Johnson pump deal? - Page 9

bigben2k · 07-30-2003, 09:50 PM

It actually has a small whir. If rubber mounted, it should be almost unnoticeable. Also, the whir might go away, once the brushes have some wear on them, maybe.

edit: I'll post the rubber grommet specs, once I get them.

sevisehda · 07-31-2003, 03:08 AM

The first few days my pump was loud, I wondered if it was even worth using. It gradually got quieter over about a week. There is a small buzz but thats because my mounting is slightly off. Compared to the 3 fans in the system its nearly silent.

frobnitz · 07-31-2003, 10:21 AM

Interesting. Is there a particular orientation of the pump that is required so the brushes will "set"? When you talk about the mount being slightly off, does that mean it has to be in a certain atititude for maximum quietness?

Thanks,
Frob

CoolROD · 07-31-2003, 10:28 AM

The brushes don't care about the mounting pos. , but the thrust surfaces of the armature and possibly the impeller might...

What is the verdict -is it a mag drive? If it is direct drive then there is no thrust surface for the impeller -just the armature.

bigben2k · 07-31-2003, 10:31 AM

The pump must be mounted either horizontally, or with the head down (aka motor up). (as per the manual)

It's a direct drive all right.

CoolROD · 07-31-2003, 12:01 PM

Just got my Johnson C030P5-1 ! Man this thing is small. Surplus Center get's an A+ for packaging. They even repacked the pump with shipping paper inside it's original box. The instructions mention a bracket -Did you get one?

trit187 · 07-31-2003, 12:59 PM

i did, it was basically an open ended circle with flattened ends and screw holes (for mounting), fairly simple, should be able to pick up something similiar at a hardware store if you need to, I'll post a pic if you want

CoolROD · 07-31-2003, 01:20 PM

I can fab. something -but pics are always nice! Thanks.

trit187 · 07-31-2003, 02:26 PM

here it is

CoolROD · 07-31-2003, 02:34 PM

I see...Thank You!

But I still feel cheated.

bigben2k · 07-31-2003, 03:47 PM

That's it all right.

Rubber grommet dimensions:
9/16" OD by 1/4" ID. Fits perfectly, and allows using a 1/4" screw to secure it.

Hillman p/n 881253, available at Lowe's.

Are you sure it wasn't in the box? The first pump came to me shipped in aJohnson box. The second came in a much larger box, with lots of paper, but no small Johnson box. The bracket was still there. Maybe you ought to e-mail them.:shrug:

sevisehda · 07-31-2003, 04:19 PM

I used the same spec gromets that ben mentioned. The pump is balanced in the bracket, so if you were to set it on a table it wouldn't tip to one side. The problem with my mount is the bolt to tighten the bracket touches 1 of the bolts that connects it to the case. This somewhat negate the dampening effect. It will take 10minuts to change but lately I haven't had the time, plus my comps been going about 11 days without a restart and I want to see how long she can go.

bigben2k · 07-31-2003, 05:12 PM

Strange.

I didn't tighten the bracket very much, and I still have a 1/4" clearance.

You can gain another 1/16" by pushing the grommet to the outside.

CoolROD · 08-05-2003, 06:30 PM

My Johnson C030P5-1 will lift a water column 83.1/2 inches --> My Eheim 1048 will lift water 61 inches. The numbers posted here indicate maximum lift above the the water level in which the pumps were submerged. The pumps were submerged about 2.1/2" at their inlet and oriented with their outlet at the top.

The Johnson will lift water well above 83.1/2 but the flow can not be maintained for any reasonable period of time. The numbers that I posted are the level at which the water receeds to and appears to stabilize. NOTE: The water level was not completely stable -It would oscillate up and down some fraction of an inch as the water column lifted and fell with some momentum. I was using 1/2" I/D hose.

The Johnson flow was very energetic compared to the Eheim 1048 and I feel that the 1/2" hose is a restriction because the pump gains efficiency with increased flow.

My king flow meter registered 1 GPM for the Eheim and 1.5 GPM for the Johnson. These numbers do not indicate the performance of the pump as the water coming out of the flow meter was only a small percentage of the pumps nonrestricted flow. My flow meter routes water through (4) 1/8" holes -very restrictive! I will time a measured volume through the pump(s) to try and gather enough points to generate a curve. Again, I think that I need to wait until I have some 3/4 I.D. hose to do the Johnson any justice.

Does anyone have any flow numbers for the Johnson to compare / contrast with mine?

CoolROD · 08-07-2003, 10:32 PM

I have some more crude data on the Johnson: My Stuff
Don't Flame me just yet -I will get some real numbers when I get some better equipment. This was more of a fun session...a more organized experiment will follow. But, please feel free to offer advice on my testing, though. I think it does show that my water block stinks WRT high water flow...

BillA · 08-08-2003, 09:19 AM

the most significant: "Note: Eheim (1048) is Silent"
and it will also last years longer

sppeling

Since87 · 08-08-2003, 09:50 AM

The showstopper for me is that one of the likely failure modes is leakage.

This pump could be used in series with a small magdrive pump for backup, but the magdrive pump doesn't help, if the Johnson pump manages to leak too much water.

The noise definitely exceeded my tolerance threshold when I tested Koslov's pump, but then I didn't run it long enough for the brushes to wear in.

Edit: I do have to add though, that if someone understands the drawbacks and considers cheap performance to be the primary consideration, these are certainly worth consideration. The power of these pumps is impressive compared to a magdrive of comparable size and/or power consumption.

t00lb0x · 08-08-2003, 02:31 PM

Then what pump would you recommend?

Since87 · 08-08-2003, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by t00lb0x
Then what pump would you recommend?

I wouldn't want to recommend any particular pump without knowing:

The desired price range.
The rest of the water cooling components.
How much emphasis is placed on performance.
How much emphasis is placed on quiet.
How much emphasis is placed on reliability.

Depending on the circumstances, a Maxijet 900 might be the best choice or an Iwaki MD30-RZ might be best.

JCYC5 · 08-09-2003, 12:20 AM

So this pump is no longer as recommended?

t00lb0x · 08-09-2003, 12:22 AM

Don't you feel good about it, now that you can't get it

.

JCYC5 · 08-09-2003, 12:31 AM

Actually, I can. Tantousha might get it for me, if I want it... but...

t00lb0x · 08-09-2003, 12:32 AM

Oh he would ship it from Canada, thats pretty nice of him.

JCYC5 · 08-10-2003, 09:03 AM

So I don't really get how the cap is used...

Do you solder it on?

Since87 · 08-10-2003, 10:12 AM

The cap is connected in parallel with the pump, and should be soldered on.

07-30-2003, 09:50 PM	#201
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	It actually has a small whir. If rubber mounted, it should be almost unnoticeable. Also, the whir might go away, once the brushes have some wear on them, maybe. edit: I'll post the rubber grommet specs, once I get them. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101 Last edited by bigben2k; 07-30-2003 at 09:58 PM.

07-31-2003, 10:28 AM	#204
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	The brushes don't care about the mounting pos. , but the thrust surfaces of the armature and possibly the impeller might... What is the verdict -is it a mag drive? If it is direct drive then there is no thrust surface for the impeller -just the armature. __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None. Last edited by CoolROD; 08-07-2003 at 11:03 PM.

07-31-2003, 10:31 AM	#205
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	The pump must be mounted either horizontally, or with the head down (aka motor up). (as per the manual) It's a direct drive all right. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-31-2003, 12:01 PM	#206
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	Just got my Johnson C030P5-1 ! Man this thing is small. Surplus Center get's an A+ for packaging. They even repacked the pump with shipping paper inside it's original box. The instructions mention a bracket -Did you get one? __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

07-31-2003, 01:20 PM	#208
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	I can fab. something -but pics are always nice! Thanks. __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

07-31-2003, 03:08 AM	#202
sevisehda Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: NY Posts: 234	The first few days my pump was loud, I wondered if it was even worth using. It gradually got quieter over about a week. There is a small buzz but thats because my mounting is slightly off. Compared to the 3 fans in the system its nearly silent.

07-31-2003, 10:21 AM	#203
frobnitz Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: US Posts: 4	Interesting. Is there a particular orientation of the pump that is required so the brushes will "set"? When you talk about the mount being slightly off, does that mean it has to be in a certain atititude for maximum quietness? Thanks, Frob

07-31-2003, 12:59 PM	#207
trit187 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: shanghai, china Posts: 200	i did, it was basically an open ended circle with flattened ends and screw holes (for mounting), fairly simple, should be able to pick up something similiar at a hardware store if you need to, I'll post a pic if you want

07-31-2003, 02:34 PM	#210
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	I see...Thank You! But I still feel cheated. __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

07-31-2003, 03:47 PM	#211
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	That's it all right. Rubber grommet dimensions: 9/16" OD by 1/4" ID. Fits perfectly, and allows using a 1/4" screw to secure it. Hillman p/n 881253, available at Lowe's. Are you sure it wasn't in the box? The first pump came to me shipped in aJohnson box. The second came in a much larger box, with lots of paper, but no small Johnson box. The bracket was still there. Maybe you ought to e-mail them.:shrug: __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-31-2003, 04:19 PM	#212
sevisehda Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: NY Posts: 234	I used the same spec gromets that ben mentioned. The pump is balanced in the bracket, so if you were to set it on a table it wouldn't tip to one side. The problem with my mount is the bolt to tighten the bracket touches 1 of the bolts that connects it to the case. This somewhat negate the dampening effect. It will take 10minuts to change but lately I haven't had the time, plus my comps been going about 11 days without a restart and I want to see how long she can go.

07-31-2003, 05:12 PM	#213
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Strange. I didn't tighten the bracket very much, and I still have a 1/4" clearance. You can gain another 1/16" by pushing the grommet to the outside. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

08-05-2003, 06:30 PM	#214
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	My Johnson C030P5-1 will lift a water column 83.1/2 inches --> My Eheim 1048 will lift water 61 inches. The numbers posted here indicate maximum lift above the the water level in which the pumps were submerged. The pumps were submerged about 2.1/2" at their inlet and oriented with their outlet at the top. The Johnson will lift water well above 83.1/2 but the flow can not be maintained for any reasonable period of time. The numbers that I posted are the level at which the water receeds to and appears to stabilize. NOTE: The water level was not completely stable -It would oscillate up and down some fraction of an inch as the water column lifted and fell with some momentum. I was using 1/2" I/D hose. The Johnson flow was very energetic compared to the Eheim 1048 and I feel that the 1/2" hose is a restriction because the pump gains efficiency with increased flow. My king flow meter registered 1 GPM for the Eheim and 1.5 GPM for the Johnson. These numbers do not indicate the performance of the pump as the water coming out of the flow meter was only a small percentage of the pumps nonrestricted flow. My flow meter routes water through (4) 1/8" holes -very restrictive! I will time a measured volume through the pump(s) to try and gather enough points to generate a curve. Again, I think that I need to wait until I have some 3/4 I.D. hose to do the Johnson any justice. Does anyone have any flow numbers for the Johnson to compare / contrast with mine? __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None. Last edited by CoolROD; 08-07-2003 at 11:09 PM.

08-07-2003, 10:32 PM	#215
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	I have some more crude data on the Johnson: My Stuff Don't Flame me just yet -I will get some real numbers when I get some better equipment. This was more of a fun session...a more organized experiment will follow. But, please feel free to offer advice on my testing, though. I think it does show that my water block stinks WRT high water flow... __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-08-2003, 09:19 AM	#216
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	the most significant: "Note: Eheim (1048) is Silent" and it will also last years longer sppeling Last edited by BillA; 08-08-2003 at 10:12 AM.

08-08-2003, 09:50 AM	#217
Since87 Pro/Guru - Uber Mod Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 834	The showstopper for me is that one of the likely failure modes is leakage. This pump could be used in series with a small magdrive pump for backup, but the magdrive pump doesn't help, if the Johnson pump manages to leak too much water. The noise definitely exceeded my tolerance threshold when I tested Koslov's pump, but then I didn't run it long enough for the brushes to wear in. Edit: I do have to add though, that if someone understands the drawbacks and considers cheap performance to be the primary consideration, these are certainly worth consideration. The power of these pumps is impressive compared to a magdrive of comparable size and/or power consumption. Last edited by Since87; 08-08-2003 at 09:58 AM.

08-08-2003, 02:31 PM	#218
t00lb0x Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: In a box Posts: 221	Then what pump would you recommend? __________________ "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit"

08-09-2003, 12:20 AM	#220
JCYC5 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 102	So this pump is no longer as recommended?

08-09-2003, 12:22 AM	#221
t00lb0x Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: In a box Posts: 221	Don't you feel good about it, now that you can't get it . __________________ "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit"

08-09-2003, 12:31 AM	#222
JCYC5 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 102	Actually, I can. Tantousha might get it for me, if I want it... but...

08-09-2003, 12:32 AM	#223
t00lb0x Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: In a box Posts: 221	Oh he would ship it from Canada, thats pretty nice of him. __________________ "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit"

08-10-2003, 09:03 AM	#224
JCYC5 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 102	So I don't really get how the cap is used... Do you solder it on?

08-10-2003, 10:12 AM	#225
Since87 Pro/Guru - Uber Mod Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 834	The cap is connected in parallel with the pump, and should be soldered on.

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