and another 12V pump for Cathar - Page 3

Blackeagle · 02-05-2004, 08:25 PM

Cathar,

I"m wondering if the RD-30's cost is in the $400 USD range + 80 watts. What about the RD-20 which would be 48 watts, and would most likly cost no more or less thant he X 3 D4 pumps, while also avoiding the risk of the pumps overworking each other. And with the RD-20's 26+ ft. of head if you changed out your rads to dual 2-342, low resistence rads, could this not take you a long way towards your goal?

Just another possible option.

Although the rad change could also be done for any other pump you change to.

Will be interesting to see what you gain in the end Cathar.

wicka · 02-05-2004, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldenton

for anyone who doesn't know, word on OCAU is that Dangerden are going to be distributing the D4....

Whoa, that'd be crazy...especially with the $80 price tag someone else mentioned.

pauldenton · 02-05-2004, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicka

Whoa, that'd be crazy...especially with the $80 price tag someone else mentioned.

that was me as well - see here

February 4th

Danger Den is excited to announce a new 12V pump offering! The DD12V-D4 pump P-Q curve is phenomenal for a 12V DC pump (shown below - D4). In house testing shows it outperforms most AC pumps. Look for this pump to retail for under $80 at Danger Den. This pump does include a 24 month (2 year) warranty. The DD12V-D4 pump will be in stock middle-late February! More details to follow...

wicka · 02-05-2004, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldenton

that was me as well - see here

February 4th

Danger Den is excited to announce a new 12V pump offering! The DD12V-D4 pump P-Q curve is phenomenal for a 12V DC pump (shown below - D4). In house testing shows it outperforms most AC pumps. Look for this pump to retail for under $80 at Danger Den. This pump does include a 24 month (2 year) warranty. The DD12V-D4 pump will be in stock middle-late February! More details to follow...

Uh...oh...*smacks self*

[EDIT] Oh damn, I had to reload the page like 8 times, the new post wasn't showing up...

fhorst · 02-06-2004, 01:14 AM

Hmm That baby looks nice!
I guess I orderd my 2 mcp600 a bit to soon

(but I'm happy with them)
The price seems to be right, so I might be ordering one of these also, just to compair.

The MCP still makes to much noise, but it's only running for 14 hrs now. It is supposed to get silent after 2 or 3 days...

satanicoo · 02-06-2004, 01:43 AM

Am still holding to see what bill has to say...

BillA · 02-06-2004, 09:57 AM

I am not inclined to 'knock' another (vendor's) product just to be panning it
Cathar will doubtless be reporting his experience
and PHaestus might even add the Laing to his pump testing article
(as could I to the Swiftech comparative pump test article)

but why not let DD test it ?
and per their site they say they have already done so
??

dima y · 02-06-2004, 02:43 PM

Laing Thermotech raised the price for the D4 to $106 1-50 units and $96 for 50-250 units (bastards saw the demand)

so i would say at this point hold off till dangerden starts selling them for 80 which is much better deal.

Cathar · 02-06-2004, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unregistered

but why not let DD test it ?
and per their site they say they have already done so
??

Come now. When have DD ever tested anything off their own bat? Rokk1972 found the silver RBX to be 3.5C better than the copper RBX by having his radiators outside of his case, and reporting a 3.5C improvement in the CPU - in-case temperature results - so you just know it's gotta be accurate!

Quote:

I am not inclined to 'knock' another (vendor's) product just to be panning it

You're scaring me now Bill.

BillA · 02-06-2004, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathar

Come now. When have DD ever tested anything off their own bat? Rokk1972 found the silver RBX to be 3.5C better than the copper RBX by having his radiators outside of his case, and reporting a 3.5C improvement in the CPU - in-case temperature results - so you just know it's gotta be accurate!
. . . .

well, if I don't comment on their pump - what would I say about 'testing' ?
did BigBen give it the WBTA blessing ?
(BTW Cathar, it is known that DD spent ~$600 on a Haake A82 chiller (eBay) - can only be for testing no ?)

no reason for fear Cathar, just another piece in the puzzle
recognizing that ALL designs are compromises, one quibbles about the priorities;
the WCing world awaits YOUR verdict Cathar
eh, do you think DD will send out review samples ?
if so, to whom ?

pHaestus, have you done any begging this week ?

pHaestus · 02-06-2004, 04:15 PM

I haven't asked Dangerden for anything lately. Judging from ROKK's comments about my RBX review at xtremesystems, I kinda doubt I am on their short list for preview and review supplies.

Cathar · 02-06-2004, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaestus

I haven't asked Dangerden for anything lately. Judging from ROKK's comments about my RBX review at xtremesystems, I kinda doubt I am on their short list for preview and review supplies.

This I gotta read! Cup of coffee - check!

pHaestus · 02-06-2004, 05:12 PM

Nothing too serious but I think that offense was taken to my mounting comments. Judging from that thread though I'd expect the hardware reviewers who all posted there about how my comments were bogus would be ahead of me in line for review items

Cathar · 02-06-2004, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaestus

Nothing too serious but I think that offense was taken to my mounting comments. Judging from that thread though I'd expect the hardware reviewers who all posted there about how my comments were bogus would be ahead of me in line for review items

It certainly does seem that only customers and reviewers who paid for their blocks experiece said issue.

nexxo · 02-07-2004, 08:55 AM

Just an aside: I cama accross another 12V pump, brushless, performance roughly comparable to the MCP600. It is made in Australia and specs are listed :here:. Basically a Johnson CM30P7-1 but shorter, with brushless motor. Half the flow, but 7 times the lifespan...

Cathar · 02-07-2004, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nexxo

Just an aside: I cama accross another 12V pump, brushless, performance roughly comparable to the MCP600. It is made in Australia and specs are listed :here:. Basically a Johnson CM30P7-1 but shorter, with brushless motor. Half the flow, but 7 times the lifespan...

I have one - working in my second system - right now.

More info here

nexxo · 02-08-2004, 03:05 PM

Thanks that's useful info.

Just for laughs, I found another one :here:. If you have a big-ass case, and need serious cooling, and have serious money (and don't mind the noise this pump no doubts generates), this could be your baby! All metal, hand-polished or anodised in the colour of your choice. I'm trying to get some data on this one in any case.

Cathar · 02-10-2004, 03:09 AM

Here's my PQ curve for the Laing D4 @ 12V that I have here:

Les · 02-10-2004, 03:22 AM

At 22c with new tubing?
Did quick number check on your Laing D4 test data.

Cathar · 02-10-2004, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les

At 22c with new tubing?
Did quick number check on your Laing D4 test data.

Actually, yes, on both counts.

Tubing was brand new 1/2" ID Clearflex 60

Ambient was 21-22C in my house.

Cathar · 02-10-2004, 03:45 AM

The D4 pump I measured to be drawing ~17-20W, as opposed to the 12-15W that Laing says it does. This was verified with a multimeter monitoring the current draw and voltage supplied.

The pump is indeed sucking down more power, but giving greater performance as a result, at 12V than what Laing specify. The difference is large enough that I suspect a revision change as the Laing engineer I spoke to mentioned that they had been continually refining the pumps.

Cathar · 02-10-2004, 04:03 AM

More interesting is the pump's performance at higher voltages. The pump is rated at up to 24V operation due to it meant to be powered by solar cells from my understanding of why the pump exists.

At 16V (actually tested) the pump is an "almost" match in terms of performance with my 50Hz Iwaki MD30-RZ, but draws just 24W (rather than ~60W).

At 20V I estimate that it would be a dead-on match for a 50Hz MD40-RZ or a 60Hz MD30-RZ and draw around 32W, if it follows the same performance increase pattern that I'm seeing from 5V->16V.

Edit: I should add that this performance does come at a cost - and that is noise. At 12V the pump is about the same pitch/volume as a ~4000RPM 60mm fan. At 16V, more like a ~5000RPM 60mm fan, and at 20V I reckon you'd be remembering the bad old days of screaming delta 60mm fans.

pauldenton · 02-10-2004, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathar

More interesting is the pump's performance at higher voltages. The pump is rated at up to 24V operation due to it meant to be powered by solar cells from my understanding of why the pump exists.

At 16V (actually tested) the pump is an "almost" match in terms of performance with my 50Hz Iwaki MD30-RZ, but draws just 24W (rather than ~60W).

At 20V I estimate that it would be a dead-on match for a 50Hz MD40-RZ or a 60Hz MD30-RZ and draw around 32W, if it follows the same performance increase pattern that I'm seeing from 5V->16V.

Edit: I should add that this performance does come at a cost - and that is noise. At 12V the pump is about the same pitch/volume as a ~4000RPM 60mm fan. At 16V, more like a ~5000RPM 60mm fan, and at 20V I reckon you'd be remembering the bad old days of screaming delta 60mm fans.

hmm - how much quieter (and at what performance cost) would you get by dropping below 12V? ... the power draw seems within the specs of a sunbeam rheobus....

have you tried different orientations of the pump to see if that affects the noise? (seem to recall the mcp600 is quieter with the intake vertical...)

Cathar · 02-10-2004, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldenton

hmm - how much quieter (and at what performance cost) would you get by dropping below 12V? ... the power draw seems within the specs of a sunbeam rheobus....

have you tried different orientations of the pump to see if that affects the noise? (seem to recall the mcp600 is quieter with the intake vertical...)

My pump gets considerably quiter at below 10V. At 10V it's about the same volume/pitch as one of the Johnson CO30P5-1 pumps @ 12V from the Surplus Center (the pump that BB2K was talking about a while back).

At 7V it's about a match for an Eheim 1048 for performance, with a noise level that would not be easily heard outside of a closed case of a running system.

Roscal · 02-12-2004, 05:01 AM

I found this mfgr and I think it's the MCP600 reseller (graph and pics are the same ), true Billa

? : http://www.clarksol.com/html/prodspecsNH_PXDPump.htm

You could probably have a better price for these pumps directly to them, but not sure...

PS: I don't see this firm anywhere on this forum (search). If someone put it on a previous thread, sorry...

02-06-2004, 01:14 AM	#55
fhorst Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Almere, The Netherlands (Europe) Posts: 262	Hmm That baby looks nice! I guess I orderd my 2 mcp600 a bit to soon (but I'm happy with them) The price seems to be right, so I might be ordering one of these also, just to compair. The MCP still makes to much noise, but it's only running for 14 hrs now. It is supposed to get silent after 2 or 3 days... __________________ If it get's hot, it needs to be watercooled!

02-06-2004, 01:43 AM	#56
satanicoo Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: portugal Posts: 635	Am still holding to see what bill has to say... __________________ back.

02-06-2004, 04:15 PM	#61
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	I haven't asked Dangerden for anything lately. Judging from ROKK's comments about my RBX review at xtremesystems, I kinda doubt I am on their short list for preview and review supplies. __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

02-06-2004, 05:12 PM	#63
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Nothing too serious but I think that offense was taken to my mounting comments. Judging from that thread though I'd expect the hardware reviewers who all posted there about how my comments were bogus would be ahead of me in line for review items __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

02-07-2004, 08:55 AM	#65
nexxo Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brimingham, UK Posts: 385	Just an aside: I cama accross another 12V pump, brushless, performance roughly comparable to the MCP600. It is made in Australia and specs are listed :here:. Basically a Johnson CM30P7-1 but shorter, with brushless motor. Half the flow, but 7 times the lifespan... __________________ "There is a thin line between magic and madness"

02-05-2004, 08:25 PM	#51
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	Cathar, I"m wondering if the RD-30's cost is in the $400 USD range + 80 watts. What about the RD-20 which would be 48 watts, and would most likly cost no more or less thant he X 3 D4 pumps, while also avoiding the risk of the pumps overworking each other. And with the RD-20's 26+ ft. of head if you changed out your rads to dual 2-342, low resistence rads, could this not take you a long way towards your goal? Just another possible option. Although the rad change could also be done for any other pump you change to. Will be interesting to see what you gain in the end Cathar.

02-06-2004, 09:57 AM	#57
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	I am not inclined to 'knock' another (vendor's) product just to be panning it Cathar will doubtless be reporting his experience and PHaestus might even add the Laing to his pump testing article (as could I to the Swiftech comparative pump test article) but why not let DD test it ? and per their site they say they have already done so ??

02-06-2004, 02:43 PM	#58
dima y Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: palo alto, CA Posts: 164	Laing Thermotech raised the price for the D4 to $106 1-50 units and $96 for 50-250 units (bastards saw the demand) so i would say at this point hold off till dangerden starts selling them for 80 which is much better deal.

02-08-2004, 03:05 PM	#67
nexxo Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brimingham, UK Posts: 385	Thanks that's useful info. Just for laughs, I found another one :here:. If you have a big-ass case, and need serious cooling, and have serious money (and don't mind the noise this pump no doubts generates), this could be your baby! All metal, hand-polished or anodised in the colour of your choice. I'm trying to get some data on this one in any case. __________________ "There is a thin line between magic and madness"

02-10-2004, 03:09 AM	#68
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	Here's my PQ curve for the Laing D4 @ 12V that I have here:

02-10-2004, 03:22 AM	#69
Les Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Wigan UK Posts: 929	At 22c with new tubing? Did quick number check on your Laing D4 test data.

02-10-2004, 03:45 AM	#71
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	The D4 pump I measured to be drawing ~17-20W, as opposed to the 12-15W that Laing says it does. This was verified with a multimeter monitoring the current draw and voltage supplied. The pump is indeed sucking down more power, but giving greater performance as a result, at 12V than what Laing specify. The difference is large enough that I suspect a revision change as the Laing engineer I spoke to mentioned that they had been continually refining the pumps.

02-10-2004, 04:03 AM	#72
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	More interesting is the pump's performance at higher voltages. The pump is rated at up to 24V operation due to it meant to be powered by solar cells from my understanding of why the pump exists. At 16V (actually tested) the pump is an "almost" match in terms of performance with my 50Hz Iwaki MD30-RZ, but draws just 24W (rather than ~60W). At 20V I estimate that it would be a dead-on match for a 50Hz MD40-RZ or a 60Hz MD30-RZ and draw around 32W, if it follows the same performance increase pattern that I'm seeing from 5V->16V. Edit: I should add that this performance does come at a cost - and that is noise. At 12V the pump is about the same pitch/volume as a ~4000RPM 60mm fan. At 16V, more like a ~5000RPM 60mm fan, and at 20V I reckon you'd be remembering the bad old days of screaming delta 60mm fans. Last edited by Cathar; 02-10-2004 at 04:11 AM.

02-12-2004, 05:01 AM	#75
Roscal Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: North of France Posts: 198	I found this mfgr and I think it's the MCP600 reseller (graph and pics are the same ), true Billa ? : http://www.clarksol.com/html/prodspecsNH_PXDPump.htm You could probably have a better price for these pumps directly to them, but not sure... PS: I don't see this firm anywhere on this forum (search). If someone put it on a previous thread, sorry...

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