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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums. |
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01-23-2004, 12:16 AM | #301 | |
Thermophile
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Quote:
50000hr MTBF (5.7yrs) as opposed 2500hr (3.5 months) <-- The big one Just shy of being an Iwaki MD15-R (60Hz) equivalent PQ curve, better than a Danner Mag 3 PQ curve. Real-world flow rates typically 90% that of what would be achieved with the Johnson at anything under 3GPM Stick 2 in series and you'd have real-world flow-rates typically 20% higher than the Johnson at anything under 3GPM Closed-impellor design (like the Swiftech MCP600) 10x10x10cm - including the barbs $95 US as opposed to $150 US <-- The other big one Quite frankly, it's about the single most ideal 12VDC pump for computer water cooling out there. |
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01-23-2004, 01:36 AM | #302 |
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V12, as the Surplus Johnson's are "direct drive" there's no way to seal the rotating shaft, without some sort of bearing seal - and this is the component I (and I believe others) have reported to be leaking.
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01-23-2004, 02:00 AM | #303 |
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found the "brother" to the swiftech MC600 pump (whatever they call it)
Page 14 looks exactly like the swiftec pump housing to me if you look at the bearing life 10,000 hours bearing life!!! thats what one of the catalogs i have says as well http://www.arozone.com/downloads/0004-P.PDF my guess is that swiftech custom ordered that pump in the 12volt version from the company. also explains the bearing problem the old version has been having. Cathar thx for the STEAL deal on that new pump in town would you mind posting oppinions when you get it? i think i might just order one from them Last edited by dima y; 01-23-2004 at 02:08 AM. |
01-23-2004, 03:17 AM | #304 | |
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AFAIK (from the CM series datasheet) the CM30P7-1 has a ball bearing permanent magnet motor. Permanent magnet motors by conception are brushless... This is one of the two big differences between the CO30 and the CM30 series (beneath the direct driven vs mag driven impeller). Couldn't find any number for the MTBF although. BTW, these Laing pumps look promising, what about availability and pricing? CD
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01-23-2004, 04:34 AM | #305 |
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So that 94$ one is the Bronze or Noryl Plastic one?
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01-23-2004, 04:35 AM | #306 | ||||
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The engineer informed me that Johnson are looking into making a brushless DC version of the CM30, but not to hold my breath on it appearing real soon. Quote:
The German engineering data for the D4 pumps can be found starting here: http://www.laing.de/10Produkte/40Pum...en/00index.htm They are made for solar hot water circulation. |
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01-23-2004, 04:37 AM | #307 | |
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Here's the PQ curve. It's the D4 that I was looking at: |
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01-23-2004, 04:47 AM | #308 |
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What I found interesting is the voltage range: 6-24V
You can actually run these pumps at up to 24V(!) The PQ curves are for 12V operation. |
01-23-2004, 08:16 AM | #309 |
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GOD! 6-24V!
A must have!
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01-23-2004, 10:37 AM | #310 | |
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If you look at the pics again, you'll notice that the impeller housing is vented, where the shaft sticks out of the motor. Sealing those vents could cause the water leak to extend into the motor, and you definitely don't want that! |
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01-23-2004, 01:27 PM | #311 |
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Interesting pump you found, Cathar. If/when my CM30-P7-1 gives up, I may look at that model for a replacement. Should fit pretty much the same.
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01-24-2004, 02:46 AM | #312 | |
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01-26-2004, 10:44 AM | #313 |
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Does anyone have an opinion on packing the vents with petroleum jelly?
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01-26-2004, 11:34 AM | #314 | |
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What vents are you talking about? I use petrolium jelly to seal o-rings on my Mag 3, so it works wonders for sealing stuff non permanently. I think I was the one who came up with the idea of sealing the mag 3 with the stuff. Do the "vents" leak or something?
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01-26-2004, 11:41 AM | #315 |
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I don't think that will affect the MTBF too much personally as the wearing out of brushes seems to be the cause for 4-6month life span. Don't know why you's spend a lot of energy making a pump leakproof that you know is going to die in your rig shortly...
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01-27-2004, 03:03 AM | #316 |
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Just a weird thought: In SCUBA we use a thin layer of silicon grease to aid in sealing "O" rings on gages and camera housings. The gages work at 3k psi.
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01-27-2004, 11:07 AM | #317 | |
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How does this pump fail? How does it "die", and what can anyone do to extend its life? All I can think about, is how the manufacturer recomends the installation to be either horizontal, or "motor side up". I have to assume that it's meant to prevent water from flowing into the motor compartment. Does a bearing seize, and the motor burn out as a result? Wouldn't the fuse (from the proposed support circuit) prevent it from burning out? The only hint I've seen so far is that the brush holder (made of nylon) melts under extreme heat, so would some dielectric grease work, and if it does, how much longer can one expect this pump to live? |
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01-27-2004, 01:23 PM | #318 |
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Brush holders made of nylon? Sounds like pretty weak design. All the parts I've ever seen made from nylon that involve force in one direction or movement, such as the brushes, have all worn out the nylon causing extreme slop. In the case of the brushes it probably causes the brushes move off axis enough to stop them working or even lock up the motor.
If the motor is meant to stay dry why would they not use bronze or something else?
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01-27-2004, 03:47 PM | #319 |
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Cathar, those pumps, have a max flow of 6 gpm @24 volts.
The pq curves go a litle above 6 gpm, they really look like they are made at 24volts.
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01-27-2004, 04:04 PM | #320 | ||
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The curves are at 12V. I spoke with Laing (the manufacturer) directly. Quote:
Last edited by Cathar; 01-27-2004 at 04:20 PM. |
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01-27-2004, 04:19 PM | #321 | |
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01-27-2004, 04:59 PM | #322 | |
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12V D4 here: http://www.laing.de/30Ausschreibungstexte/D412V.htm 24V D4K here: http://www.laing.de/30Ausschreibungstexte/D4K24V.htm |
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01-27-2004, 06:50 PM | #323 |
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01-27-2004, 07:45 PM | #324 |
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I dont know if thats the 12v or 24 volts one.
I do believe thats the curve for the 12v pump at 12volts, equal to the 24 volts at 24 volts. But i find it hard to believe thats the graph for the 12 volts, at 12 volts, and that it is able to run at 24 volts. --->Are you sure that the 12volt one rated at 24 isnt the 24volt one? --->And in this case is the 24 volt one able to do 48 volt? Maybe im wrong, but in that case it wouldnt consume 14 watts. Still a very nice pump indeed. I checked the site http://www.oberread.com/ And theres this:
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01-27-2004, 08:10 PM | #325 |
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Oberread is just a re-distributor. Hardly the most accurate source for their information, especially since they just converted the original manufacturer's metric data into US format.
When in doubt, talk to the manufacturer directly, which is exactly what I did. Follow the links I provided above to the German parent company site who actually make the pumps. The 12V pump is indeed 1400LPH (~6.16GPM). The oberread site has probably gotten the specs for the 12 and 24V models mixed up. As for "hard to believe for 12V at 24V", it's not uncommon for DC pump manufacturers will use 24V rated wiring in the motors, and then rework the pump to run in 12V mode as well. This is less work for them to do this, and it often gives the 12V model a longer life-span. I was chatting to a Shurflo pump engineer about this while we were discussing MTBF's for various motors. He told me of the various continuously-rated motor models that they built, that while rated at 12V, were internally built to handle 24V power, and these were the more desirable motors to get a hold of. |
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