Phase Change

[bowman1964]

SORRY GUYS IF YOU THINK ME USING CAP LOCKS ON THE KEYBOARD MEANS I AM MAD.JUST MY PC AT WORK HERE USES CAP LOCKS ON ALL THE TIME SO I DONT PAY IT MUCH MIND.
I AM HAPPY TO ANSER ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE I HAVE BEEN AROUND COOLING AND AC FOR 20 YEARS.I JUST DONT GET ONLINE MOST DAYS UNTILL AT NIGHT. I AM A SINGLE PARENT WITH TWO CHILDREN SO MY TIME SOMETIMES ISNT THE BEST.

[ReallyUgly]

First Question:
where can one find refrigerant.. i mean to make a Direct phase cooling system youre going to design the components part by part and then interconnecting them. This would mean that U would have too add refrigerant to the system .. where can one find that ?

Second Question:
Should u not have a separator (vapor / liquid) before the compressor ?
Correct me if i am wrong, If u don't have a seperator the compressor could work abnormal (bubbles) and lead to explosion danger (potential) ?
And if u don't have a seperator u should have enough evaporation area (right ??), I don't think cooling a cpu is sufficient ... or am i mistaking here.
Evaporator design do u have a guide--> block on cpu)

Third Question:
For the reducing pressure U used cappilary tubes or ..?? did u contruct it u'r self ? GUIDE ?
or just using one off a Fridge ...?

how about a guide...

[bigben2k]

A guide would be nice, but what you're asking for, is HVAC training.

Basically, a phase change system is composed of 4 parts:
-compressor
-evaporator
-condenser
-nozzle

Yes, having a res helps to make sure that the pump only compresses what it's supposed to compress is good, but otherwise, it only affects performance.

I found a source for refrigerants here , but it is in the USA. You should check your local shops.

[8-Ball]

Is it possible to run two evaporators from one compressor/condenser?

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by 8-Ball
Is it possible to run two evaporators from one compressor/condenser?

Absolutely, but why?

[8-Ball]

Just an idea I had.

I was thinking of running one evaporator on the cpu (like vapochill) and one cooling water in a res which could be pumped round blocks on the GPU, Northbridge, Hard Drive etc,

Either that or construct an evaporator to mount on the socket with a water channel running through it. Then you don't need a radiator in the water loop.

Tell me if you think it wouldn't work. The idea is to build my own case with all of this inside so I don't want to use peltiers or have loads of rads.

[g.l.amour]

u gonna buy a freight container as a case? dunno if your hdd is gonna benifit alot from being subzero. but for the sport i would say, go ahead, and post some pics, some overkill never hurts
;-)

[8-Ball]

This is the kind of thing I mean. The condenser and compressor will be in a separate compartment drawing air from the outside.

There will be one evaporator on the CPU and one in a holdover plate behind the mobo (the faint grey rectangle).

The main section will be insulated. There will be a water line running through the holdover plate which will directly cool the northbridge and the GPU, and the holdover plate will also reduce the air temperature in the case, just like a freezer.

Still needs lots of thought and I'm really busy at the moment, but I'll get there eventually.

[|PuNiSh3R|]

Ok, if you use your phase change system as a water cooler you don't need a radiator in your system anyway..

I run 3 evaporators.. All 3 of them are for water chilling.

Once I start hosting my own website I will put pics up of my project.. I remember someone here offering me web space.. but can't remember who..

Anyway.. Your best bet is just to do water chilling.. I have a total of 3 seperate evaps with about 12ft of copper 1/4" tubing each.. and 2 condensors.. about 11ft each.. both water cooled with a radiator in that system.

My entire system is water cooled..

A seperate water system cools the condensors which goes to a radiator.. back to the res..

Then another system goes into three seperate PVC 3" evaporator tubes.. gets chilled.. then goes to my CPU.. then a few other custom cooling things I made.. for the GPU and GPU memory.. then to the northbridge.. then to the system DDR.. and possibly do the southbridge.. plus there is a chip by the system memory.. that gets pretty hot.. I am going to do something with that.. I consider any part on my board that gets HOT to be a spot of weakness for overclocking

[000]

SonixOS:

How insulated is your reservoir? It will make a big difference if it's not super insulated. I've seen -38c with mine and it's basically the same as yours, is your evaporator completely submerged that might make a difference (you want it to be completely submerged). Do you have any pictures of your setup,that might help some if you do.

Sorry for not replying for so long, I've been at siggraph.

-Sidney

[SonixOS]

000, Well its looks like a 1/4" thick plexiglass, I wish i asked for more but i got it for free. Its really really bad. After running the joint for a while, I try wiping off condensation and it comes right back on again after maybe 2 secs. Its really freaky. Its completely submerged. The evaporator is FREEEZING! I was thinking i would insulated if I can find a clear kind of insulation. I would make a bigger box, and fit it outside of it and fill the space inbetween with clear insulation. and where did u take that temp reading? Water or processor? And ur the one who got the same dehumidifier 65 pint kenmore joint that u got for like 70?

Whats siggraph?

thx ppl. I'll try to get a good thermometer and fit it in a T. my friend broke my (actually its my school's) alcohol thermometer. I sealed the sides of the top with silicone so its permanent. I'll ask my friend to take a picture of the setup and send it to me.

[000]

Yup I'm the one that got the 65pint kenmore for $76, that temp was just in the water without the cpu on. If you're getting lots of condensation then insulation should help a bunch. You might want to try just covering the stuff with as many towels as you can, won't be perfect but will help you to see how much it'll help.

Siggraph is a graphics convention. Basically it's where companies like Nvidia, Ati, SGI, etc. and people from universities show off their latest graphics achievements.

-Sidney

[|PuNiSh3R|]

Yes.. Insulation will give you a HUGE drop in the temp dude..

[bowman1964]

|PuNiSh3R| buddy i am at the point of running the cooler on a running pc.and guess what....i dont think the pc reads low enough because i let the evaporator get down to -45 or so and crank up the pc.wont read any lower than -15c.i ran everthing i could do to it.temps only dropped 2 degreec c.damm this block is one cooling machine.i am running it on my iwill xp333 with a xp1800 that would never run over 1700mhz with good water cooling.with 2.05volts.now it is running 1850mhz at 1.90 volts and i havent even started jacking it up.just started there.i tried something to i cut off the compressor to see how long it would take to heat you the cpu.went past a minute and never dropped a degree or 2.cut it off and i need to get my xp2100 unlocked and crank it up. ooooooooooooo yeaaaaaaaa

[|PuNiSh3R|]

Bowman, that's really cool.. I'm glad to hear you got such kick ass results! So whats the total building cost.. that is if u did the project again now knowing the knowledge that you need to correctly make the block one time around..

[ReallyUgly]

Well i am going to give it a Shot......

First will do the Research... and get a source for refrigerants.. Don't know if u need a special permit here.. Hope not..

anyway i know some guys who study HVAC i'll start YELLING "HELP"

They have a refrigeration department at my school.. just make some friends there ... hope that will improve my succes rate

Keep u informed.. that is if i don't blow something up

[|PuNiSh3R|]

Have your friends build it.. they might find it fun.. and you can learn from it.

[000]

well I've hooked up my setup to my processor (xp 1800) finally and with the processor at 1992 (12x166) and 2.1v I get about -5c idle and 1-4c full load. This equates to about a 123watt heat load from the cpu. Anyhow I'm pretty happy with how high I was able to clock the cpu. I had tested the cpu with a pretty good air cooling setup and I was able to get 1700 mhz with air so 292 more mhz with this is pretty good I think. I'll probably mess around with things a bit more to see if I can optimize it a bit better.

I'm thinking about possibly connecting the outlet hose to a shroud around the evaporator to force the hot water to go through the evaporator, although it seems like it won't be an easy task making the shroud.

What do ya'll think, would it be worthwhile to force the liquid through the evaporator rather than just letting it swirl around on the back of it? I'm not sure if it will or not since I do have a pretty powerful pump (it makes nice ripples in my reservoir) and I do have the outlet on one side of the evaporator and the pump on the other already.

[SonixOS]

dont make a shroud but do what i did. Have the input in one corner and output at the opposite one. thats good enough i believe. I have my pump submerged so it will pick up cold water from the bottom.

[SonixOS]

Alright its time to revive this long arse post. Tomorrow i'm out to get my dehumidifier remounted. Its going into an All Plexiglass case. I'll stuff my motherboard and such inside too. I got a picture of my dehumidifier in its current setup from this guy @ uvalan4. I was there, and so was my water chiller




I would greatly appreciate any help or idea on what i can do to fix that problem with the high temps. I got the lowest temperature -19C while 000 got -38. Yes that was with NO LOAD. HELP MEH!

[|PuNiSh3R|]

Tomorow.. I'll be finished .. and filling my system.. with propane none the less woohoo.. i got a 1/4 or 1/3HP compressor.. have no idea just know the starter I use for it is for 1/4 to 1/3 compressors..

[bowman1964]

well here it is, so far been running two weeks now.i would have been back sooner but new girlfriend taking up alot of my time.but cooler is running a iwill xp333 with a xp2100@2150mhz @1.82volts.load is -38 to -42 all the time.unloaded at idle -46.
running so cold i now have a problem being too cold .the processor seems to lose my l2 cache if i dont start up the pc and the cooler at the same time so the cpu isnt so cold at startup.in 30 seconds it will take my cpu down to -30.if i startup the cooler and computer at the same time when i reach the desktop i am already showing -20 in motherboard monitor and -38 or so on the face of the evaporator.motherboard monitor seems to be limited to -20c reading because i never show any colder temps and my loads only get to -16 or so shown on the desktop by motherboard monitor.

[|PuNiSh3R|]

Bowman.. That's kick man.. I am just about finished tonite with my system.. I got a nice R-12 compressor from a frige the other night.. it's either 1/4hp or 1/3hp.. anyone know how much power an R-12 1/4 or 1/3HP compressor takes??

I seem to have some type of gelatenous blockage in my cap tube.. which isn't sounding to good..

I was running this sytem in an r-134a compressor which uses ester oil.. now that I am using the R-12 compressor it uses mineral.. well ester and mineral don't mix well..

I cleaned out my condensor.. I vac'd it.. ran water through it.. then I vac'd it again and blasted it with my torch.. so no water in it.. I use an industrial size vac pump as well.. so it really pulls the suck..

I also did this on the evaporator with the cap tube in place.. I was sucking through the cap tube though.. I hooked the vac pump up to the suction side of the evaporator.. so .. not sure exactly what is wrong.. I hope that none of the ester mixed with the mineral oil.. or some crap.. Unless.. There must of been some water in the cap tube.. came in through the condensor.. mixed with the ester oil.. and made that vaseline line stuff that is coming out.. not sure.. I'll find out more later..

Oh, 8ball.. before you waste your cash on a hold over plate.. don't do it.. You only need one of them in systems that cycle.. your compressor won't cycle.. there is absolutely no need for one.. Unless.. you already have it .. and or it was free.. It might help your efficiency some though.. cut down on the compressor load.. letting the compressor not work so hard..

[8-Ball]

Just a quick question.

Does the orientation of the condenser matter? Would I be right in saying that you want the liquid refrigerant to drain toward the capillary tube.

If so, are there condensers that are designed to operate horizontally, ie at the top of a case.

Cheers

[bowman1964]

well yes it make a huge differance in condensor layout.it you dont have the liquid running down all the way you will get pockets of oil and freon that will collect and pool up.that is the number one thing wrong i see with sysytems online.i made my condensor from a larger one and resoldered the tubes so i could mount mine horizontally.as you can see in my pic the freon and oil always moves down so it will collect properly in the filter and calpillary tube.if you dont you will get erractic temp reading.the temp might cool fine and then stop suddenly because so much oil and freon has collected in a pocket.that will drive you insane trying to figure it out.