Bush or Kerry: slam the US!

[Lothar5150]

Originally Posted by AngryAlpaca

For the country, definitely.

......I believe that Bush and/or some of his major supporters are making hundreds of thousands/millions/billions.

Base on what...speculation or some fat multi-millionaire’s BS movie:shrug:

[Delirious]

No doubt bush and his supporters are making a killing off the war. I dont think he did it for oil though, for reasons already pointed out. Its a good thing we liberated Iraq I lived in the middle east for 10 years and while there one of my dads friends was killed by the bathist party, so liberation is definetly a good thing.

About the deficit, most of it came from 9/11, theres a pretty good chance that could of happened to anyone, but goin to war is what really put us heavily into debt.

[killernoodle]

Well, when do we invade all the other countries with an oppressive ruler?

[Delirious]

Originally Posted by killernoodle

Well, when do we invade all the other countries with an oppressive ruler?

It's never ending.

This where i think America has gone wrong, we need to stop trying to police the whole world. Felt that way before and after 9/11

[AngryAlpaca]

When hell freezes over? Or, after they have nukes and can counter your attack.

I know that George Bush started one oil company, ran a second, and probably has huge quantities of money invested in many others. Condoleeza Rice ran an oil company for 9 years, and also probably has huge quantities of money invested in many others.

A company tied to Vice President Dick Cheney has won a Pentagon contract for advice on rebuilding Iraq's oil fields after a possible war.

Don't feel like looking up more, or looking deeper, but they aren't exactly uninvolved with oil. What was that big Halliburton thing in the news? I'm not sure, but it seems that Bush is smart enough to avoid being caught on most situations.

To be honest I never knew that Michael Moore supported the "big oil pimp" theory, but it isn't suprising given either Bush's or Moore's previous history.

[deathBOB]

Well, when do we invade all the other countries with an oppressive ruler?

Seriously, when are we going to attack North Korea? We KNOW they have nuclear weapons and they are as oppressive as Saddam was... Why dont we "liberate" them?

[BalefireX]

Originally Posted by deathBOB

Seriously, when are we going to attack North Korea? We KNOW they have nuclear weapons and they are as oppressive as Saddam was... Why dont we "liberate" them?

it appears it is becoming a trend for people to provide the answer within their question

MAD - look it up.

[Lothar5150]

Originally Posted by killernoodle

Well, when do we invade all the other countries with an oppressive ruler?

Do you fundamentally believe in freedom or just your own freedom? Interesting no one complains about Kosovo.

Originally Posted by deathBOB

Seriously, when are we going to attack North Korea? We KNOW they have nuclear weapons and they are as oppressive as Saddam was... Why dont we "liberate" them?

I'm all for taking down Kim Jong-il. I volunteered for Iraq and I would do the same for taking down Kim.

AngryAlpaca go to factcheck.org and look at the VP's income from Halliburton. He receives payments on money the company owes him from his employment. Moreover, his stock options all are paid to charities...He has no finical gain from contracts.

If you want to talk greed, I would look at the French and Russian companies that circumvented the UN sanctions.

[Lothar5150]

Originally Posted by BalefireX

it appears it is becoming a trend for people to provide the answer within their question

MAD - look it up.

MAD does not apply to North Korea. Thier best missle only ranges out to Japan. At best they may have four devices.

[Chew_Toy]

I think if North Korea would ever become a real problem it wouldnt take much encouragement from the US for the south to do the job themselves

[Lothar5150]

Originally Posted by Chew_Toy

I think if North Korea would ever become a real problem it wouldnt take much encouragement from the US for the south to do the job themselves

I don’t think they would need much help ether. South Koreans are great warriors.

[Chew_Toy]

I watched some of thier training and was quite impressed. What a lot of people dont know is that they had 50k troops in viet nam and were probably the most feared of all the troops there.

[Lothar5150]

Originally Posted by Chew_Toy

I watched some of thier training and was quite impressed. What a lot of people dont know is that they had 50k troops in viet nam and were probably the most feared of all the troops there.

My uncle served in the same area of operation with some of the ROC Marines in Vietnam. He said they were mean as hell.

I trained with them a few times and they are much disciplined and highly motivated.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by unregistered

not gonna be a dem White House any time soon

Hehe I am going to remember that quote since Unless bush pulls out a ballanced budget out of his ass, finds Osama in his ass, or in general stops being a dumb shit... I think the chances are quite good for one of the retreads to make it into office.

[Lothar5150]

Originally Posted by Joe

Hehe I am going to remember that quote since Unless bush pulls out a ballanced budget out of his ass, finds Osama in his ass, or in general stops being a dumb shit... I think the chances are quite good for one of the retreads to make it into office.

John Kerry (49%) and George W. Bush (48%) remain in a statistical dead heat among likely voters, according to the latest CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll

Flip a coin 2% or less and it is anyone’s election...any beats on a Constitutional crisis

[Tempus]

Originally Posted by Lothar5150

My uncle served in the same area of operation with some of the ROC Marines in Vietnam. He said they were mean as hell.

I trained with them a few times and they are much disciplined and highly motivated.

Where were you at? I was at Camp Howze in 96. ROC guys are pretty badass. Even our Katusa's were tough nuts.

[Tempus]

Originally Posted by Lothar5150

I don’t think they would need much help ether. South Koreans are great warriors.

I gotta tackle this one. As badass as the roc army is, the north has some serious toys and a whole lot of arty up in the mountains, most of which can range in 10Km or so.

Odds are the DMZ is just going to get leveled with the amount of fire power both sides are throwing. The last plans I looked at showed 100% US casualties (for the in country troops) and 40-60% SK prior to the US counter attack.


---------------

And everyone is forgetting the big reason we have been relucant to tackle NK - China. That sleeping dragon is awful big.

[Lothar5150]

Originally Posted by Tempus

Where were you at? I was at Camp Howze in 96. ROC guys are pretty badass. Even our Katusa's were tough nuts.

They came to us, I am fortunate enough to not have been stationed in Korea

Originally Posted by Tempus

I gotta tackle this one. As badass as the roc army is, the north has some serious toys and a whole lot of arty up in the mountains, most of which can range in 10Km or so.

Odds are the DMZ is just going to get leveled with the amount of fire power both sides are throwing. The last plans I looked at showed 100% US casualties (for the in country troops) and 40-60% SK prior to the US counter attack.

Humm... can't discuss war plans but as you have seen in Iraq CAS is spooky accurate now.

[toastyghost]

Originally Posted by Lothar5150

Do you fundamentally believe in freedom or just your own freedom? Interesting no one complains about Kosovo.

It is now time for you to stop calling yourself a liberal. Seriously. For the record, I didn't give a shit about Kosovo any more than I do Iraq; the difference is how it was approached and the cost, both monetary and human. Clinton didn't put a HALF MILLION ****ING GROUND TROOPS into Albania, he didn't trivialize the UN's procedure, and he sure as hell wouldn't have committed the military force that he did to it without at least some semblance of approval from the public, which by the way actually ELECTED him, as opposed to the Supreme Court appointee currently occupying the Oval Office. I'm glad you had a fun vacation in Iraq but now that my best friend is over there and the "operation" basically consists of standing around and getting suicide bombed, I'm a little more vehemently opposed to Bush and his shitheaded war supposedly on terror. Someone should tell him to bum rush the Saudis while we're in the neighborhood; they're more responsible for 9/11 than Hussein. I'm not being soft on Hussein at all but I'm saying I don't much give a shit about foreign policing when our own country here at home is getting ****ed by its leadership on a more insidious level.

I'm all for taking down Kim Jong-il. I volunteered for Iraq and I would do the same for taking down Kim.

I too am all for the ousting of dictators. Let's start with Bush.

AngryAlpaca go to factcheck.org and look at the VP's income from Halliburton. He receives payments on money the company owes him from his employment. Moreover, his stock options all are paid to charities...He has no finical gain from contracts.

You mean factcheck.com? Come on, Halliburton doesn't even pay taxes in this country, you honestly think there isn't some loophole by which Cheney could still be in their pocket? I realize that I'm purely speculating on this, but I don't think that my reasons for suspicion are unfounded.

If you want to talk greed, I would look at the French and Russian companies that circumvented the UN sanctions.

"That's great! When do we start bombing western Europe?" -Get Your War On
Operative word: companies. Not governments. I realize that line might have gotten a bit blurred in the States in the last four years, but you should still at least try to seem that you're making a distinction between private corporations and THE ****ING UN.

[toastyghost]

Ok let me get this straight... a forum run by a Libertarian has a PROFANITY FILTER? What is going on here?

[pHaestus]

Joe set up the forums and he's a Democrat
There are (I THINK) 3 words filtered

F U C K
O U T W A R
O C Z

[pHaestus]

My unqualified ramblings on politics:

It's interesting to see that "liberal" and "conservative" don't really apply to the Democrats or Republicans in their current form. Certainly the balooning national debt , the large troop commitments overseas, and the large increase in govt jobs (Homeland Security etc etc) aren't conservative.

The politics of the US are interesting because you have large sections of the country that belong to a party for very different reasons. Take the NW US Republicans: those are true conservatives who want low taxes, small govt, and to be left the hell alone to do what they wilt. Then take the SE US Republicans: those are "moral" conservatives who vote Republican largely over abortion and gay-rights and desires for things like prayer in schools instead of evolution. The same is certainly true for the Massachusetts Democrat vs. the Californian Democrat.

My personal opinion on Iraq is that it wasn't over oil or immediate profit as much as it was about drawing the terrorism and our foes into a location where they can fight it out with our soldiers instead of with our civilians and our infrastructure at home. Makes sense to me; I'd assume suicide bombers get first crack at the hot virgins for "expelling the infidels". It also give us a strong presence near Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Iran "just in case".

I have a fear that, barring an improvement in our economy, after the Jan Iraqi elections Bush will begin to quietly withdraw from Iraq and the country will collapse into civil war. I honestly don't know though if that's better or worse than a draft and a decade of war in the streets of Iraq*. It's just something I can see coming.

*This honestly seems more likely with Kerry president to me...

[Lothar5150]

Originally Posted by toastyghost

It is now time for you to stop calling yourself a liberal. Seriously. For the record, I didn't give a shit about Kosovo any more than I do Iraq; the difference is how it was approached and the cost, both monetary and human. Clinton didn't put a HALF MILLION ****ING GROUND TROOPS

There are a little over 100,000 Troops in Iraq... Not even close to half a million. Note they are all volunteer warriors not conscripts.

I too am all for the ousting of dictators. Let's start with Bush.

You obviously have no idea what a real dictator is or how people suffer under one.

You mean factcheck.com? Come on, Halliburton doesn't even pay taxes in this country, you honestly think there isn't some loophole by which Cheney could still be in their pocket? I realize that I'm purely speculating on this, but I don't think that my reasons for suspicion are unfounded.

Speculation- is just that

"Operative word: companies. Not governments. I realize that line might have gotten a bit blurred in the States in the last four years, but you should still at least try to seem that you're making a distinction between private corporations and THE ****ING UN.

The French and Russian governments where in bed with the BA'ATHIST as were officials in the UN. Why do you think the UN is dragging their feet investigating the allegations?

Do you believe in peace at any cost? :shrug:

[BillA]

it is apparent that rabid and reason are antithetical

tg - you are consistently spouting nonsense, exaggerations and ignorant statements as if they were fact
come to the party, the world is as it is - not as your imagination would have it

[Lothar5150]

Originally Posted by pHaestus

My unqualified ramblings on politics:

It's interesting to see that "liberal" and "conservative" don't really apply to the Democrats or Republicans in their current form. Certainly the balooning national debt , the large troop commitments overseas, and the large increase in govt jobs (Homeland Security etc etc) aren't conservative.

The politics of the US are interesting because you have large sections of the country that belong to a party for very different reasons. Take the NW US Republicans: those are true conservatives who want low taxes, small govt, and to be left the hell alone to do what they wilt. Then take the SE US Republicans: those are "moral" conservatives who vote Republican largely over abortion and gay-rights and desires for things like prayer in schools instead of evolution. The same is certainly true for the Massachusetts Democrat vs. the Californian Democrat.

My personal opinion on Iraq is that it wasn't over oil or immediate profit as much as it was about drawing the terrorism and our foes into a location where they can fight it out with our soldiers instead of with our civilians and our infrastructure at home. Makes sense to me; I'd assume suicide bombers get first crack at the hot virgins for "expelling the infidels". It also give us a strong presence near Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Iran "just in case".

I have a fear that, barring an improvement in our economy, after the Jan Iraqi elections Bush will begin to quietly withdraw from Iraq and the country will collapse into civil war. I honestly don't know though if that's better or worse than a draft and a decade of war in the streets of Iraq*. It's just something I can see coming.

*This honestly seems more likely with Kerry president to me...

I agree with your overall observation of the political landscape in America.

I think no matter what happens to the economy we will remain in Iraq... failure there will follow us home.

The reason why people are out of work is because the economy is in flux. Clinton was right when he said, “you might have 5 or 6 jobs in your lifetime”

Manufacturing jobs in this country are gone. By the time, we start to have large-scale manufacturing again; it will be completely decentralized and only require only a few people to run a completely automated plant. This happened to farms….how many people are needed to harvest wheat now?

What’s desperately needed now is Doctors, Nurses, Engineers etc… in fact there are an astounding number of visa issued for these jobs because we don’t produce enough of these professional ourselves. Kerry might have impress me if he would come clean like Clinton and tell people they have the wrong set of skills but I’m going to make sure you get the training you need and ensure you don’t loose your house.