied by HWLabs. It borders on misleading, and many people think the BIX is the dog's 'nads when it come to radiators, and it isn't. IMO, it's a middling-low performance radiator.

Go to DTek Customs and order yourself a pair of their 6x6x2 heater-cores with shrouds if you can't be bothered finding, buying and making up shrouds for some cores yourself. Two of these babies would come pretty close to what you need to handle the sort of heat load you're talking about.

Okay, so with a BIX your water temps are about 20C, or possibly more, above room temperature. Now the TEC will have a max temperature differential of around 65C. A Maze 2.1 will allow the hot side of the peltier to climb to about 5C above the water temp, so our cold side of the peltier will at best be about 40C below room temperature.

Throw in the cold-plate to cold-side thermal goop layer, and we lose maybe another 5C, so the opposing side of the cold-plate that touches the CPU will at best be about 35C below room temperature.

Now if we throw in the CPU thermal goop layer, and munge a bit for the thermal resistance of the cold-plate itself, and you'll probably find that the CPU can't get much below room temperature under load.

Not good.

....and the culprit here is the BIX.

Edit: Note the above discussion deals with temperatures only, of that I'm aware, and it does not take into account actual wattages and heat transfer, but the point here being to discuss what would be a theoretical minimum temperature that a TEC could take the CPU to if it were of sufficient wattage to dissipate the CPU's heat.

Last edited by Cathar; 02-11-2003 at 01:45 AM.
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Unread 02-12-2003, 12:09 AM   #67
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After reading through the thread, I noticed you said you've got 2 172w TEC's but you've only got 1 powered, is that correct?

Do you have both TEC's installed and setup in the coldplate but are only powering one of them? If thats the case then that would really hinder the performace.
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Unread 04-18-2003, 04:32 AM   #68
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Default 172 watt peltiers

I also use two 172 watt peltiers. Rated for a maximum voltage of 24.6 volts. I bought them from Danger Den in the USA. I run the two 40mm x 40mm size peltiers in parallel on my waterblock and coldplate. Measuring the current they use when wired in parallel indicates around 17.1 amps, although I don't measure the current for more than 10 seconds or my multimeter is likely to be damaged. I would expect your peltiers to draw around 8.5 to 8.6 amps each if running them at the same voltage as me. I run my peltiers at around 19.1 volts DC. I use Meanwell 24 volt DC power supplies which have a small amount of voltage adjustment on them. For more info please see my website at..
http://www.e-magic.co.nz/starlet/

cheers

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Unread 06-29-2003, 05:18 PM   #69
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i think you'll find they'll be 172w @ 24 volts which is 7.1 amps

mine at 22.8 volts draw 8 amps
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