New To watercooling!! what a disaster! Help!!

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 11:29 AM

Hey everyone, Im new to this forum and also new to watercooling. I recently read ALOT of articles on ProCooling.com and this one Here , caught my eye. I bought all of the items he mentioned in the budget watercooling setup. I have installed it on my xp 1600+ (not overclocked) and my temperature readings are really bad!! Normally 54 degrees for idle?!? thats what i was getting with aircooling!!

, Can someone please help on this? Also, i have a big heater core, not sure from what, with (1) 120mm Delta and (2) 90mm fans in exhaust mode, is there something i didnt hook up correctly? I tried just bypassing the heater core, and go directly from the res. to the processor, and the temps were the same. If anyone can give me some advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

WireX · 07-03-2002, 11:37 AM

Slow down.
First, tell us every part of your system, and in what order it is hooked up.
Then, make sure your block is mounted properly.
Basically, give us a rundown of your system, and anything special you did.

-WireX

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 11:46 AM

ok, my sys:

Athlon XP 1600+ (stock, for now)
512 MB PC-2100 DDR (1 chip)
Biostar M7VIB (newest bios)
Maxtor UDMA 60 GB HD
Geforce TI 4600 64 MB DDR video
Lite-On 16X DVD
Acer 56X CDrom
Lite-ON 48X CDRW
Promise Ultra100 TX2 controller card
Floppy
thats about most of it, except for NIC.

I made sure that the block is tight up against the cpu, it doesnt look crooked or moved around at all. I originally set it up like this:

A. From the pump to the radiators input, then ouput to waterblock, then out from there to the res.

but a friend told me to do it like this:

B. From the pump to the waterblock, out from there to the input to the rad. and output from the rad. to the res.

and that helped by 5 degrees Farenheit, but nothing spectacular.

bigben2k · 07-03-2002, 11:51 AM

Did you use anything between the block and CPU?

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 11:51 AM

yeah, i put a thin layer of Artic Silver 2

WireX · 07-03-2002, 11:51 AM

how about the water cooling parts?
Btw, your friend is right, that is the most common way to do the cooling loop, because you want higher gph through the block, and lower through the rad.

I am also guessing that it is 54 degree's idle, in celcius.
What kind of thermal paste are you using, [EDIT]if it is arctic silver 2, you might have to let it settle by letting it run idle for a few hours, [/EDIT: info changed between AS3's details, to AS2's] but I am seriously thinking either a bad block (can't move the heat fast enough) or bad mounting, is too blame.

but I need to know

block
rad/core
tubing size
res
and the fans that are directly blowing/pulling on the rad/core

ambient · 07-03-2002, 11:55 AM

what is the ambient temp in the room with the computer?

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 11:56 AM

ok, i followed the article that UnaClocker wrote, right here . That is the block. Its connected to a Rio 180 (again from his article), all connected with 3/8" id clear tubing. The heater core was given to my by a friend out of a truck of some sorts, its pretty big, not small at all, and i put the 3 fans on it in exhaust mode. It runs about 54 degrees celcius in idle/ 129F.

and the res. is just a small bucket, lol for now maybe a quart of water. The ambient temp in the room is about 76F.

bigben2k · 07-03-2002, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Acroam
ok, i followed the article that UnaClocker wrote, right here . That is the block. Its connected to a Rio 180 (again from his article), all connected with 3/8" id clear tubing. The heater core was given to my by a friend out of a truck of some sorts, its pretty big, not small at all, and i put the 3 fans on it in exhaust mode. It runs about 54 degrees celcius in idle/ 129F. and the res. is just a small bucket, lol for now maybe a quart of water. The ambient temp in the room is about 76F.

Which part of Una's article did you follow?

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 12:04 PM

the first water cooled one, (the cheaper of the 2)

bigben2k · 07-03-2002, 12:06 PM

Did you lap the block?

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 12:11 PM

no i didnt lap it, to be honest, i dont know how to, lol

WireX · 07-03-2002, 12:19 PM

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Ha...uides/lapping/

their is a general one, you can find a tonne of them by searching lapping guides in any search engine

I still think it needs to be remounted.
-WireX

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 12:22 PM

ok, so should i take it off completely and put it back on? or should i try to lap it?

WireX · 07-03-2002, 12:26 PM

I would take it off, lap it to 600 or 100 grit (their are big debates about what is better, so it is up to you, but generally, higher is better) then remount it, and make sure it is quite secure and has a good amount of pressure (Off the top of my head, the amd's need 50 psi, but I have a feeling that, that is too high, so please don't quote or flame me).

also, make sure you are getting a good flow rate (it should be moving at a good speed when it makes it back to your bucket)... the heater core may be a bit constricting for that pump, but I have no experience with rio's.

-WireX

bigben2k · 07-03-2002, 12:29 PM

-lap to 600 or 800, not 1000. (I'm in the debate now!)
-use AS
-remount

(psi is actually around 30, I think)

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 12:31 PM

ok, i will try to lap it, also the flow from the heater core to the res. isnt that impressive, just flowing lightly, like u turned on a faucet just a little to get a sure slow stream of water, its not powerfully rushing at all. but i will take it off, and re-install it one more time to be sure, then i will try the lapping. Also, how do i tell what pressure i am tightening it to?? I just turned it until it was firm, and didnt really want to turn that easily. (nylon screw on hold down)

WireX · 07-03-2002, 12:36 PM

Quote:

-lap to 600 or 800, not 1000. (I'm in the debate now!)

oops, that was my bad, I have been reading the mirror finish ones this morning, I did mean to say 600-800.

Quote:

little to get a sure slow stream of water, its not powerfully rushing at all

It doesn't have to be really moving, but in my personal experience, the returning water is fast enough to hit the other side of my res and makes a fair bit of noise. Mind you, it is the crappy CPUFX/OCH one, so it doesn't really have to move that far... though, this does sound a bit weak, make sure the water isn't traveling any farther than nessisary, and it could be the heater core. Mind you, take it one step at a time, and lap and remount the block, then we will see if that made a difference. As for presure, just do it untill it is firm enough that you cna't shift the block in any direction, but be carefull, the core is an easy thing to break

edit: here is anouther lapping guide, but this person uses up to 1500 grit, for a mirrior finish
http://www.blargoc.co.uk/guides/lapping/index.shtml

-WireX

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 12:38 PM

ok, im going to remount now, i will get back on, and post the results, then if no change, off to lapping! (wish me luck, lol). It doesnt look that hard.

ambient · 07-03-2002, 12:42 PM

are you sure you got all the air out of the system? Where is the Res in the system? Have you tried running in a closed loop system with a T? A closed loop should give you better GPH/LPH.

redleader · 07-03-2002, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Btw, your friend is right, that is the most common way to do the cooling loop, because you want higher gph through the block, and lower through the rad.

First flow is the same through the loop. You cannot vary flow like that.

Second, you do not want lower flow in the radiator. Higher is better.

bigben2k · 07-03-2002, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redleader
Second, you do not want lower flow in the radiator. Higher is better.

Yup... now I have to go back to each of my posts and correct myself where I said it was... it'll take days!

NoSoupForYou · 07-03-2002, 01:44 PM

Hmm, 54C with that setup, and you are surprised?

That's a 120gph pump going through 3/8" tubing, with an aluminum block and a heater core. I'm surprised water is making it through at all

Seriously though...

First, what is your water temperature? If your water temp is cool, then you can eliminate your radiator and fan as the problem sources.

If the water is cool, then it's the block and/or pump. Exceptionally low flow rates are going to have an impact on heat transfer from the block to the water. And since this is an aluminum block, it will need all the help it can get.

How long is your tubing? Long lengths of 3/8" tubing will add quite a bit of flow restriction. Any tee's or 90 degree elbows? If so, get rid of them - that little pump needs all the help it can get

Sorry to say, but I would not expect that setup to perform any better than a mid-to-high end air cooling setup.

RickCain · 07-03-2002, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Acroam
Geforce TI 4600 64 MB DDR video

Didn't know they made a 64Mb version. Doh!

Anyways..... NoSoupForYou is right... From the sounds of this equipment you might not get any better results by lapping the block. IMHO lapping will not help you rather it might hurt you.

I would suggest replacing the block and raditor to a good one and see what happens. Also moving to a 1/2" system to help with the low GPH pump.

I live by the motto : You get what you pay for .

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 02:18 PM

I made sure that the block was secure, I am going to look into another form of cooling, Im just going to sell this whole setup for like 50.00, and invest in peltiers or something!! I dont think water cooling is for me. If anyone is interested in this setup, i will sell it for 50.00 shipped. I paid over 75.00 and its a day old. If anyone is interested or has some ideas please reply.

Quote:

Didn't know they made a 64Mb version. Doh!

yeah, lol, my mistake its 128 MB, if it was 64 MB, it would have been ALOT cheaper!

07-03-2002, 11:29 AM	#1
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	New To watercooling!! what a disaster! Help!! Hey everyone, Im new to this forum and also new to watercooling. I recently read ALOT of articles on ProCooling.com and this one Here , caught my eye. I bought all of the items he mentioned in the budget watercooling setup. I have installed it on my xp 1600+ (not overclocked) and my temperature readings are really bad!! Normally 54 degrees for idle?!? thats what i was getting with aircooling!!, Can someone please help on this? Also, i have a big heater core, not sure from what, with (1) 120mm Delta and (2) 90mm fans in exhaust mode, is there something i didnt hook up correctly? I tried just bypassing the heater core, and go directly from the res. to the processor, and the temps were the same. If anyone can give me some advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

07-03-2002, 11:37 AM	#2
WireX Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Posts: 68	Slow down. First, tell us every part of your system, and in what order it is hooked up. Then, make sure your block is mounted properly. Basically, give us a rundown of your system, and anything special you did. -WireX __________________ I am a Canadian Cooler and proud of it If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving isn't for you - Me The world is run by the internet The internet is run by computers Nerds run those computers I'm one of those nerds

07-03-2002, 11:51 AM	#4
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Did you use anything between the block and CPU? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-03-2002, 11:51 AM	#6
WireX Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Posts: 68	how about the water cooling parts? Btw, your friend is right, that is the most common way to do the cooling loop, because you want higher gph through the block, and lower through the rad. I am also guessing that it is 54 degree's idle, in celcius. What kind of thermal paste are you using, [EDIT]if it is arctic silver 2, you might have to let it settle by letting it run idle for a few hours, [/EDIT: info changed between AS3's details, to AS2's] but I am seriously thinking either a bad block (can't move the heat fast enough) or bad mounting, is too blame. but I need to know block rad/core tubing size res and the fans that are directly blowing/pulling on the rad/core __________________ I am a Canadian Cooler and proud of it If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving isn't for you - Me The world is run by the internet The internet is run by computers Nerds run those computers I'm one of those nerds

07-03-2002, 11:55 AM	#7
ambient Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 312	what is the ambient temp in the room with the computer? __________________ water cooled 1.4 tbird @ 1580 143x11 vcore 1.88 vio 3.55

07-03-2002, 11:46 AM	#3
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	ok, my sys: Athlon XP 1600+ (stock, for now) 512 MB PC-2100 DDR (1 chip) Biostar M7VIB (newest bios) Maxtor UDMA 60 GB HD Geforce TI 4600 64 MB DDR video Lite-On 16X DVD Acer 56X CDrom Lite-ON 48X CDRW Promise Ultra100 TX2 controller card Floppy thats about most of it, except for NIC. I made sure that the block is tight up against the cpu, it doesnt look crooked or moved around at all. I originally set it up like this: A. From the pump to the radiators input, then ouput to waterblock, then out from there to the res. but a friend told me to do it like this: B. From the pump to the waterblock, out from there to the input to the rad. and output from the rad. to the res. and that helped by 5 degrees Farenheit, but nothing spectacular.

07-03-2002, 11:56 AM	#8
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	ok, i followed the article that UnaClocker wrote, right here . That is the block. Its connected to a Rio 180 (again from his article), all connected with 3/8" id clear tubing. The heater core was given to my by a friend out of a truck of some sorts, its pretty big, not small at all, and i put the 3 fans on it in exhaust mode. It runs about 54 degrees celcius in idle/ 129F. and the res. is just a small bucket, lol for now maybe a quart of water. The ambient temp in the room is about 76F.

07-03-2002, 12:04 PM	#10
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	the first water cooled one, (the cheaper of the 2)

07-03-2002, 12:06 PM	#11
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Did you lap the block? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-03-2002, 12:11 PM	#12
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	no i didnt lap it, to be honest, i dont know how to, lol

07-03-2002, 12:19 PM	#13
WireX Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Posts: 68	http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Ha...uides/lapping/ their is a general one, you can find a tonne of them by searching lapping guides in any search engine I still think it needs to be remounted. -WireX __________________ I am a Canadian Cooler and proud of it If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving isn't for you - Me The world is run by the internet The internet is run by computers Nerds run those computers I'm one of those nerds

07-03-2002, 12:22 PM	#14
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	ok, so should i take it off completely and put it back on? or should i try to lap it?

07-03-2002, 12:26 PM	#15
WireX Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Posts: 68	I would take it off, lap it to 600 or 100 grit (their are big debates about what is better, so it is up to you, but generally, higher is better) then remount it, and make sure it is quite secure and has a good amount of pressure (Off the top of my head, the amd's need 50 psi, but I have a feeling that, that is too high, so please don't quote or flame me). also, make sure you are getting a good flow rate (it should be moving at a good speed when it makes it back to your bucket)... the heater core may be a bit constricting for that pump, but I have no experience with rio's. -WireX __________________ I am a Canadian Cooler and proud of it If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving isn't for you - Me The world is run by the internet The internet is run by computers Nerds run those computers I'm one of those nerds

07-03-2002, 12:29 PM	#16
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	-lap to 600 or 800, not 1000. (I'm in the debate now!) -use AS -remount (psi is actually around 30, I think) __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-03-2002, 12:31 PM	#17
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	ok, i will try to lap it, also the flow from the heater core to the res. isnt that impressive, just flowing lightly, like u turned on a faucet just a little to get a sure slow stream of water, its not powerfully rushing at all. but i will take it off, and re-install it one more time to be sure, then i will try the lapping. Also, how do i tell what pressure i am tightening it to?? I just turned it until it was firm, and didnt really want to turn that easily. (nylon screw on hold down)

07-03-2002, 12:38 PM	#19
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	ok, im going to remount now, i will get back on, and post the results, then if no change, off to lapping! (wish me luck, lol). It doesnt look that hard.

07-03-2002, 12:42 PM	#20
ambient Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 312	are you sure you got all the air out of the system? Where is the Res in the system? Have you tried running in a closed loop system with a T? A closed loop should give you better GPH/LPH. __________________ water cooled 1.4 tbird @ 1580 143x11 vcore 1.88 vio 3.55

07-03-2002, 01:44 PM	#23
NoSoupForYou Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NJ Posts: 11	Hmm, 54C with that setup, and you are surprised? That's a 120gph pump going through 3/8" tubing, with an aluminum block and a heater core. I'm surprised water is making it through at all Seriously though... First, what is your water temperature? If your water temp is cool, then you can eliminate your radiator and fan as the problem sources. If the water is cool, then it's the block and/or pump. Exceptionally low flow rates are going to have an impact on heat transfer from the block to the water. And since this is an aluminum block, it will need all the help it can get. How long is your tubing? Long lengths of 3/8" tubing will add quite a bit of flow restriction. Any tee's or 90 degree elbows? If so, get rid of them - that little pump needs all the help it can get Sorry to say, but I would not expect that setup to perform any better than a mid-to-high end air cooling setup.

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