Thermochill PA160 in US - When?

[nikhsub1]

Originally Posted by Cathar

FWIW - am running ~9.5LPM through my Storm/G5 here in regular use with the RD-30.

And I am running ~11LPM through mine with your average $110 pump

[MaxxxRacer]

humph.. well i was going by dereks testing where the max was 1.75 gpm i believe... and that is with the hydrothruster which is equivalent to a MD20 afaik.


nik, what pump is that.. i have my 110 dollar iwaki here but i dont think ur refering to that... and most certianly not ur rd30... or wait.. u are referign to the rd30 as u got it for 100 bucks..

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

humph.. well i was going by dereks testing where the max was 1.75 gpm i believe... and that is with the hydrothruster which is equivalent to a MD20 afaik.


nik, what pump is that.. i have my 110 dollar iwaki here but i dont think ur refering to that... and most certianly not ur rd30... or wait.. u are referign to the rd30 as u got it for 100 bucks..

That is will a lot of extra restrictions though. Flow meter, probes, miles of tube, ect.. The HydroThruster500 has balls, at least mine does. To bad the impeller assembly is crap.

[brucoman]

how about 9.5LPM through 2 G4's with my "average $120" pump?
(thanks again nik for the pm last year!)

or 8.2LPM through a Cascade & over 70' run of tubing/hose/chiller via a undervolted MD-30RZ?

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

humph.. well i was going by dereks testing where the max was 1.75 gpm i believe... and that is with the hydrothruster which is equivalent to a MD20 afaik.

As jaydee116 point out above, Derek's test loop has almost as much restriction as a Storm in there already, even before a water-block is even added to be tested.

If Derek reduced the testbed to just the hydrothruster, radiator and waterblock, his flow rates would be MUCH higher.

[MaxxxRacer]

yah good point. that is why i am designing my testbed to have the LEAST restriction possible so that i can show flowrates that are a bit higer and what are attainable with high performance pumps.

its a shame his system is so restrictive

[Marci]

Sidenote: I've got a few prototype replacement shrouds for PA160 and HE Series finished in Zinc with Clear Passivate, and Zinc with irridescent gold passivate... will post pix when they turn up... they're just to give us an idea of how different finishes will look.

Zinc with Clear will give a Chrome look. Zinc with gold will give a gold look (basically!).

Also working on HE dimensioned fan grills as no-one currently produces one to suit the 120.2 and 120.3 rads... prototype for that should be arriving with the above, powdercoated white (purely cos that's what color was being used for a large batch of car-cores at the time)

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

its a shame his system is so restrictive

Well it more or less has to be. Unless he wants everything to be done manually. He has to measure temps everywhere, be able to control flow-rates, measure the flow rates, control the water temperature exactly, filter the water from crap, and so on.

All these things are necessary if the test bench is to do its job.

[HammerSandwich]

Originally Posted by Cathar

Anyways, with the Tricod at 12.0v the radiator achieved a C/W of ~0.044...

Cathar, do you mind doing an undervolted test for us silent-freak folks? To explain my reference levels, I'm currently using a Yate Loon 12SL at ~5V (should be 600ish RPM, but my mobo won't read it). Also found a significant noise improvement by swapping an 80mm L1A @ 5V into my Seasonic PSU.

[Jabo]

Just my two pence here for rads designs:

1. I noticed that some car rads (the bigger ones) have shaped tanks i.e. they are 3D wedge shaped. I believe that is done to balance the pressure gradients, or rather get rid of it to prevent a situation where different tubes get different flow rates through. That's single pass cross flow rad I am talking here.

2. Performance peaking and then a drop-off is due to breaking the turbulent flow Re number and therefore expotentially(dunno the exact functional relationship as I write this) increasing restrictivness compared to flow rate increase. That's just my theory on that one.

3. I think Cathar or was in Maxxracer hit the nail in the head when wrote about dT in single pass rads.

4. What I personally gathered from various radiator testing results of other people was that with current line of thinking in rads design water side of it is rather insignificant (flow rates have next to none impact on performance as used in PC water cooling) and the air side of the equation is of the utmost importance and that's why P.160s are so good there from noise/performance point of view and commercially of course

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by HammerSandwich

Cathar, do you mind doing an undervolted test for us silent-freak folks? To explain my reference levels, I'm currently using a Yate Loon 12SL at ~5V (should be 600ish RPM, but my mobo won't read it). Also found a significant noise improvement by swapping an 80mm L1A @ 5V into my Seasonic PSU.

The Tricod is just a Yate-Loon rebadge. I'll do a 5v test for you when I next can.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by Jabo

2. Performance peaking and then a drop-off is due to breaking the turbulent flow Re number and therefore expotentially(dunno the exact functional relationship as I write this) increasing restrictivness compared to flow rate increase. That's just my theory on that one.

That was one theory that I had too, but was unable to find anything in theory or practise to back it up. Convection efficiency is always increasing with increased turbulence in tubular scenarios, even when factoring in flow resistance.

[HammerSandwich]

Originally Posted by Cathar

I'll do a 5v test for you when I next can.

Thanks!

(padding to >10)

[Cathar]

Waterflow => ~7lpm

Tricod @ 5.0v => 0.075 c/w
Tricod @ 12.0v => 0.044 c/w
Panaflo L1A @ 12.0v => 0.031 c/w
Panaflo H1A @ 12.0v => 0.022 c/w
Panaflo H1A @ 16.0v => 0.020 c/w

Tricod is a Yate-Loon rebadge
Panaflo H1A @ 16.0v was chosen to approximate a Delta AFB1212VHE fannage level

[Marci]

Can I quote those figures on the PA160 page over at ThermoChill d00d?

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by Marci

Can I quote those figures on the PA160 page over at ThermoChill d00d?

Sure.

'twould be best to accompany them with a link to the original thread over at OCAU of course, just so people can check the source.

[Marci]

See the PA160 page (and scroll down it).... I updated it the other day with links to relevant threads here and at OCAU so that's more or less done already... but yep! no sweat!

EDIT: heh, my impatience *tsk* too late to ctrl-z too!

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by Marci

See the PA160 page (and scroll down it).... I updated it the other day with links to relevant threads here and at OCAU so that's more or less done already... but yep! no sweat!

How would you like the figures phrased??

eg:

With a flowrate of 7lpm, use of the following fans offer the displayed C/W rating
Tricod @ 5.0v => 0.075 c/w
Tricod @ 12.0v => 0.044 c/w
Panaflo L1A @ 12.0v => 0.031 c/w
Panaflo H1A @ 12.0v => 0.022 c/w
Panaflo H1A @ 16.0v => 0.020 c/w

Do you see the need for a disclaimer on the figures? and if so, what...

I think that adding the noise/cfm levels per fan would be useful.

Tricod @ 5.0v => (est.) 10dBA / (est.) 23cfm (I actually think the noise level would be less than that - but I doubt that people would swallow such a figure as it is an estimate)
Tricod @ 12.0v => 22dBA / 45 cfm
Panaflo L1A @ 12.0v => 30dBA / 69 cfm
Panaflo H1A @ 12.0v => 41dBA / 104cfm
Panaflo H1A @ 16.0v => (est.) 48dBA / (est.) 130cfm

Disclaimer huh? Procedure and some statements of the levels of error are given in the origin thread. I would say just give the above figures and point to the thread for more info - and people can read about what was done and make the assessment themselves if they so choose. Heck - that sort of transparency is already infinitely better than what most manufacturers provide. It's not a professionally done test, I openly admit that, just as I do a number of times in the origin thread.

Maybe a disclaimer that says "* - preliminary results - see thread here for further details"

[Marci]

Doneskis...

[HammerSandwich]

Thanks again for the 5V test, Cathar. The low airflow performance is most impressive.

However, your noise estimates look a bit optimistic. YL rates the low-speed D12s at 24 & 28 dBA, depending on bearing. The sleeve bearing is the louder, which seems odd; perhaps they swapped things. In addition, MikeC at SPCR measured the Nexus at 22-23, and that's a 25% slower fan.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by HammerSandwich

However, your noise estimates look a bit optimistic. YL rates the low-speed D12s at 24 & 28 dBA, depending on bearing. The sleeve bearing is the louder, which seems odd; perhaps they swapped things. In addition, MikeC at SPCR measured the Nexus at 22-23, and that's a 25% slower fan.

Yate-Loon site appears to be down, and I never have been able to access it. Don't know why.

Tricod information is non-existent everywhere. Fan noise levels are not standardised anyway.

The Tricod fans that I have here are the sleeve bearing fans. I have 4 of them just sitting here, and 4 things at once is a 6dBA increase over a single thing. Running all 4 at once next to the Panaflo L1A manufacturer-stated 30dBA results in the Panaflo still being clearly louder than the 4xTricods.

I don't know - am more making comparisons relative to the base-line of the L1A at 30dBA, which to me is quieter than any other so-called 30dBA fan I've held.

If the Panaflo L1A is 30dBA, and the sleeve bearing Yate-Loon's are 28dBA (thereby making 2 x 28dBA items = 31dBA), then I'll gladly admit to being deafer than a doorknob if 2 x these Tricods are anything as loud as the Panaflo L1A.

Maybe I should invest in a sound-meter, but then, what would that accomplish without a common frame of reference for everyone else to calibrate to?

[nikhsub1]

Stew you are not deafer than a doorknob, but I am

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Stew you are not deafer than a doorknob, but I am

LOL - wasn't going to say anything but yeah. After you swearing black'n'blue about how quiet "The Beast Mk. II" was, and I walked in and practically had to shout to make myself heard....

[nikhsub1]

Originally Posted by Cathar

LOL - wasn't going to say anything but yeah. After you swearing black'n'blue about how quiet "The Beast Mk. II" was, and I walked in and practically had to shout to make myself heard....

Yeah but even with all fans OFF, it is loud, it's the PSU

[Marci]

Yep... PCP&C = noisy beast - open it up, disconect it's fan from the mainboard and hook it up to a fanbus, or swap it out for a Panaflo 80mm... I had the same issue

Anyways.... Tricod. A part of the CodeGen Group. Found in CodeGen cases (also sometimes named as TriCod cases) and Codegen PSUs. I get the feeling that the TriCod 120mm fans are harvested from Codegen 350w & 400w PSUs - the cheap and nasty ones that in the UK only feature 80mm fans, but elsewhere in the world can be found with 120mm fans; and that are often found fitted in cheaper cases. In many cases for system builds these PSUs are insufficient, whipped out, useful parts stripped, then binned. I suspect your supplier does this regularly.

Anyways, the Tricod homepage is down due to a futzed odbc driver, but delve past index.asp and you can get in and get contact details (altho minimal) and hopefully they can get in touch and provide you with some details... particularly of interest, whether the fans are available individually to retail, or whether they can only be found in their PSUs / Cases.

http://www.codegengroup.com/support.asp - note the second line of the logo...

They're also lsited on CodeGenWorld... http://www.codegenworld.com/04_branch/branch_china.asp

□ Location Address:
No. 868 Yueluo Road
Baoshan District, Shanghai, China
□ Tel: 86-21-56935954
□ Tel: 86-21-56935962
□ Tel: 86-21-56935964
□ Fax: 86-21-56935949
□ Email:sales@tricodsh.com


Unfortunately the e-mail domain doesn't tie to a website. Tricodsh.com won't resolve.

And their German Office in Hamburg: http://www.codegenworld.com/04_branc...ch_germany.asp

□ Location Address:
BEI DER NEUEN MUENZE 20
22145 HAMBURG GERMANY
□ Tel: 49-40-6686-270
□ Fax: 49-40-6686-2727
□ Email:
christian@codegengroup.com
□ Website:
http://www.tricod.de
http://www.codegenworld.de

Tricod.de DOES resolve but again doesn't give any info on the fans as products in their own right, but does show the PSUs that they're harvested from...




Hope that's of use to you d00d!