Go Back   Pro/Forums > ProCooling Technical Discussions > Heatsink/ Heat Pipe / ThermoSiphon Cooling
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar JavaChat Mark Forums Read

Heatsink/ Heat Pipe / ThermoSiphon Cooling The cat will only make the mistake of putting its paw by your HSF once. :) Also the place to discuss the new high end heat pipe goodness.

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 04-09-2003, 10:08 AM   #1
satanicoo
Cooling Savant
 
satanicoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: portugal
Posts: 635
Default Building my own AMD cpu cooler

Hi there.

i have been around for a few months, and i think im able to make a prototype for a new air cooler, with your help of course .

so, i am using the same ideals of cathar's ww water block, althout this is for air, meaning, i dont know if it is a good idea.

i am using a very small heasink, as you can see on the pic, but i am basing myself on a very high air flow.

what i need to know is:

-is this a good idea?? :shrug:
-if yes, any improvements you can think off?

here are some stats:

-120mm fan (probably ill buy a high pressure one)
-the heatsing, in the fins area, has only 25mm * 25mm


ps: im thinking of 0.2mm fins with 0.8 mm space between them.
good?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg cooler.jpg (30.0 KB, 415 views)
satanicoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-09-2003, 10:37 AM   #2
bigben2k
Responsible for 2%
of all the posts here.
 
bigben2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,302
Default

I don't know how you plan to make 0.2mm fins: that would be very hard. Otherwise, your ratio of channel to fin (4:1) is on the low side. Compare the ratios of existing HSF to get a better idea. As I remember, 8:1 or 10:1 is closer to ideal.

You should increase the area to cover all of the baseplate, i.e. 50 by 50mm: you'll need all the cooling that you can get.

BTW, you might want to look at existing skived fin heatsinks. You can find many in the OC roundup.
bigben2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-09-2003, 11:55 AM   #3
satanicoo
Cooling Savant
 
satanicoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: portugal
Posts: 635
Default

the idea was really to use the small area, because, since the amd core is so small, only a small area of the fins would get hot.

if i pass a huge amout of air trow them, it would cool if better then a normal large cooler, because on a large cooler the air tends to not reach the midle of the heatsink, so only cooling on the outer part of the heatsink.

right?

about the fins:

i have access to the so-called erosao por fio (translated: wire erosion) that can get that small fins easily, but it takes some time to erode.

ratio of chanel to fin? whats that? :P

NOTE: i really dont have any idea how the fins should be, if i get it right, you say i should have like 0.2mm fins with like 0.3 space between? remenber, with a small heatsink like this i already have flow problems... maybe raising the 25mm* 25mm a bit can help, i dunno.

what fins are those skived?
satanicoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-09-2003, 12:11 PM   #4
bigben2k
Responsible for 2%
of all the posts here.
 
bigben2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,302
Default

Right...

Take a look at this skived copper block (from this review):


I know it's hard to tell, but the fins are shaved from the baseplate.

As for the ratio, If you plan on having channels that are 0.8 mm wide, and fins that are 0.2mm thick, then your channel-to-fin ratio is 4:1

So for a ratio of 8:1, with 0.2mm thick fins, your channel would be 1.6mm.
bigben2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-09-2003, 05:14 PM   #5
RoboTech
Cooling Savant
 
RoboTech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 229
Default

Interesting idea...

IMHO a 120 mm axial fan will never be able to generate enough static pressure to create the amount of flow you will need. A big fan may push a lot of air free-flow but when you choke it down like that it will basically just stall and move little or no air at all.

You're idea might work if you used compressed air... but then that would get rather expensive not to mention noisy!

Water works in the micro channels because of its high specific heat and thermal conductivity - air just can't compete.

Keep thinking...
RoboTech is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-09-2003, 06:36 PM   #6
jaydee
Put up or Shut Up
 
jaydee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 6,506
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by satanicoo
the idea was really to use the small area, because, since the amd core is so small, only a small area of the fins would get hot.
Not so actually. With air you need as large of area as possible. Therefor you use a good thick base that will spread the heat out to the fins. In water cooling you make a thin base so the heat doesn't spread out before it can be cooled, but air cooling isn't as efficent so you have to get that heat spread out on a MUCH larger surface area so it can be displaced by the less efficent air. Thats why air coolers are so big.

Remember the worst the cooling capacity of the coolant, the larger area that is needed to cool said area as it will need a lot more of the coolant to make up for lack of cooling capacity.
jaydee is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-09-2003, 07:59 PM   #7
satanicoo
Cooling Savant
 
satanicoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: portugal
Posts: 635
Default

i was afraid you where gonna say that.

indeed, air is nothing compared to water in moving heat, so it will have to have a bigger area of air dissipation.

but, i do disagree that the rule is the more the merrier. i think slk900 can be better if smaller, with a high-pressure, high cfm fan. but i dont know how much smaller.

i dont know the size i should have. do you ppl know any software that can simulate air moving? doesnt matter if its expensive, i can always crack it .

but then again: imagine this cooler with a VACUUM cleaner fan ( i mean that thing used to clean the house, dunno if this is the correct translation). it does have an enourmous suction power, so maybe, maybe it could be good...

but i need an air simulator software....
satanicoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-09-2003, 08:05 PM   #8
jaydee
Put up or Shut Up
 
jaydee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 6,506
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by satanicoo


but, i do disagree that the rule is the more the merrier. i think slk900 can be better if smaller, with a high-pressure, high cfm fan. but i dont know how much smaller.

More is marrier. You either have to have more surface area and less air flow or more air flow and less surface area. You have to have more of either. Most prefer more surface area simply because less airflow means less noise. More airflow will make ANY air cooler work better regardless of the size of the cooler.
jaydee is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-09-2003, 08:13 PM   #9
satanicoo
Cooling Savant
 
satanicoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: portugal
Posts: 635
Default

imagine a 1 meter high cooler. you put a fan on top of it.

if im correct, air tends to leave the heatsink as soon as possible, because the heatsink is flow restrictive
Attached Images
File Type: jpg heat1.jpg (16.0 KB, 351 views)
satanicoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-09-2003, 08:17 PM   #10
satanicoo
Cooling Savant
 
satanicoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: portugal
Posts: 635
Default

the only chance i see to a slk900 is having an air barrier like this:

with water, you can make sure the coolant passes right on top of the core, but with air.... i dunno.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg heat1.jpg (21.5 KB, 355 views)
satanicoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-09-2003, 08:56 PM   #11
bigben2k
Responsible for 2%
of all the posts here.
 
bigben2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,302
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by jaydee116
In water cooling you make a thin base so the heat doesn't spread out before it can be cooled, but air cooling isn't as efficent so you have to get that heat spread out on a MUCH larger surface area so it can be displaced by the less efficent air. Thats why air coolers are so big.
I couldn't have said it better!

If one looks at the latest round of DIY waterblocks, we can see that the fins/pins are relatively small. In my block, the fins are 4mm tall.


As for a tool, you might want to check out Kryotherm, which you can download for free at www.kryotherm.ru

You can then try all the variations of straight fins heatsinks, with pretty much any fluid, wether the fluid is a gas or a liquid. You also have the option of two flow types: across, or from-the-top-down.
bigben2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-09-2003, 09:22 PM   #12
satanicoo
Cooling Savant
 
satanicoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: portugal
Posts: 635
Default

just checked my basement and found a nice litle fan:

ebm w2s123-bm03-01

150mm

46w...

hell.... why not?
satanicoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-10-2003, 03:29 PM   #13
satanicoo
Cooling Savant
 
satanicoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: portugal
Posts: 635
Default

the max i will go will be a 50mm * 50mm fins, just like in the pic, and i think is too much!

must check the proggie ben told...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg cooler2.jpg (30.7 KB, 333 views)

Last edited by satanicoo; 04-10-2003 at 04:43 PM.
satanicoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2003, 09:58 AM   #14
satanicoo
Cooling Savant
 
satanicoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: portugal
Posts: 635
Default

just decided with my partner to make 0.15mm fins and 1.2mm chanels.

however, it will take like 2 months.

just saying this, i didnt give up on it, but it will take a bit.
satanicoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2003, 10:52 AM   #15
bigben2k
Responsible for 2%
of all the posts here.
 
bigben2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,302
Default

A perfect 8:1 ratio. Nice

Good luck! Keep us posted.
bigben2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-20-2003, 05:55 PM   #16
satanicoo
Cooling Savant
 
satanicoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: portugal
Posts: 635
Default

another subject has apeared:

-the shroud!

someone told me it would be better and easier to do if it was round, and i think i agree, what do you think?

[IMG]image[/IMG]

BTW: making the shroud in acrilic, would be transparent, but when cutted/machinised, acrilic get opac! ( hope this is the expression)

what transparent material you use to make those shiny transparent coolers?

is it what you call "plexiglass"?
satanicoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-21-2003, 11:24 PM   #17
satanicoo
Cooling Savant
 
satanicoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: portugal
Posts: 635
Default

sorry forgot the pic
Attached Images
File Type: jpg cooler3.jpg (28.3 KB, 285 views)
satanicoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2003, 06:41 PM   #18
satanicoo
Cooling Savant
 
satanicoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: portugal
Posts: 635
Default

my friend says it will have to have an angle. i wonder if its good?

can you say something? heres pic:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg fins.jpg (6.7 KB, 253 views)
satanicoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2003, 06:42 PM   #19
bigben2k
Responsible for 2%
of all the posts here.
 
bigben2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,302
Default

It's not a bad idea, but I'd like to see some numbers behind that.

I'd certainly try it.
bigben2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-18-2003, 06:01 PM   #20
Riscoo
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marinha Grande
Posts: 10
Default

-

Last edited by Riscoo; 09-05-2003 at 05:53 PM.
Riscoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-18-2003, 06:08 PM   #21
Riscoo
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marinha Grande
Posts: 10
Default

-

Last edited by Riscoo; 09-05-2003 at 05:54 PM.
Riscoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-18-2003, 06:13 PM   #22
satanicoo
Cooling Savant
 
satanicoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: portugal
Posts: 635
Default

welcome to our forums!

riscoo is a friend of mine, trying to show its ugly 3d skills, by showing a 'better' render of my block....

without a 120mm fan...
with a super huge cooler...
with fat, realy FAT fins....

welcome
satanicoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-18-2003, 06:21 PM   #23
Riscoo
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marinha Grande
Posts: 10
Default

:shrug:

Last edited by Riscoo; 09-05-2003 at 05:55 PM.
Riscoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-18-2003, 06:27 PM   #24
Riscoo
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marinha Grande
Posts: 10
Default


Last edited by Riscoo; 09-05-2003 at 05:56 PM.
Riscoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-18-2003, 06:48 PM   #25
Riscoo
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marinha Grande
Posts: 10
Default


Last edited by Riscoo; 09-05-2003 at 05:56 PM.
Riscoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(C) 2005 ProCooling.com
If we in some way offend you, insult you or your people, screw your mom, beat up your dad, or poop on your porch... we're sorry... we were probably really drunk...
Oh and dont steal our content bitches! Don't give us a reason to pee in your open car window this summer...