some P4 goodness in the bench.

#Rotor · 06-22-2003, 01:45 PM

yeahhh BABY!!! Check it out....

and NO! it's not for you, so don't touch... just look
[JK]

hydrogen18 · 06-22-2003, 02:54 PM

/me grabs and runs! muyaahaah!

lol j/k i should get around to making a block for my p4...

#Rotor · 06-22-2003, 02:59 PM

some more HERE.

hydrogen18 · 06-22-2003, 03:00 PM

can i get the pattern for that?

hara · 06-22-2003, 04:27 PM

What size pilot holes do you make and at what rpm?

#Rotor · 06-22-2003, 05:00 PM

now here is some raw fresh blockage... all nicely squared up, sealed up, and ready for some cosmetic attention.

That is a very handy little sticker....

my pilot holes are 1/8" and the final hole diameter in this block is 3/16"

hara · 06-22-2003, 05:37 PM

Thanks! Nice work

A problem I've encountered is that the drill starts "wobbeling" when starting the hole (Using a drill press at highest (2600) rpm). Is there a remedy?

#Rotor · 06-22-2003, 06:26 PM

have the drill bit up as far as it goes, into the chuck, that will limit the amount of flex from the bit bending.... I use short-stub drill-bits, they are cheap enough to toss away when blunt, not that they are cheap-Shiat.... they seem to last as long as any other....

BrianH · 06-22-2003, 11:10 PM

I think those are for ME!

I am going to put them into a chilled system.

t00lb0x · 06-22-2003, 11:33 PM

How well does it preform?

pippin88 · 06-23-2003, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hara
Thanks! Nice work

A problem I've encountered is that the drill starts "wobbeling" when starting the hole (Using a drill press at highest (2600) rpm). Is there a remedy?

I hate it when that happens. My solution is to slightly loosen the chuck and then tighten up on a different one of the 3 holes. Usually sorts it out.

#Rotor · 06-23-2003, 06:28 AM

[jk] My block seem to have the amazing ability to pro-create.... absolutely stunning, I wake up this morning and look....

What shall I feed it..... [/jk]

performance....

this is "the making of" Brain will be able to tell us, hopefully by mid next week... I do not have any P4's.

BrianH · 06-23-2003, 08:32 AM

Won't be able to install until the end of next week. I have some work to do before month end.

Basically, I will be installing them into this chilled system. It is not chiller right now because I had condensation problems on the back of the motherboard. So far

Chiller ......... Version 1
Res ............. Version 3
Blocks ......... Getting Version 2
Tubing ......... Version 2
Chiller Fan ... Will install Version 2 soon

So, I have done quite a bit of experimenting on this design. Oh, and the cheapest part was the dehumidier which I got from sears at $90Cad!

Oh, #rotor, you give me too much credit by calling me brain

, it should be Brian

trit187 · 06-24-2003, 02:19 AM

fairly new to the whole water cooling stuff, how well would you expect this to preform campared to like a maze 3 or other comercial block?
it looks great, how think did you leave the bp?

msv · 06-24-2003, 03:35 AM

It´s a very good performer.
Steve Owens made one. Test by Bill Adams at:
http://www.overclockers.com/articles690/

The "making of" at:
http://www.overclockers.com/tips997/

regards
Mikael S.

msv · 06-24-2003, 03:50 AM

or, rather:
Many people has made #rotor-style WB:s, but the very one by Steve Owens has been tested by Bill Adams.
It´s high performance/simplicity ratio makes it very attractive.
Question to #rotor:
Can one expect any performance boost with the holes drilled in a hexagonal pattern instead of the traditional square pattern?
Would it even further increase the turbulence?
regards
Mikael S.

#Rotor · 06-24-2003, 04:13 AM

doing it in a 120º pattern gets you a much thinner, triangular shaped pin, So much so that the liquid to copper ratio of the insides of the block is too much out of proportion, I.E.. too much water, and not enough copper. Not that it won't work well, mind you.

as for how I would compare to those others, I like to think of it as how they would compare to me... I've been doing this blockmaking much longer then most. The only thing I refused to do, was to commercialize my work. My work is custom, per order, one on one, the way to sould be, think of it as getting Intel to make you a custom designed CPU, just for you....

Bill tested a block made in similar fashion to mine. At best, his results illustrated what potential lies beneath the concept of superior turbulence in the flow-path. I have had a lot more experience making blocks in this fashion, But for Steve to do so well on it with his first try at it, truly remarkable.

ChrioN · 06-24-2003, 04:51 AM

Ahhhh darn I love that coppercolor when you've just drilled it...It's so....pink?

trit187 · 06-24-2003, 12:17 PM

have you ever tested one with the inlet at the center and two exits?
could that increase proformace?

#Rotor · 06-24-2003, 05:11 PM

I have yes, honestly I did not have expensive enough equipment to be able to measure if it was doing a better job, or not... Theoretically I was stuck with an" eye of the storm" effect, right over the core. the pin grid array works best with directional flow across the grid, from the one side, right through to the other. The gradient of temperature change as the water passes through, at the speeds it does, would arguably be as flat as Lake-X on a windless hot summers sunset.

Khledar · 06-24-2003, 06:11 PM

Yeah, gotta love the color of "untouched" copper, I have a "oops, oh shit" block I was drilling a few months ago, after the "oops" I left it in my "shop" (aka garage) and it's still that nice color on the inside, I guess being dry with no finger oils etc really helps.

Also, this beatifulness inspired me, and I tried making a block similar in the #rotor style

I ran into a couple problems - but have come out "successful" (I think - I've got no money for host barbs right now so... ). First attempt, due to the bench table flexing I had some inacurate depths set and - oh shit that's not light shining through is it?

But all is good, after drilling 60 odd holes, I was starting to get better, the first line was quite crooked, the second OK, and as I got to the 4th or 5th lines I was improving - practice makes perfect eh? But the second pass with the full size bit, just.... too deep

.

So round 2 - smaller pilot holes, new pin layout, less drill bit angle on the deep holes,and I tried to accomodate my inacurate equipment. I think I got the baseplate around 1/16". I was using 1/4" Copper - then "shallower" holes are 1/8" deep the others were supposed to be 3/16 deep - it looks they ended up about that with maybe less than 1/16" BP in a few cases.

Now for some pics.
Don't go getting your hopes up or anything I don't have great camera abilities, and my workmanship isn't nearly as good as #rotor's.

Pic #1:
This was the

block - right before I drilled through it - the next row to be done was the one that I went through on. Notice the row at the back is drilled, but the drill size was apparently too large (all the hole quite connected already!). So I changed bit sizes and moved to the bottom to "start again". I didn't take any pics of going through the block, I'm too embarrased - but I assure you they're quite small holes (direct die baby

).
http://members.shaw.ca/dave.sparrow/...kp4_2_005b.jpg

Pic #2:
This is the second block - pilot holes all drilled, the paper template ready to come off, just gotta mark the mobo hole placement on the copper (not ready to drill them yet, still thinking about mounting). You can see I changed layout a bit (less holes!)
http://members.shaw.ca/dave.sparrow/...ckp4_2_006.jpg

Pic #3:
After the proper size holes were drilled. You can see here where there were some mis-alignment problems most obviously a couple of the rows are a bit "off (their) center" I'll leave it to you to guess which axis I moved this peice along while I had it clamped.
http://members.shaw.ca/dave.sparrow/...ckp4_2_007.jpg

Pic #4:
A little hard to see, but just the final dremelling.
http://members.shaw.ca/dave.sparrow/...ckp4_2_009.jpg

I'm not trying to steal the thread or anything, I just didn't think this block had enough "me" in it to post my own thread. (And liek I said - it was directly inspired by this so...)

Any comments are welcome, but if you've got lengthy advice or something for me, maybe you oughtta keep it PM to avoid cluttering this thread

LiquidRulez · 06-24-2003, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hara
Thanks! Nice work

A problem I've encountered is that the drill starts "wobbeling" when starting the hole (Using a drill press at highest (2600) rpm). Is there a remedy?

Drill a pilot with a center drill first , then you wont have this problem anynore. Or if you have a center drill that the tip is deep enough just use it to drill each hole.

#Rotor · 06-25-2003, 08:41 PM

a little update:

t00lb0x · 06-25-2003, 08:42 PM

For the NB right? Looking good.

#Rotor · 06-25-2003, 08:46 PM

yip... but his GPU gets a twin, still in the worx... only difference would be some elbows on the barbs....

something like this....

06-22-2003, 04:27 PM	#5
hara Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Malta, Mediterranean Posts: 662	What size pilot holes do you make and at what rpm? __________________ - Every great HD crash day is the day before back-up day. - My Past System - "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven." - Milton, Paradise Lost. - FMZ

06-22-2003, 05:00 PM	#6
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	now here is some raw fresh blockage... all nicely squared up, sealed up, and ready for some cosmetic attention. That is a very handy little sticker.... my pilot holes are 1/8" and the final hole diameter in this block is 3/16" __________________ There is no Spoon....

06-22-2003, 05:37 PM	#7
hara Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Malta, Mediterranean Posts: 662	Thanks! Nice work A problem I've encountered is that the drill starts "wobbeling" when starting the hole (Using a drill press at highest (2600) rpm). Is there a remedy? __________________ - Every great HD crash day is the day before back-up day. - My Past System - "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven." - Milton, Paradise Lost. - FMZ

06-22-2003, 06:26 PM	#8
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	have the drill bit up as far as it goes, into the chuck, that will limit the amount of flex from the bit bending.... I use short-stub drill-bits, they are cheap enough to toss away when blunt, not that they are cheap-Shiat.... they seem to last as long as any other.... __________________ There is no Spoon....

06-22-2003, 11:33 PM	#10
t00lb0x Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: In a box Posts: 221	How well does it preform? __________________ "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit"

06-22-2003, 01:45 PM	#1
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	some P4 goodness in the bench. yeahhh BABY!!! Check it out.... and NO! it's not for you, so don't touch... just look [JK] __________________ There is no Spoon....

06-22-2003, 02:54 PM	#2
hydrogen18 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 248	/me grabs and runs! muyaahaah! lol j/k i should get around to making a block for my p4...

06-22-2003, 02:59 PM	#3
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	some more HERE. __________________ There is no Spoon....

06-22-2003, 03:00 PM	#4
hydrogen18 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 248	can i get the pattern for that?

06-22-2003, 11:10 PM	#9
BrianH Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ottawa, Ont, Canada Posts: 115	I think those are for ME! I am going to put them into a chilled system.

06-23-2003, 06:28 AM	#12
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	[jk] My block seem to have the amazing ability to pro-create.... absolutely stunning, I wake up this morning and look.... What shall I feed it..... [/jk] performance.... this is "the making of" Brain will be able to tell us, hopefully by mid next week... I do not have any P4's. __________________ There is no Spoon....

06-23-2003, 08:32 AM	#13
BrianH Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ottawa, Ont, Canada Posts: 115	Won't be able to install until the end of next week. I have some work to do before month end. Basically, I will be installing them into this chilled system. It is not chiller right now because I had condensation problems on the back of the motherboard. So far Chiller ......... Version 1 Res ............. Version 3 Blocks ......... Getting Version 2 Tubing ......... Version 2 Chiller Fan ... Will install Version 2 soon So, I have done quite a bit of experimenting on this design. Oh, and the cheapest part was the dehumidier which I got from sears at $90Cad! Oh, #rotor, you give me too much credit by calling me brain , it should be Brian

06-24-2003, 02:19 AM	#14
trit187 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: shanghai, china Posts: 200	fairly new to the whole water cooling stuff, how well would you expect this to preform campared to like a maze 3 or other comercial block? it looks great, how think did you leave the bp?

06-24-2003, 03:35 AM	#15
msv Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 336	It´s a very good performer. Steve Owens made one. Test by Bill Adams at: http://www.overclockers.com/articles690/ The "making of" at: http://www.overclockers.com/tips997/ regards Mikael S.

06-24-2003, 03:50 AM	#16
msv Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 336	or, rather: Many people has made #rotor-style WB:s, but the very one by Steve Owens has been tested by Bill Adams. It´s high performance/simplicity ratio makes it very attractive. Question to #rotor: Can one expect any performance boost with the holes drilled in a hexagonal pattern instead of the traditional square pattern? Would it even further increase the turbulence? regards Mikael S.

06-24-2003, 04:13 AM	#17
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	doing it in a 120º pattern gets you a much thinner, triangular shaped pin, So much so that the liquid to copper ratio of the insides of the block is too much out of proportion, I.E.. too much water, and not enough copper. Not that it won't work well, mind you. as for how I would compare to those others, I like to think of it as how they would compare to me... I've been doing this blockmaking much longer then most. The only thing I refused to do, was to commercialize my work. My work is custom, per order, one on one, the way to sould be, think of it as getting Intel to make you a custom designed CPU, just for you.... Bill tested a block made in similar fashion to mine. At best, his results illustrated what potential lies beneath the concept of superior turbulence in the flow-path. I have had a lot more experience making blocks in this fashion, But for Steve to do so well on it with his first try at it, truly remarkable. __________________ There is no Spoon....

06-24-2003, 04:51 AM	#18
ChrioN Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 318	Ahhhh darn I love that coppercolor when you've just drilled it...It's so....pink?

06-24-2003, 12:17 PM	#19
trit187 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: shanghai, china Posts: 200	have you ever tested one with the inlet at the center and two exits? could that increase proformace?

06-24-2003, 05:11 PM	#20
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	I have yes, honestly I did not have expensive enough equipment to be able to measure if it was doing a better job, or not... Theoretically I was stuck with an" eye of the storm" effect, right over the core. the pin grid array works best with directional flow across the grid, from the one side, right through to the other. The gradient of temperature change as the water passes through, at the speeds it does, would arguably be as flat as Lake-X on a windless hot summers sunset. __________________ There is no Spoon....

06-24-2003, 06:11 PM	#21
Khledar Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North Vancouver BC Posts: 234	Yeah, gotta love the color of "untouched" copper, I have a "oops, oh shit" block I was drilling a few months ago, after the "oops" I left it in my "shop" (aka garage) and it's still that nice color on the inside, I guess being dry with no finger oils etc really helps. Also, this beatifulness inspired me, and I tried making a block similar in the #rotor style I ran into a couple problems - but have come out "successful" (I think - I've got no money for host barbs right now so... ). First attempt, due to the bench table flexing I had some inacurate depths set and - oh shit that's not light shining through is it? But all is good, after drilling 60 odd holes, I was starting to get better, the first line was quite crooked, the second OK, and as I got to the 4th or 5th lines I was improving - practice makes perfect eh? But the second pass with the full size bit, just.... too deep . So round 2 - smaller pilot holes, new pin layout, less drill bit angle on the deep holes,and I tried to accomodate my inacurate equipment. I think I got the baseplate around 1/16". I was using 1/4" Copper - then "shallower" holes are 1/8" deep the others were supposed to be 3/16 deep - it looks they ended up about that with maybe less than 1/16" BP in a few cases. Now for some pics. Don't go getting your hopes up or anything I don't have great camera abilities, and my workmanship isn't nearly as good as #rotor's. Pic #1: This was the block - right before I drilled through it - the next row to be done was the one that I went through on. Notice the row at the back is drilled, but the drill size was apparently too large (all the hole quite connected already!). So I changed bit sizes and moved to the bottom to "start again". I didn't take any pics of going through the block, I'm too embarrased - but I assure you they're quite small holes (direct die baby ). http://members.shaw.ca/dave.sparrow/...kp4_2_005b.jpg Pic #2: This is the second block - pilot holes all drilled, the paper template ready to come off, just gotta mark the mobo hole placement on the copper (not ready to drill them yet, still thinking about mounting). You can see I changed layout a bit (less holes!) http://members.shaw.ca/dave.sparrow/...ckp4_2_006.jpg Pic #3: After the proper size holes were drilled. You can see here where there were some mis-alignment problems most obviously a couple of the rows are a bit "off (their) center" I'll leave it to you to guess which axis I moved this peice along while I had it clamped. http://members.shaw.ca/dave.sparrow/...ckp4_2_007.jpg Pic #4: A little hard to see, but just the final dremelling. http://members.shaw.ca/dave.sparrow/...ckp4_2_009.jpg I'm not trying to steal the thread or anything, I just didn't think this block had enough "me" in it to post my own thread. (And liek I said - it was directly inspired by this so...) Any comments are welcome, but if you've got lengthy advice or something for me, maybe you oughtta keep it PM to avoid cluttering this thread __________________ "mooooo" said the cow. ERTW - UBC P4 2.4B @3.01Ghz 167FSB :: Abit IC7 :: 2x256MB HyperX PC3700 :: ASUS 9600XT :: WD Raptor 2x36GB RAID0

06-25-2003, 08:41 PM	#23
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	a little update: __________________ There is no Spoon....

06-25-2003, 08:42 PM	#24
t00lb0x Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: In a box Posts: 221	For the NB right? Looking good. __________________ "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit"

06-25-2003, 08:46 PM	#25
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	yip... but his GPU gets a twin, still in the worx... only difference would be some elbows on the barbs.... something like this.... __________________ There is no Spoon.... Last edited by #Rotor; 06-25-2003 at 08:55 PM.

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