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Water Block Design / Construction Building your own block? Need info on designing one? Heres where to do it

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Unread 04-07-2003, 11:43 PM   #1
jaydee
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My Micro channel block. (pics)

Not putting a name on this one yet. was considering REV 4.0 but it really isn't and advancement on the REV line.


Notice I got 7 channels in less than a 1/2" area. The 1/2"ID barb covers all 7 channels!!!








This is a 1/8" thick C110 Copper base. the channel depth is 1/16" with base thickness from bottom of channels to bottom of block at 1/16" aswell. Biggest problem I am for seeing is not enough depth for the water to flow. Only have 1/16" of room for the water to push through. This maybe good or bad though. Top is laser cut 3/8" thich acrylic.
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Unread 04-08-2003, 01:08 AM   #2
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Such a small space would definitely increase the flow velocity, but it sounds like your pump might not be able to handle the increased pressure drop. Your flow rate might drop way low, and although the block might still perform well, your rad performance will suffer.

This is one big disadvantage of Cathar's block: yes, it has a high pressure drop, but it's justified by the good performance even at low flow rates... but what about the radiator performance? It will no doubt suffer from the decreased flow.

Those engraved blocks all look like they would have a high pressure drop. Would work well with my beastly max 28ft head pump.
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Unread 04-08-2003, 01:51 AM   #3
UnloadeD
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Use thicker plexi and make channels for flow in the bottom of it? Or maybe a middle plate something like:


peace.
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Unread 04-08-2003, 05:12 AM   #4
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Was this with the engraving machine JD?. Could you of done the 'fins' with straight sides instead of angled/triangular ones?...
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Unread 04-08-2003, 11:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadDogMe
Was this with the engraving machine JD?. Could you of done the 'fins' with straight sides instead of angled/triangular ones?...
Yes on the engraver, and no the only bits to be used on that machine that I have are all V shapped.
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Unread 04-08-2003, 11:45 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by UnloadeD
Use thicker plexi and make channels for flow in the bottom of it? Or maybe a middle plate something like:


peace.
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Thats looks intertesting but I have no way of making it. Laser maxes out at 3/8" which is what I used. Only thing I can see to increase flow is make a matching pattern on the acrylic top similar to what Rotor does with his blocks.


I hooked up the block last night to see if water would even flow through it and it does. Water comes out both outlets. Not real fast but it it did. I am going to give it a shot tonight or tomorrow. Best news is it wasn't leaking and I didn't even seal it yet!!!!
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Unread 04-08-2003, 11:50 PM   #7
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Block is up and running.....20C over water temp. I am getting about 5GPH through it. Considering that it is doing pretty damn good! The water coming out of the outlet hoses is just trickling. I have some modifications planned....
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Unread 04-09-2003, 10:16 PM   #8
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Here is the improvement I made today. I mirrored the channels on the top peice. I just ran it through the water test and LOTS more water comes out of it.


Also sneak peak at Mini Channel #2.



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Unread 04-09-2003, 10:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by jaydee116
...I am getting about 5GPH through it...
I know you didn't mean 5 gpm, but 5 gph?!? Can you butter it up a little bit, like 5 lpm?

Are you seeing any improvement with the mods?
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Unread 04-09-2003, 10:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigben2k
I know you didn't mean 5 gpm, but 5 gph?!? Can you butter it up a little bit, like 5 lpm?

Are you seeing any improvement with the mods?
Yes 5GPH! I have a 1/2gallon res and it took 6mins to empty it with that setup!

I havn't had a chance to seal the block up yet and install it. I just slaped the top and some barbs on unsealed and quite a bit more water went through it. I am pretty optimistic. I think it will work well. I an impressed it worked at all at 5GPH. I got some stuff to work on tonight but should have it sealed up and installed tomorrow night. This weekend I hope to have the second version going aswell. The channel depth is deeper on that one BTW. I am expecting good things.
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Unread 04-10-2003, 02:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by jaydee116
Thats looks intertesting but I have no way of making it. Laser maxes out at 3/8" which is what I used. Only thing I can see to increase flow is make a matching pattern on the acrylic top similar to what Rotor does with his blocks.
Hey, that pic was meant to suggest a middle plate, between copper base and plexi top. Your laser should be able to cut it from a thinner piece of plexi? Anyway, its just a thought in case you arent happy with results after testing.

peace.
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Unread 04-10-2003, 10:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by UnloadeD
Hey, that pic was meant to suggest a middle plate, between copper base and plexi top. Your laser should be able to cut it from a thinner piece of plexi? Anyway, its just a thought in case you arent happy with results after testing.

peace.
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Oh ok. I will keep it on mind. I got this one hooked up but will not be able to power up the system untill I get home tonight.
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Unread 04-10-2003, 10:11 PM   #13
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Been testing for 2 hours now and so far it is 11C cooler than before.
Room 24C
Water 29C
CPU 41C

Without the channels milled into the top:
Room 25C
water 32C
CPU 52C

And this isn't the #2 one either. Still the first one. If things stay as they are this will beat anything I have made to date.
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Unread 04-10-2003, 10:23 PM   #14
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jaydee, just to help ya out a little bit, Add at least 1 more channel to each side, and find yourself a small end mill to make the channels deeper. or cut into the top farther, with a diff bit, make it deeper..... your desparately in need of deeper channels, firstly to get rid of the extra heat, and secondly to add more flow.

and to make it wider, itll actually disipate the heat being spread. theres now way on earth your picking up all that heat right off the core...
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Unread 04-11-2003, 01:07 AM   #15
LiquidRulez
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Quote:
Originally posted by JFettig


and to make it wider, itll actually disipate the heat being spread. theres now way on earth your picking up all that heat right off the core...
Tell that to the WW..

For Jaydee to add another channel, that is deeper would only serve to diminish the performance I think.....


the water will ALWAYS take the path of least resistance. Whether it be less resistance from length,width,or depth, it doesnt know the difference.
EDIT...........Oops. .....I misread what you said there Jfettig.

Though I will agree that he needs to open up those channels more.........Not necessarily deeper though.

What hes got going now, is simply amazing, considering the low amount of flow he has going through it.

I think he's on the right path with his train of "tweaking" thoughts.


Not to be snide or anything Jfettig...but do you have any practically applicable info based on designing,building and testing of a simular block or any blocks that youve made, that have done better than his block, (with such low flow.. dont forget), to base your suggestion on??
Just curious..


Jam up job there Jaydee

JD...remind me again, what MB your taking your temps from?

Last edited by LiquidRulez; 04-11-2003 at 01:21 AM.
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Unread 04-11-2003, 01:16 AM   #16
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Jaydee, is it possible to use a small square cutting end mill(or even ball nose) on that engraver at work?
Because you could reduce resistance significantly using either one of them at the same depth, and at the same time utilize the design's diamentions more efficiently.

Surely someone makes such a bit for that system.

What type of collet system does it utilize?
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Unread 04-11-2003, 08:11 AM   #17
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JD, FWIW, the block design does depend on the pump used. In your case, if yopu plan to stick to that little pump, I'd make the copper channels much deeper, instead of trying to trim the top.

Looking forward to Rev 4.0 testing!
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Unread 04-11-2003, 11:39 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by LiquidRulez
Jaydee, is it possible to use a small square cutting end mill(or even ball nose) on that engraver at work?
Because you could reduce resistance significantly using either one of them at the same depth, and at the same time utilize the design's diamentions more efficiently.

Surely someone makes such a bit for that system.

What type of collet system does it utilize?
It doesn't use collets. It is a top load lead screw type setup. Smallest end mill they make for it is .060" or roughly 1.5mm. And they are $35. Here is what they look like: http://www.antaresinc.net/FlutedRM.html Those are the endmill versions. .060 is is way to wide. I have a few bits here that have the same slope as the others but a wider cutting area on the bottom. I might give that a shot today if I have time.

Here are the regular ones which I use here. http://www.antaresinc.net/EngravingCuttersFrameset.htm

I need the 6 1/2" x 1/4" shank ones.
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Unread 04-11-2003, 11:41 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigben2k
JD, FWIW, the block design does depend on the pump used. In your case, if yopu plan to stick to that little pump, I'd make the copper channels much deeper, instead of trying to trim the top.

Looking forward to Rev 4.0 testing!
I can't make them deeper for 2 reasons. One the tops are already as pointed as they can get. If I go deeper it takes the tops of the channles with it. And 2 I am already down to near a 1mm left to the bottom of the block. Don't want to go much past that.
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Unread 04-11-2003, 12:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by LiquidRulez


JD...remind me again, what MB your taking your temps from?
8K7A+ reads from under the CPU. I tested it once against an external probe and they read 1C different. Still not as great as I would like but all I can use at the moment. If I had the cash I would send a final version to BillA. I still have a lot of tweaking. Planning on adding a O ring and pickup some Lexan. I might be able to talk the owners of this company to let me make and sell these parts to DIY'ers.
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Unread 04-11-2003, 07:34 PM   #21
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Got some cool stuff to show off tonight. I impressed myself today and that doesn't happen often. Look for a thread called "REV. 4.0/MicroChannel #3 (pics)".
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Unread 04-11-2003, 08:07 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by LiquidRulez
Tell that to the WW..

For Jaydee to add another channel, that is deeper would only serve to diminish the performance I think.....


the water will ALWAYS take the path of least resistance. Whether it be less resistance from length,width,or depth, it doesnt know the difference.
EDIT...........Oops. .....I misread what you said there Jfettig.

Though I will agree that he needs to open up those channels more.........Not necessarily deeper though.

What hes got going now, is simply amazing, considering the low amount of flow he has going through it.

I think he's on the right path with his train of "tweaking" thoughts.


Not to be snide or anything Jfettig...but do you have any practically applicable info based on designing,building and testing of a simular block or any blocks that youve made, that have done better than his block, (with such low flow.. dont forget), to base your suggestion on??
Just curious..


Jam up job there Jaydee

JD...remind me again, what MB your taking your temps from?
I have done a heck of a lot more making/testing/designing than anyone knows. I have... 3 waterblocks right now that are doing pretty sweet, one in aluminum that is outperforming a maze3(ACURATE TESTING) and another block to test(nothing special but got bored one day)

I have been doing a little cfd stuff too, just a small amount. I plan on doing more.
and the one thats outperforming the maze3, I dont have it optimizzed at all, neither jet nor the internals, I am still working on that, and getting the time and funds to make a newer copper one. I still have to pop it in my computer with a different jet to see what happens.

To make these channels 1/2inch wide means that jaydee hopes that the heat trancefers straight thru the copper, strait thru the other side to be picked up, but it doesnt, It spreads a little bit, so he has heat being built up on the sides, or heat that isnt being picked up.

Also, the heat wants to go farther than he is letting it by having such a thin base/channels, the heat, if it could would go up fins 2-3x that high wich would mean better cooling.

Jaydee, If you would let me suggest something, I would suggest you get some slitting saws or something, Mill those channels in some 1/4 copper, same depth, then cut down in the bottoms of them so its the same base thickness, and add another channel to the other side, I can gaurentee itll woop the one you have right now.

I dont know how much Information I should give out for free I dont want anyone making a waterblock thatll beat mine


Maybe Ill make a similar one with my tools when I get around to it. I can make .05" channels and make them angled at the tops...

basicly a WW clone, with a better jet, and coned tops where the water inlet is.


Jon
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Unread 04-11-2003, 08:33 PM   #23
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@JFettig...The heat in his channels is being picked up......just not efficiently with only 5 GPH of flow.

BTW.....you mentioned that your testing is accurate. What method do you use to make you come to the conclusion that its accurate?
I dont know of too many people who can get 100% accurate resullts........unless you're using BillA's rig

But he's on the right track, none the less.
Hes made a heck of alot of nice blocks, and getting better by the minute!

I wish I had acces to some of the equipement he does. I wouldnt last too long on that job.....be making more $hit for myself than the company!
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Unread 04-11-2003, 09:47 PM   #24
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as for acurate, I mean by +/-1c wich is really good. I use an 8k3a with the on die probe, air probe, and water probe, I graphed and made a linear regression modle to see that my ondie probe is only .1c off.

I think tomorow, Ill start on my cathar clone waterblock


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Unread 04-11-2003, 09:51 PM   #25
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http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=6317
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