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Water Block Design / Construction Building your own block? Need info on designing one? Heres where to do it

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Unread 01-13-2005, 07:46 AM   #1
zoson
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Default Acetal Topped DD Maze4 GPU

So wandered through DangerDen's site this morning while I had nothing to do and noticed they were making blocks with a top out of a material I had never heard of before.
Upon further investigation I found this helpful description on MatWeb.
http://www.matweb.com/reference/acetal-polymer.asp
What worries me the most is that DD did not pick a substance resistant to corrosion, yet again. The document clearly states that the material breaks down under basic OR acidic conditions, and I'm pretty sure that water is naturally slightly basic...
Sure, it's durable, it won't break because you drop it, it won't crack or shatter (something i'm thankful dangerden DID address if some of you remember my posts about the two cylindrical reservoirs they have sent me.) But I'm not too sure I'd want little flakes of this coming off and getting into my lines. =\
Personally I like shiny things anyway... Go brass and chrome!
-Zoson
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Unread 01-13-2005, 08:29 AM   #2
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About time a mfg makes a delrin topped block, acetal and delrin is virtually the same thing.

It is quite smart that they finally made one, I bet they rip through those tops 10x faster than they did with the aluminum ones.

but I had the first acetal topped gpu block!

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Unread 01-13-2005, 09:13 AM   #3
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zoson as j fettig stated acetal and delrin are the same thing, incase you havent noticed cathar's new g4 blocks are delrin topped.

aslong as they are black delrin there shouldnt be any problems with uv related degradation, also im pretty shure pure water (read distilled) has a ph of 7 (neutral) so shouldnt be a problem.

plus i believe most water additives that ppl use in thier loops are alakaline in nature.

i think i mucht grab one of those in the future to replace the clear top on my rbxif they start making those in delrin.

also i no longer have a reason to not get a maze4 GPU instead of a cyclone fusion HL
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Unread 01-13-2005, 10:19 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragger56
zoson as j fettig stated acetal and delrin are the same thing, incase you havent noticed cathar's new g4 blocks are delrin topped.

aslong as they are black delrin there shouldnt be any problems with uv related degradation, also im pretty shure pure water (read distilled) has a ph of 7 (neutral) so shouldnt be a problem.

plus i believe most water additives that ppl use in thier loops are alakaline in nature.

i think i mucht grab one of those in the future to replace the clear top on my rbxif they start making those in delrin.

also i no longer have a reason to not get a maze4 GPU instead of a cyclone fusion HL
OK, this is a very common misconception! water is NOT inert! Maybe our resident professor of chemisty would like to explain this technically, since I slept through a lot of my chem classes. :O (sorry ph!) I believe pure distilled H2O has a Ph of 7.2 or 7.4 abouts. While many of you may whine that even 7.4 is 'for all intents and purposes inert' the fact of the matter is most of us do not run just plane jane water.
Does anyone know the respective pH's of water wetter and other additives?
Someone needs to make some all copper blocks including barbs for paranoids like me. =P I've seen too much galvanic corrosion and leeching in my watercooling lifetime to trust any of this mix and matching of alloys, metals, and polymers.
-Zoson
Edit - one more thing, just because cathar uses something doesn't mean that it's 'the best' he has to make production sacrifices also. As you stated, and as I imagined, acetal and derelin are easier to mill = less time on the mill = less cost. I do respect his decision to use derelin, but we haven't seen it used before, nor have we seen any long term installations. Hell it took the enthusiast community years to stop mixing al and cu. in fact we're still doing it.
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Unread 01-13-2005, 10:26 AM   #5
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Read This

Notice, they all make the water alkaline.
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Unread 01-13-2005, 10:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKamel
Read This

Notice, they all make the water alkaline.
Well there you have it folks, derelin is not a safe compound for your system. Yet another useless development. i think i'll stick a live wire from my psu into my coolant next. =\
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Unread 01-13-2005, 12:00 PM   #7
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Do you even have numbers to how much delrin breaks down at what pH? How is it affected exactly, cause I'm pretty sure it doesnt just dissolve away.

Do you trust plastic parts in your pump? I'm sure many pumps are made of this or similar materials but handle everything fine. Tubing? I'm sure at some pH, tubing will begin to degrade. So you dont even want solder in your radiator coming in contact with the water?

Irrational fears.
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Unread 01-13-2005, 12:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoson
Well there you have it folks, derelin is not a safe compound for your system. Yet another useless development. i think i'll stick a live wire from my psu into my coolant next. =\
and there you have it folks, another pronouncement declaring the poster a fool

pH - can we award dunce caps to some of these guys ?
assuming that they do not wish to be known as such (???)

try the frontal lobes with that wire
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Unread 01-13-2005, 12:07 PM   #9
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When materials sheets say "sensitive to acid or base" they often mean the material is not suited for the EXTREMES. Since water in our systems is not going to be pH 1 or pH 13 then it's not really an issue I don't believe.
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Unread 01-13-2005, 12:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unregistered
and there you have it folks, another pronouncement declaring the poster a fool

pH - can we award dunce caps to some of these guys ?
assuming that they do not wish to be known as such (???)

try the frontal lobes with that wire
I was respectful in all of my posts. I may be younger, but responses like this are something I expect to hear from my 13 year old cousin. Not a buisness man. Why don't you find me some better specsheets that describe the properties of Acetal.

Back it up instead of showing off that stick in your backend.
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Unread 01-13-2005, 12:29 PM   #11
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buy a college intro text describing plastics, learn about the types
google extensively on the corrosion resistance of plastics
understand the types of (ASTM) corrosion testing (for plastics) and the intended use of the data
it is something of a black art for some plastics in severe service, not for our app though

-> THEN you can say "Well there you have it folks, derelin is not a safe compound for your system."

that you have declared yourself an incompetent fool is your concern
when you start posting stupid shit, like your 13 yr old ?, then I will call you a fool
who cares if foolish incorrect info is posted "respectfully" ?; better by far to have not put up the bogus finding

zoson has reproached me for namecalling by using the word "fool"
not so, people are characterized by their actions
consider it a considered description

Last edited by BillA; 01-13-2005 at 12:34 PM.
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Unread 01-13-2005, 12:31 PM   #12
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I wish I had the delrin top for my maze 4, it is one heavy beast.
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Unread 01-13-2005, 06:40 PM   #13
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Sorry zoson, I'm going to have to side with Bill on this one (many heads shaking yet?!?).

It's easy to get mislead with technical information, like MatWeb. If you had compared the substance with others that you are familiar with, it might have given you an idea of the extent of the corrosion resistance.

Specifically, try comparing iron with acetal, and see how different they are. then check a few other substances in between (copper, alu, nylon, silicone) for a clearer picture.

I'm going through the same exercise to identify a good insulation material (also through MatWeb) for my heat die.
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Unread 01-13-2005, 06:51 PM   #14
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Ben
let me know if you find anything better than phenolic for the die itself
I'm needing some for more dies
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Unread 01-13-2005, 07:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unregistered
zoson has reproached me for namecalling by using the word "fool"
not so, people are characterized by their actions
consider it a considered description
Haven't you learned anything Bill? This is the internet not the real world. On the net people act stupid, foolish and ignorant but when they are called such YOUR the one that is wrong for saying such and in fact labled a flammer and a-hole.

Just like the real world, you leave your keys in your car and YOU are the one at fault for your car being stolen not the guy that actually drove off with it.....
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Unread 01-13-2005, 07:42 PM   #16
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it is the interweb. the interweb knows everything. if you ask google. it will tell you everything you want to know.

there is not excuse for ignorance.

if you dont know something, dont post something as if you do.
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Unread 01-13-2005, 08:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoson
Well there you have it folks, derelin is not a safe compound for your system. Yet another useless development. i think i'll stick a live wire from my psu into my coolant next. =\
Yegads! You better call all the car manufacturer's world-wide and tell them to stop using Delrin is various sections of their car coolant systems.

What with millions of cars on the road, we could be looking at incredible problems.

This is just a total DISASTER!! How could have all the senior engineers at so many companies have gotten it so wrong all this time?

The horror! The humanity!

/me weeps and sobs inconsolably at the very thought of the scale of the world-wide disaster that is about to happen any moment now!
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Unread 01-14-2005, 06:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unregistered
that you have declared yourself an incompetent fool is your concern
when you start posting stupid shit, like your 13 yr old ?, then I will call you a fool...
I think I found the perfect sig for Bill:

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
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Unread 01-14-2005, 06:58 PM   #19
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ah Scott, I live with that thought every day
- because I violate that maxim daily
but it seems so right at the time . . . . .

its corollary BTW is "Children should be seen and not heard."
obviously an English upbringing
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