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Water Block Design / Construction Building your own block? Need info on designing one? Heres where to do it

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Unread 02-04-2003, 11:00 AM   #26
LiquidRulez
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Quote:
Originally posted by dax
LiquidRulez:
Actualy I don't want CNC at the moment, I want to mess around with the mill myself...
You will when you get one and find the limited designs you can cut with a manual mill.While some people in here have made some amazing things with manual machines, they will tell you that there are quite a few limits to manual machining.
Constant setup changes is a PITA for one....with CNC you just clamp your peice down , touch off on your part and start ur up(basically)....unless you have more cutting to do on the other side that is!
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Unread 02-04-2003, 11:33 AM   #27
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LiquidRulez: well yea but I want to have some manual experience first, and some fun!
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Unread 02-04-2003, 11:46 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by dax
LiquidRulez: well yea but I want to have some manual experience first, and some fun!
Manual experience is good. You will be able to do alot with the hand wheels with a lot of practice. Tooling is definatly an issue. I dropped about $300 just for the stuff to do a basic water block. So on top of the $500 for the mini mill plan on another $300+ for tooling. A good collet set, good vice, and some good endmills and drill bits. Fly cutter is nice aswell but not at all needed. You will still have to hand lap the blocks anyway but the fly cutter can take quite a few steps off.

I can't find jack on the Rung Fu. :shrug: Sounds like a good mill though.
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Unread 02-04-2003, 02:42 PM   #29
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I'm aware of the high tooling costs Anyhow I still have ALOT of stuff to sell on ebay, so I guess I'll have a few $100 after I sold all that stuff. I guess my parents could help me with the rest of the money for my birthday... Still have to find a mill though, still no idea where to find them around here

Ooh just had one of those briliant brainfarts! Going to try to find out which mill Morphling uses, he's in europe isn't he?

Eek he seems to have an expensive EMCO mill ($2000), not within my budget... although it looks nice

Last edited by dax; 02-04-2003 at 02:47 PM.
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Unread 02-04-2003, 02:54 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by jaydee116


I can't find jack on the Rung Fu. :shrug: Sounds like a good mill though.
I guess it helps to spell it correctly when trying to search. Rong Fu.

Found a lot of stuff. They look pretty good for the price! I am going to tear mine down tonight. I think I am going to Mod it! I have a few off the wall ideas how to beef up the colum and change out the crappy drive screws. Another project to add to the never ending list.
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Unread 02-04-2003, 03:11 PM   #31
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Still have to check Rong Fu... but oh damn those sherlines look soooo sexy... http://www.sherline.com/images/5400apkg.jpg but it also looks like it's going to fall down really soon heh... is the base heavy enough to keep the thing upright? (i guess you need to bolt it down anyhow)

Oh yea I don't have to much space either... so maybe a small (light?) mill like the sherline would fit around here (atleast you can move it, unlike the heavier ones...). Oh yea how does it actualy "perform"? How does it cut alu & cu (as those are the metals i'll use the most)?

http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/2231.cfm that rong fu looks nice... not too expensive either...
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Unread 02-04-2003, 04:23 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by dax
Still have to check Rong Fu... but oh damn those sherlines look soooo sexy... http://www.sherline.com/images/5400apkg.jpg but it also looks like it's going to fall down really soon heh... is the base heavy enough to keep the thing upright? (i guess you need to bolt it down anyhow)

Oh yea I don't have to much space either... so maybe a small (light?) mill like the sherline would fit around here (atleast you can move it, unlike the heavier ones...). Oh yea how does it actualy "perform"? How does it cut alu & cu (as those are the metals i'll use the most)?

http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/2231.cfm that rong fu looks nice... not too expensive either...
Rong fu's are not cheap. I paid $2600 for mine, but it can tap too.
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Unread 02-04-2003, 04:38 PM   #33
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Damn, that Rong Fu looks gooood!!! Can anybody tell how much a unit like that can weigh?
Damn, I want it!!!!
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Unread 02-04-2003, 05:25 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by dax
I'm aware of the high tooling costs Anyhow I still have ALOT of stuff to sell on ebay, so I guess I'll have a few $100 after I sold all that stuff. I guess my parents could help me with the rest of the money for my birthday... Still have to find a mill though, still no idea where to find them around here

Ooh just had one of those briliant brainfarts! Going to try to find out which mill Morphling uses, he's in europe isn't he?

Eek he seems to have an expensive EMCO mill ($2000), not within my budget... although it looks nice
I use Emco FB2 (discontinued model)


I bought used one (very little usage) but Emco's aren't cheap I pay ~2500$ for mill with precise vise and chuck with collets.
Shopping on-line for this things outside overseas would kill you in shipping cost as the weight quickly pass 100 kg, my is around 200kg. I'm pretty sure that you can find someone in Belgium that sells used (re-newed) machines, as I find few places very quickly even in our small Slovenia.
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Unread 02-04-2003, 07:16 PM   #35
dima y
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Here is a nice one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...309972776&rd=1

for my personal needs I go back to my old high school to do some machining

I also found a guy in my class who works at a machine shop.

I understand that some people like to do it all themselves, I do too, but my current living space is not very permitting to have one of those machines. I have to find other ways of getting my stuff done.

BTW since grizzly is made in China (woot yes it true)

i would not buy one used, since it probably is not very accurate.
But then again accurate for me is 1/1000th.
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Unread 02-04-2003, 08:08 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by dax
Still have to check Rong Fu... but oh damn those sherlines look soooo sexy... http://www.sherline.com/images/5400apkg.jpg but it also looks like it's going to fall down really soon heh... is the base heavy enough to keep the thing upright? (i guess you need to bolt it down anyhow)

Oh yea I don't have to much space either... so maybe a small (light?) mill like the sherline would fit around here (atleast you can move it, unlike the heavier ones...). Oh yea how does it actualy "perform"? How does it cut alu & cu (as those are the metals i'll use the most)?

http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/2231.cfm that rong fu looks nice... not too expensive either...
That Rong Fu is $875+shipping+tooling. it will be well over $1,000. My little sherline does fine with Aluminum.
This only took a hour and a half.



Of course that was with CNC.

You can do Copper with good endmills with the Sherline. It is slow though, but if you use the hand wheels you will be going slow anyways.

Did this with the CNC:

1/2" wide and 3/8" deep. Took 45mins.

Did this one with the HAND wheels.


took about an hour.

Did this one with the hand wheels also:


That one took about an hour.

The Sherline is far from useless. Not bad for a 35lb mill!
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Unread 02-04-2003, 09:26 PM   #37
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Liquidrulez, I would be interested in seeing your grizzly mill, and some info about converting it, In the future I may some day do that, or get something larger and convert that.
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Unread 02-04-2003, 09:49 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by JFettig
Liquidrulez, I would be interested in seeing your grizzly mill, and some info about converting it, In the future I may some day do that, or get something larger and convert that.
Grizzly conversion projects:
http://plsntcov.8m.com/grizzley.html
http://home.cinci.rr.com/hardball/CNC.htm
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Unread 02-04-2003, 09:52 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Puzzdre

Damn, that Rong Fu looks gooood!!! Can anybody tell how much a unit like that can weigh?
Damn, I want it!!!!
The one shown in that link is probably 400-600 pounds. I've seen some that go up to around 800 pounds. Those are the really nice ones with a dovetail Z axis and a relatively large range on the X and Y axes.
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Unread 02-04-2003, 11:21 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Neomoses
The one shown in that link is probably 400-600 pounds. I've seen some that go up to around 800 pounds. Those are the really nice ones with a dovetail Z axis and a relatively large range on the X and Y axes.
Yeah, thats the RF-45. Its the same one I got. Does threading too.Only real mod I made to it was change out the motor with a router motor for faster RPM
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Unread 02-06-2003, 10:19 AM   #41
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I think I made a decision... I'm going to save a bit more money untill i can afford a nice, good quality mill. Until then, I'm going to spend my time with some other projects... oh you guys want to know which ones? You'll find out... I'll post progess and all
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Unread 02-06-2003, 02:44 PM   #42
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This is such a good forum, it's amazing other sites haven't followed Pro's lead here?

As a milling machine "virgin" I've done more reading than posting, but reading this topic I was thinking the Rong Fu sounds really good, so followed the urls to find it's the same as my mill

This mill seems to go under a lot of Pseudonyms, I wonder who really makes it?. Mine was purchased in the UK where we have a lot less choice of mills than the USA, (and higher prices / taxation). I think we probably have more access to supply of older Bridgeport machines but these are mostly always three phase, so would require single phase motors, and are by design huge, so although they maybe a better choice in the long I decided on the Rong Fu. Mine is actually named SIP 30 and I have a brief preview of it included in my Radeon 9700 Cooler build project, (click pic).



I totally agree with LiquidRulez comments it is a great tool, although it can be seen it's evidently made to a cost, which is understandable. Those considering it should be aware of the weight. There is NO way, (unless you won the strongest man contest), that you'd lift the thing on your own. Even two people would struggle, I had to use a car engine crane to assemble it as it wouldn't fit in one piece in my, (compact by American standards), estate car, (station wagon). I made a stand for it but it needs to be strong as it weighs in at nearly 400lbs (180kg)!

LiquidRulez I be interested in the CNC kits that can be used with it if you have any links or info, and you are correct the column, (I have a circular type, wasn't aware there was any other option), is a pain in the @$$, with recalibration).

I also really like the look of morphling1's mill...... looks a real quality item.

Another thing that is true.... this is a HUGE money pit, you can keep throwing it in, but if you have a little ability it's worth it imo when you can spit stuff like this out:-



I'm getting better but so far two dead 5mm 4 flute end mills and one partially dead 5mm, and one dead 2mm also.

I've since made a milling lubrication / cooling system using / modifying a cheap parts washer.........appears to work really well.





For those that don't have the funds to throw at expensive mills, I could and did get by making good enough blocks with nothing more than basic hand tools if need be, as my original homemade "milling machine" was almost useless, details in sig link.
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Unread 02-06-2003, 02:58 PM   #43
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now bladerunner, don't discourage me by showing your nice, beatiful, pieces of art uhm waterblocks
I really admire your work and I know that it's possible to get great results without a mill, but I'm going to get one anyhow, someday, when I've saved a bit more money to buy a decent, solid mill
Oh btw, did I mention that CPU block is a cutie?
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Unread 02-06-2003, 03:58 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by dax
but I'm going to get one anyhow, someday, when I've saved a bit more money to buy a decent, solid mill
That's a good decision. My little Sherline is just that, little (35lbs). With patience it can do good stuff, but it is very limited in strength. I am going to beef mine up though. Most of the parts on it will handle the pressure, it is just that week column that causes a lot of pain when doing Copper. If nothing else I will just use the good stuff on the sherline, find a really good cross slide table and build my own mill with a stout colum and better drive screws to do what I want it to do!!!
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Unread 02-06-2003, 04:28 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by BladeRunner
This is such a good forum, it's amazing other sites haven't followed Pro's lead here?

I always considered myself a DIY guy, but always thought of this miling and lathing stuff as 'better leave it to the pro's'...Here, I learn so much, and see you guys who do it at home and not necessarily have a machine shop...now I just want to try it...great possibilities open with such a machine...It's an expensive hobby I know, but all of my 'hobbies' are like that

Yeah, GREAT forum indeed!

BladeRunner, your mill is brand new, how much does it cost?

Thx!
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Unread 02-06-2003, 06:33 PM   #46
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Well some people's hobbies involve dressing in rubber suits and inflating themselves, or extreme ironing at the top of mountains... so when I think of them, I feel far more "normal" sitting here with a serious copper fetish

The good thing about this forum is that it generates more detailed discussion and information sharing, on this type subject that would in the past have got lost in a general water-cooling or extreme cooling forum. I guess Pro intend to keep at as it appears popular, I hope so anyway.

Details of my Sip 30 mill, (that I'm 99% sure reading the specs and comparing images is the same as the Rong fu mill), are in the Mill image link in my previous post, including UK price when I bought it.
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Unread 02-06-2003, 11:15 PM   #47
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BladeRunner, How do you get that surface finish on your blocks? Is that from a vibratory tumbler, a rotary tumbler, or just a buffing wheel? It's amazing that you put such a surface finish on all your blocks. I'd like to do the same for all my blocks, but without a buffer or polisher, it's nearly impossible.
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Unread 02-07-2003, 12:36 AM   #48
dima y
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Default read!!!

for real dude the least you could do before asking. -nice tone of voice here-

read blade runner's articles on watercooling the R300 and Geforce4 ti 4600 and you'll get the gist!

For the those that are ****ing lazy to click a few links:

http://www.deviantpc.com/articles/gf4wcp1/p4.shtml



P.S. i am sorry if I sound like i am angry, I am a nice guy, really!
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Unread 02-07-2003, 04:36 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by dima y
for real dude the least you could do before asking. -nice tone of voice here-

read blade runner's articles on watercooling the R300 and Geforce4 ti 4600 and you'll get the gist!

For the those that are ****ing lazy to click a few links:

http://www.deviantpc.com/articles/gf4wcp1/p4.shtml



P.S. i am sorry if I sound like i am angry, I am a nice guy, really!
I totally understand your point, many people do not read before posting. However, I have been following BladeRunner's work for quite some time now. If you've followed it as closely as I have, you'll notice a couple of things:
1. His early blocks had many more flat surfaces than this last one.
2. His surface finish seems to have improved over his early blocks.

The polishing method described in your link only works well for flat surfaces. Although possible for curved surfaces, it becomes exponentially more difficult with tight spaces. If you look closely at this latest block, it appears that even the brass hose barb is polished, and even polished well on the inside. I have made many, many waterblocks, and have never seen brass barbs available for purchase that are internally and externally polished. It also appears that the barb may have been polished after being inserted into the block, as I see no telltale signs of wrench-tightening.

Although it is still possible to polish this latest block using the same method, I'm just wondering if BladeRunner still does it all manually, as by my estimation there is well over 5 hours of polishing by hand to reach that lustre. I'd like to hear his answer, please.
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Unread 02-07-2003, 06:47 PM   #50
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Get a decent mill is my advice.

My mill weighs between 250-300KGs AFAIK.

Having a few small problems with it atm (table shaking) but I think It was because me and my dad started fiddling with backlash and table tension.

Also try to get a mill with a square column (one where the table moves up and down rather than the head could be even better). Try really hard to get a mill that allows you to lock all axis. This stops any potenial movement in other dimensions when you dont want it (Why we originally started fiddling with backlash etc, to stop some slight movement as my mill cant lock the x and y axis )

Decent vice is always good thing to have. I have an older vice that allows the work to be tilted and angled. And a new very nice vice that allows 360ยบ movement.

I'd also recommend getting a set of parallels, which I don't have atm and am using bits of wood

Even if you dont want CNC now, look at each mill in terms of ease of conversion, you don't want to spend lots of $$$ to not be able to do what you want in the future.
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