I'm a fat bastard: time to go on a diet - Page 2

bigben2k · 07-15-2003, 08:00 AM

That's it! That's the 4th "white": starch! (found in potatoes, bread)

So flour, milk, sugar and starch, are to be avoided, as the body turns them in some form or other of sugar, which defeats the diet.

Tuff · 07-15-2003, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by airspirit
Okay, I'm on day 2 and I'm already in mad ketosis. I just took a test and I'm off the charts, hehe. That means I'm burning fat like a mofo. Skinnyspirit here I come!

By the way, I am not hungry in the least and I'm not faint anymore. This rawks.

Keep in mind that Ketones...can kill you...if they build up too much in the blood stream...they can cause heart failure or a stroke or cause other internal organs to shut down.

These symptoms can sometimes be confused with Heatstroke. So be careful.

I may not be an expert on ProCooling...but I know the Body.

14 years of competative bodybuilding and I also have my papers in Nutrition.

Low Carb diets work well for weight loss but...are NOT safe.

People tend to gain weight back very quickly after the diet is stopped. The reason for this is that the body thinks it has been starving so it attempts to store up FAT again.

Tuff....if you have any questions...you may pm. I would be happy to help out.

airspirit · 07-15-2003, 10:09 AM

Eh, I was just at my doctor for a physical (had to reup the asthma medicine) and she did everything except look me in the eye and tell me I'm fscked. My cholesterol is through the roof and my blood pressure is astronomical. The funny thing is that she recommended this diet, and was surprised when I told her I had just started ("one step ahead of you, doc!").

Weight this morning is -4lbs from the start. This is probably just water (though I'm up to 7x24oz bottles of it per day), so I don't put much stock in the change at this point.

Tuff, I'll bear your concerns in mind and do more research. From what I've seen so far, the high ketone levels are only dangerous if there is previous organ damage (kidneys, gallbladder, etc), but will not actually cause these problems in and of itself. I'll keep digging, though.

Boli · 07-15-2003, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
That's it! That's the 4th "white": starch! (found in potatoes, bread)

So flour, milk, sugar and starch, are to be avoided, as the body turns them in some form or other of sugar, which defeats the diet.

That all my favourite ingredients!

airspirit · 07-15-2003, 06:29 PM

Okay, the issue that tuff raised is a confusion between ketosis and ketoacidosis, the first being good and natural, and the second being a diabetic condition. There is nothing wrong on that end or anybody dieting the low fat way would be screwed as well.

I'm starting to get really heavy ketone release ... my breath is starting to taste like overripe apples. It's not bad, just weird. BTW, diabetics get weird breath like this too.

I'll post from time to time to let you guys know my progress. My initial goal is 165 by 8/15.

Boli · 07-15-2003, 06:58 PM

This may seem a silly idea... but couln't you just take up a sport... like swimming. Every morning consume a sugery drink and swim for an hour?

The sugar would be burnt up as fuel to keep you going and your body reserves wouldbe burnt to build up the muscles you are using (In swimming mainly your thighs and shoulders).

NB don't try excersing on an empty stomach you won't get past five minuites and you'll feel bad for the rest of the day THAT I can atest to.

Each day you would force yourself to do better,and better and in the end you will actually enjoy it as you become more active.... you will also sleep a lot better at night.

I just wish I had never given it up due to workload.

The human body is not built for sitting down all day.

You will have to of course eat carbohydrates... though you can restrict your intake somewhat... though not entirely

airspirit · 07-15-2003, 08:12 PM

I'm running now. I also do my martial arts. I think that's enough for now, and I'll be doing it on my diet plan.

pHaestus · 07-15-2003, 09:14 PM

Any diet that doesn't allow for a cold beer or three after work is not acceptable to me.

mikoto · 07-15-2003, 10:17 PM

Zone diet.

I know it sounds cheesey but look it up. It's the stuff, I promise you. Best of all it is not a weight loss diet, rather a healthy way of eating.

Get, A Week In The Zone. it is a little, cheap, primer on the diet. The guy who developed the diet won the nobel prize for the research involved.

MadDogMe · 07-16-2003, 03:27 AM

I weigh about 135 (64K/10.25stone. roughly) and am 5,11" short. I can safely say I don't have much fat on me

. How about gaining weight in the right places?. I eat shed loads of sugar and starch, full cream dairy products but never put weight on?!!. I've always been skinny. I'm fairly active (comparitivly!), I cycle or walk at least a couple~few miles every day, but I never get my second wind, which I think is quite important...

Tuff?, any recomendations?. I've been thinking of swimming mainly (learning!, I can't actualy swim yet

)...

Boli · 07-16-2003, 06:43 AM

Swimming is one of the best excersies you could do... but you WILL NOT gain huge bicepts other impressive bodily feature from doing so unless you work out as well.

Bear that in mind... swmiing DOES work every muscle in the body but only a few REALLY develop. (depending on stroke)

Learn to swim though it is the most relaxing excersise... and at the same time the most tireing.

Tuff · 07-16-2003, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MadDogMe
I weigh about 135 (64K/10.25stone. roughly) and am 5,11" short.

Tuff?, any recomendations?. I've been thinking of swimming mainly (learning!, I can't actualy swim yet )...

Swimming---->ever seen a duck? If you have ever watched swimming meets..IE Pro's...the ones on TV you will find them to be slim..but not well built...is this the look you are going for?

The reason they are slim is that they do not do much Resistance training. ie Weights.

Also...if you constantly eat sugar its most likely that your Metabolism is bouncing around like a Yoyo. We need to get that under control.

High metabolism means that you can metabolize food quickly and efficiently and in essence Burn it off.

Unfortunately putting the weight on in the "right" places can take a long time.

There are shortcuts...ie drugs..but the downside outweighs the return.

Anyhow..here is what I suggest.

Join a gym, if you are not familiar with the machines and free weights get some instruction. Start with just basic movements, moderate weight.

Eat 6 times a day...Breakfast..Snack..Lunch..Snack..Supper..Ligh t Snack. This will regulate your metabolism for you. <--This goes for anyone wanting to change the shape of their body. Be it gaining or losing.

Limit Fat. This is not the kind of weight you want to put on.

Eat...Potatoes...Rice...Pasta as your main Carb intake.
Snacks...Fruits and Vegetables.
For weight gain...stick to RED meats...though keep and eye on the cuts of the meat..NOT FAT.
Weight loss..."Some" fish and chicken <-----very good for hardening of the muscles.
Google fish...as some are really high in Cholesterol.

Red meats contain Creatine..do a google on it... you will like the results.

Try to eat clean food and maintain around 3000 Calories a day...coupled with a good lifting program...the weight should come on quite well.

And something the whole world should know...To put the weight on properly..is not much different than eating to take it off.

Take note of this...put the wrong fuel in your vehicle... the engine does not work properly or not at all...your BODY is the same way.

I can add more later if you have specifics...just PM

Tuff

airspirit · 07-16-2003, 10:00 AM

In the end I'll be doing what he said above, but without the carbohydrates and inevitable lactic acidosis, since my muscles will be burning ketones (preferred muscle food, and straight off the fat reserves) rather than glucose.

-7.8 lbs so far. I'm out of the "water weight loss" zone.

Oh, and this is while eating six slices of bacon with my three egg mushroom, cheese, and pepper omelet this morning. If everything goes well, I'll be over the -10 lbs point by friday.

It's interesting that when you look at diet from a historical perspective, it wasn't until the last 50 yrs that carbohydrates became such a large percentage on calorie intake (the average american eats 800cal of sugar alone). Prior to then, fat was the primary calorie source and people weren't obese like today, and they didn't have as much heart troubles ... just a thought. The greeks eat tons of fat and very little carbs as a whole, and they have the lowest rate of heart disease and one of the longest life expectancies in europe. *shrugs*

bigben2k · 07-16-2003, 10:18 AM

Hang in there!

Your weight might stabilize for two or three days, as things stabilize.

Tuff · 07-16-2003, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by airspirit
In the end I'll be doing what he said above, but without the carbohydrates and inevitable lactic acidosis, since my muscles will be burning ketones (preferred muscle food, and straight off the fat reserves) rather than glucose.

-7.8 lbs so far. I'm out of the "water weight loss" zone.

Oh, and this is while eating six slices of bacon with my three egg mushroom, cheese, and pepper omelet this morning. If everything goes well, I'll be over the -10 lbs point by friday.

It's interesting that when you look at diet from a historical perspective, it wasn't until the last 50 yrs that carbohydrates became such a large percentage on calorie intake (the average american eats 800cal of sugar alone). Prior to then, fat was the primary calorie source and people weren't obese like today, and they didn't have as much heart troubles ... just a thought. The greeks eat tons of fat and very little carbs as a whole, and they have the lowest rate of heart disease and one of the longest life expectancies in europe. *shrugs*

Fat does not necessarly mean chlolesterol...do a google on Choleserol.

Tuff

airspirit · 07-16-2003, 11:56 PM

I know about cholesterol. This diet has been clinically proven repeatedly to lower it. For the first couple mos while adjusting it goes up, then it drops dramatically. That is part of the reason I'm doing this as well, since right now I'm a ticking time bomb.

Please, I don't want to argue this, as this is THE fracture line in nutritional science right now, and neither side is willing to accept the other. I do find it interesting, however, that this has been around for 30yrs, and there hasn't been a study yet linking people on this specific diet to an increased risk in any category. The studies you hear now about cancer risks and whatnot are people on a high carb/high fat diet with the high fat being blamed while the science demonstrates that there is only clinical danger if the fat is accompanied by simple carbs. Every study I have found that hints that this diet MAY be bad always has a footnote that demonstrates that it wasn't REALLY this diet that was compared.

Regardless of the clinical data I could provide (I've done my homework, as always), I know I couldn't change your mind, so why push it? I have other threads to become a flamethrowing ass in ... I'd like to keep the brimstone out of this one for a change

edit: besides, if things get bad I can always flush my tubes with a *sol mixture to get rid of the gunk, right Ben?

bigben2k · 07-17-2003, 12:43 AM

Actually, my dad wanted me to try this intestine cleansing diet, where I'd only eat grapes for 40 straight days...

If you really want to flush your system, of all that alleged red meat that's been there for days or weeks

, you might go that way

. There's a book on it too: I've actually seen it!

airspirit · 07-17-2003, 10:52 AM

40 days and 40 nights of diarrhea ... no thank you! Oh my god, by the end of that you might as well move your desk into the bathroom!

airspirit · 07-21-2003, 09:59 AM

One week total: -13.4 lbs. So far so good.

Tempus · 07-25-2003, 09:25 AM

Still doing okay? How much weight loss now?

BillA · 07-25-2003, 08:01 PM

study

Tuff · 07-26-2003, 12:23 AM

I did not read all of that...did they mention that the body is canabalzing Muscle??? and storing Fat???

Tuff

BillA · 07-26-2003, 02:32 PM

really stuupiid question
if you could not expend the effort to read it, why the question ?
let it slide - read more, post less

BTW, your agenda is showing

ciscokid454 · 07-26-2003, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
The Atkins diet is available in paperback. It shouldn't be hard to find, even at Wall-Wart!

Actually, I'm a full 5' 10 1/2": whoever thought they were a stick, is not alone! Ideally, I'd put on about 20 lbs, but the most I ever got to, was 155, then I got a chronic intestine infection (Crohn's disease), spent 10 days at the hospital, and dropped to 127lbs just in time for my best friend's wedding, so I've got the bony faced picture to prove it.

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy!

Join the club, I got crohn's when I was 15, still have it I assume, but it's been in remission for 4 years, nearly killed me too..

superart · 07-27-2003, 12:17 AM

my mom does the whole atkins thing. It seems to work for her.

One thing she makes when shes on it is her "taco salad" recepe. its really good.

1 lb ground beef (like the kind for making hamburger)
1 packet taco bell taco mix
crapload lettuce (chopped up)
.5 - 1 lb shreded cheese (can be any flavor or a combo)
1 tub sour cream (regular, not light or fat free)

Follow instructions on Taco Bell package for making the beef
spread beef on cookee sheet after finished making it
spread layer of sour cream over it
spread layer of chopped up lettuce over that
cover with cheese

may be eaten right away or refrigerated to make it "stick togather"

Its actually really good. Me and my dad would always eat it before she would have a chance to.

Then she would get all mad and start screaming.

07-15-2003, 08:00 AM	#26
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	That's it! That's the 4th "white": starch! (found in potatoes, bread) So flour, milk, sugar and starch, are to be avoided, as the body turns them in some form or other of sugar, which defeats the diet. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-15-2003, 10:09 AM	#28
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Eh, I was just at my doctor for a physical (had to reup the asthma medicine) and she did everything except look me in the eye and tell me I'm fscked. My cholesterol is through the roof and my blood pressure is astronomical. The funny thing is that she recommended this diet, and was surprised when I told her I had just started ("one step ahead of you, doc!"). Weight this morning is -4lbs from the start. This is probably just water (though I'm up to 7x24oz bottles of it per day), so I don't put much stock in the change at this point. Tuff, I'll bear your concerns in mind and do more research. From what I've seen so far, the high ketone levels are only dangerous if there is previous organ damage (kidneys, gallbladder, etc), but will not actually cause these problems in and of itself. I'll keep digging, though. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

07-15-2003, 06:29 PM	#30
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Okay, the issue that tuff raised is a confusion between ketosis and ketoacidosis, the first being good and natural, and the second being a diabetic condition. There is nothing wrong on that end or anybody dieting the low fat way would be screwed as well. I'm starting to get really heavy ketone release ... my breath is starting to taste like overripe apples. It's not bad, just weird. BTW, diabetics get weird breath like this too. I'll post from time to time to let you guys know my progress. My initial goal is 165 by 8/15. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

07-15-2003, 08:12 PM	#32
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	I'm running now. I also do my martial arts. I think that's enough for now, and I'll be doing it on my diet plan. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

07-16-2003, 10:00 AM	#38
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	In the end I'll be doing what he said above, but without the carbohydrates and inevitable lactic acidosis, since my muscles will be burning ketones (preferred muscle food, and straight off the fat reserves) rather than glucose. -7.8 lbs so far. I'm out of the "water weight loss" zone. Oh, and this is while eating six slices of bacon with my three egg mushroom, cheese, and pepper omelet this morning. If everything goes well, I'll be over the -10 lbs point by friday. It's interesting that when you look at diet from a historical perspective, it wasn't until the last 50 yrs that carbohydrates became such a large percentage on calorie intake (the average american eats 800cal of sugar alone). Prior to then, fat was the primary calorie source and people weren't obese like today, and they didn't have as much heart troubles ... just a thought. The greeks eat tons of fat and very little carbs as a whole, and they have the lowest rate of heart disease and one of the longest life expectancies in europe. shrugs __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

07-15-2003, 06:58 PM	#31
Boli Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackburn / Dundee Posts: 451	This may seem a silly idea... but couln't you just take up a sport... like swimming. Every morning consume a sugery drink and swim for an hour? The sugar would be burnt up as fuel to keep you going and your body reserves wouldbe burnt to build up the muscles you are using (In swimming mainly your thighs and shoulders). NB don't try excersing on an empty stomach you won't get past five minuites and you'll feel bad for the rest of the day THAT I can atest to. Each day you would force yourself to do better,and better and in the end you will actually enjoy it as you become more active.... you will also sleep a lot better at night. I just wish I had never given it up due to workload. The human body is not built for sitting down all day. You will have to of course eat carbohydrates... though you can restrict your intake somewhat... though not entirely

07-15-2003, 09:14 PM	#33
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Any diet that doesn't allow for a cold beer or three after work is not acceptable to me.

07-15-2003, 10:17 PM	#34
mikoto Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: smog Posts: 47	Zone diet. I know it sounds cheesey but look it up. It's the stuff, I promise you. Best of all it is not a weight loss diet, rather a healthy way of eating. Get, A Week In The Zone. it is a little, cheap, primer on the diet. The guy who developed the diet won the nobel prize for the research involved.

07-16-2003, 03:27 AM	#35
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	I weigh about 135 (64K/10.25stone. roughly) and am 5,11" short. I can safely say I don't have much fat on me . How about gaining weight in the right places?. I eat shed loads of sugar and starch, full cream dairy products but never put weight on?!!. I've always been skinny. I'm fairly active (comparitivly!), I cycle or walk at least a couple~few miles every day, but I never get my second wind, which I think is quite important... Tuff?, any recomendations?. I've been thinking of swimming mainly (learning!, I can't actualy swim yet )...

07-16-2003, 06:43 AM	#36
Boli Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackburn / Dundee Posts: 451	Swimming is one of the best excersies you could do... but you WILL NOT gain huge bicepts other impressive bodily feature from doing so unless you work out as well. Bear that in mind... swmiing DOES work every muscle in the body but only a few REALLY develop. (depending on stroke) Learn to swim though it is the most relaxing excersise... and at the same time the most tireing.

07-16-2003, 10:18 AM	#39
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Hang in there! Your weight might stabilize for two or three days, as things stabilize. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-16-2003, 11:56 PM	#41
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	I know about cholesterol. This diet has been clinically proven repeatedly to lower it. For the first couple mos while adjusting it goes up, then it drops dramatically. That is part of the reason I'm doing this as well, since right now I'm a ticking time bomb. Please, I don't want to argue this, as this is THE fracture line in nutritional science right now, and neither side is willing to accept the other. I do find it interesting, however, that this has been around for 30yrs, and there hasn't been a study yet linking people on this specific diet to an increased risk in any category. The studies you hear now about cancer risks and whatnot are people on a high carb/high fat diet with the high fat being blamed while the science demonstrates that there is only clinical danger if the fat is accompanied by simple carbs. Every study I have found that hints that this diet MAY be bad always has a footnote that demonstrates that it wasn't REALLY this diet that was compared. Regardless of the clinical data I could provide (I've done my homework, as always), I know I couldn't change your mind, so why push it? I have other threads to become a flamethrowing ass in ... I'd like to keep the brimstone out of this one for a change edit: besides, if things get bad I can always flush my tubes with a *sol mixture to get rid of the gunk, right Ben? __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

07-17-2003, 12:43 AM	#42
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Actually, my dad wanted me to try this intestine cleansing diet, where I'd only eat grapes for 40 straight days... If you really want to flush your system, of all that alleged red meat that's been there for days or weeks , you might go that way . There's a book on it too: I've actually seen it! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-17-2003, 10:52 AM	#43
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	40 days and 40 nights of diarrhea ... no thank you! Oh my god, by the end of that you might as well move your desk into the bathroom! __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

07-21-2003, 09:59 AM	#44
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	One week total: -13.4 lbs. So far so good. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

07-25-2003, 09:25 AM	#45
Tempus Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 456	Still doing okay? How much weight loss now? __________________ Thou art God.

07-25-2003, 08:01 PM	#46
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	study

07-26-2003, 12:23 AM	#47
Tuff Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 141	I did not read all of that...did they mention that the body is canabalzing Muscle??? and storing Fat??? Tuff

07-26-2003, 02:32 PM	#48
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	really stuupiid question if you could not expend the effort to read it, why the question ? let it slide - read more, post less BTW, your agenda is showing

07-27-2003, 12:17 AM	#50
superart Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: FL Posts: 787	my mom does the whole atkins thing. It seems to work for her. One thing she makes when shes on it is her "taco salad" recepe. its really good. 1 lb ground beef (like the kind for making hamburger) 1 packet taco bell taco mix crapload lettuce (chopped up) .5 - 1 lb shreded cheese (can be any flavor or a combo) 1 tub sour cream (regular, not light or fat free) Follow instructions on Taco Bell package for making the beef spread beef on cookee sheet after finished making it spread layer of sour cream over it spread layer of chopped up lettuce over that cover with cheese may be eaten right away or refrigerated to make it "stick togather" Its actually really good. Me and my dad would always eat it before she would have a chance to. Then she would get all mad and start screaming. __________________ When you do things right, people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all. Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer.

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