So how tough would it to be to solder a copper top on this Maze3?

Jim · 04-20-2002, 04:56 PM

What do you think?
I am not to secure with the plastic lid.

How hard would it be to put a copper leak proof lid on the Maze3? I guess I need to get some copper bus bar somewhere to fit.

Jim

Jessfm · 04-20-2002, 04:59 PM

I sugest you take it down to someone to do.
By the time you purchased the flux/solder etc, you could have payed someone with the experience/skill to do a realy good job.
But why not just make a Copper cap and clamp it ?
It would solve the problems - and hassle, peace of mind too.

Jim · 04-20-2002, 05:15 PM

I have the flux and solder not sure if I can get enough heat from just propane though.

Clamping might be fine as an alternative.
JIm

MeltMan · 04-20-2002, 05:31 PM

You can get plenty of heat from a propane torch, depending on the solder you use. Just use plumbers solder. No big deal, the picture of the waterblock in my avatar is homemade by me and has a soldered top.

I did it this way
1. Put flux on both pieces
2. Clamp em together
3. heat
4. Put solder on the edges and it will flow everywhere you have flux.

It should be a fairly straightforeward operation. Just dont flux the middle.

Jim · 04-20-2002, 05:55 PM

Meltman-
Did you drill and tap to mount the barbs or did you solder those in also?
Jim

EMC2 · 04-20-2002, 07:01 PM

Jim - with the o-ring the Maze-3 has and the four hold down screws, you should be able to simply mount a copper top with the existing hold down screws without any need to solder or braze it to the block. (If you put a copper top on it, will that make it an DuraCell Maze3 ?

)

Brad · 04-20-2002, 07:38 PM

I know dden will read this thread within a day or two anyway, so lets just hope they'll sell it as an option...

arctic · 04-20-2002, 07:39 PM

Hi!

Just use the hot-plate in the kitchen! I have solder 2 waterblocks with this metod. It's perfect! On 1500-2000 watt, it takes about 2-3 minutes to heat up a big copperblock

Clean/lap both parts, and use flux. Then heat up the block, and put solder on it. Immediately when it melt, you remove it from the hot-plate with a steel ruler or someting thin. When it's cold, you lap(!) the solder-surface until it's flat and smoothly. (don't remove all the solder..

) Now you put the clean and fluxed top on the block, and place it on the hot-plate. Turn the heat on, and the solder, heat and gravity does it all! (Clamps is _NOT_ necessary!) remove the block wery careful away fom the hot-plate, when the solder is melted. Voila!

Jessfm · 04-20-2002, 07:44 PM

well if its any help, for the TEC versions of our block we made an Anodised Alu camp, but its still clamped.

Brad · 04-20-2002, 08:04 PM

nice idea arctic, have you had any issues with it at all?

I wonder what DDen use on their maze1/1c/2

arctic · 04-20-2002, 08:24 PM

@ Brad

What do you mean?
(Sorry, my english is bad

)

Brad · 04-20-2002, 10:16 PM

I mean have you had any problems with your method?

ambient · 04-20-2002, 10:32 PM

So i've read the other maze3 thread. Sounds as though the problem isn't really with the top being lexan its that they used a retesion method that blows..

why not instead of using a copper top just mod the existing lexan. For instance, get rid of the brass barbs, go with the nylon ones and drill the wholes out so they're like 3/4"(if space allows for it.) Then just use like power poxy or Loctite Gasket Eliminator 518 to mount the barbs and hold the top on, I bet you could really kick up the flow rate with larger barbs. All the cracks found on the m3 so far have been from radial pressure, if you just get rid of the pressure wouldn't that solve the problem? Don't know just my .02

sunblade · 04-20-2002, 11:16 PM

Well, as an alternative to soldering, you could try clamping a copper top down with the existing screw holes, and use a nice liberal application of plumbers goop to create a seal

I'm not sure how long plumbers goop would last, but the back of the package says it works on copper, so if anybody's feeling up to it, yeah...

Kevin · 04-21-2002, 03:14 AM

JB Weld?
-Kev

Jim · 04-21-2002, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad
I know dden will read this thread within a day or two anyway, so lets just hope they'll sell it as an option...

I am beginning to feel as though I will be thought of as a "finger pointer", "cry baby' and / or "trouble maker".

But computers can and have been a pain in the butt for me, especially when it comes to OS, drivers, and such. Heck I am still a rookie when it comes to keeping these things in sync.

I don't need to introduce a new problem causing variable. After all the system I have right now is my first and only build and the only machine I own. So when things go fritzy it upsets me here, I don't even have a back up to get on the Forums and ask for help.

My Maze2 couldn't be bettter, so if it ain't broke don't fix it applies here, but that's no fun.

I bought the Maze 3 mostly for my next build, but at the moment not enough bucks to buy all the parts I need.

My eyebrows really jumped up when I saw the post showing the cracks around the barbs.

Good idea posted about bolting on a copper top, I need to hunt up a piece of copper now. How hard is it to find a tap for the 1/2" barbs, need to look down in the basement, may have one but I doubt it.
Thanks for the input guys.
Jim

WebMasta33 · 04-21-2002, 09:21 AM

I don't understand why every says you need plumpers goop for sealing this up...

All you do, is drill out a copper plate to match the existing screw holes for the lexan top. The lexan is sealed by the lovly o-ring, so once you screw down the copper, it will be sealed as well.

Heck, you can:

--use the lexan top for a template of the screws and barb holes
--use the same screws and barbs from the lexan top.

So all you really need is the copper top.

That's just my take on it.

MeltMan · 04-21-2002, 11:39 AM

Yeah, I really do agree... A removable top would be nice to clean out any corrosion as it builds up.

BTW, my fittings are drilled, tapped, and teflon taped to ensure no leakey.

arctic · 04-21-2002, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad
I mean have you had any problems with your method?

No no, not at all

The only thing i have to be wary about, is when i remove the block from the hot-plate, because the melted solder makes the surface extremely slippery, almost like wet ice. And the top could go out of position, so you have to be fast and correct it, before the solder is set. On the other hand, i guess i don't need to move it from the hot-plate, before the solder is set. Just turn the heat off. But it will take about 4-5 minutes to cool down,(because of the big mass in the hot-plate) and i don't know if it's good for the solder, to be "melted" over several minutes?

Brad · 04-21-2002, 02:04 PM

I doubt the solder would really mind, if it was molten for extended periods of time then it might.

Jim, I know how that is, hardware is simple, it is easy to figure out how and why it happened. Windows however will never cease to amaze me with the number of new errors i can find on a regular basis

Jim · 04-21-2002, 05:57 PM

Brad-
Ain't that the truth?

At least I have more confidence now, than I did a year ago at this time, just before I started my first build.

When trouble starts, I stop breathe, step back, lay the .45 down, and try to take it slow. (no I wouldn't shoot myself- the hard drive)

Building your own is the only way to BEGIN to understand these boxes, well worth the effort in my opinion. Long way to go yet for me still at the "beginning" stage.

I may move up to Windows 2000 next build, go ahead and laugh, but I have heard it sucks for games. Not ready for XP yet.

Jim

MeltMan · 04-21-2002, 06:06 PM

Yeah, Build your own. I put together 4 by eighth grade (4 years ago) now ive lost count.

Before that, I was fighting DOS, not Windows. Trust me, windows does a lot that you dont see. Ever tried to set up a proprietary CD rom in dos? How about fighting conflicting IRQ's on a legacy ISA card. No, heres the best ever- Once upon a time, (when i didnt want to try and set up a coax network in dos), I copied windows 95 to floppy disks with pkzip! Haha, 35 disks, 4 dead that I had to remake, all because i was a broke middle schooler and had no $$ for a cd-rom.

I ran the beta of win95, you think you have bugs now... lol

Jim · 04-21-2002, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MeltMan
Yeah, Build your own. I put together 4 by eighth grade (4 years ago) now ive lost count.

Before that, I was fighting DOS, not Windows. Trust me, windows does a lot that you dont see. Ever tried to set up a proprietary CD rom in dos? How about fighting conflicting IRQ's on a legacy ISA card. No, heres the best ever- Once upon a time, (when i didnt want to try and set up a coax network in dos), I copied windows 95 to floppy disks with pkzip! Haha, 35 disks, 4 dead that I had to remake, all because i was a broke middle schooler and had no $$ for a cd-rom.

I ran the beta of win95, you think you have bugs now... lol

Ah, you kids. When I was in eighth grade I was building plastic model cars and racing H O "Aurora" electric cars. No, I didn't sniff the glue.

Well, at least plastics were out when I was young! LOL
Jim

EMC2 · 04-21-2002, 06:44 PM

Webmaster, thanks for reiterating what I said earlier

Don't know how all the soldering and gooping got into this, lol.

MeltMan · 04-21-2002, 07:04 PM

Its the fumes from the flux... AAAhhhhh, nothin like flux in the morning.

04-20-2002, 04:56 PM	#1
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	So how tough would it to be to solder a copper top on this Maze3? What do you think? I am not to secure with the plastic lid. How hard would it be to put a copper leak proof lid on the Maze3? I guess I need to get some copper bus bar somewhere to fit. Jim

04-20-2002, 05:31 PM	#4
MeltMan Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: KS Posts: 374	You can get plenty of heat from a propane torch, depending on the solder you use. Just use plumbers solder. No big deal, the picture of the waterblock in my avatar is homemade by me and has a soldered top. I did it this way 1. Put flux on both pieces 2. Clamp em together 3. heat 4. Put solder on the edges and it will flow everywhere you have flux. It should be a fairly straightforeward operation. Just dont flux the middle. __________________ MeltMan Lurker Supreme!

04-20-2002, 07:38 PM	#7
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I know dden will read this thread within a day or two anyway, so lets just hope they'll sell it as an option... __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

04-20-2002, 08:04 PM	#10
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	nice idea arctic, have you had any issues with it at all? I wonder what DDen use on their maze1/1c/2 __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

04-20-2002, 10:16 PM	#12
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I mean have you had any problems with your method? __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

04-20-2002, 04:59 PM	#2
Jessfm Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 110	I sugest you take it down to someone to do. By the time you purchased the flux/solder etc, you could have payed someone with the experience/skill to do a realy good job. But why not just make a Copper cap and clamp it ? It would solve the problems - and hassle, peace of mind too.

04-20-2002, 05:15 PM	#3
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	I have the flux and solder not sure if I can get enough heat from just propane though. Clamping might be fine as an alternative. JIm

04-20-2002, 05:55 PM	#5
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	Meltman- Did you drill and tap to mount the barbs or did you solder those in also? Jim

04-20-2002, 07:01 PM	#6
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	Jim - with the o-ring the Maze-3 has and the four hold down screws, you should be able to simply mount a copper top with the existing hold down screws without any need to solder or braze it to the block. (If you put a copper top on it, will that make it an DuraCell Maze3 ? )

04-20-2002, 07:39 PM	#8
arctic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 3	Hi! Just use the hot-plate in the kitchen! I have solder 2 waterblocks with this metod. It's perfect! On 1500-2000 watt, it takes about 2-3 minutes to heat up a big copperblock Clean/lap both parts, and use flux. Then heat up the block, and put solder on it. Immediately when it melt, you remove it from the hot-plate with a steel ruler or someting thin. When it's cold, you lap(!) the solder-surface until it's flat and smoothly. (don't remove all the solder.. ) Now you put the clean and fluxed top on the block, and place it on the hot-plate. Turn the heat on, and the solder, heat and gravity does it all! (Clamps is _NOT_ necessary!) remove the block wery careful away fom the hot-plate, when the solder is melted. Voila!

04-20-2002, 07:44 PM	#9
Jessfm Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 110	well if its any help, for the TEC versions of our block we made an Anodised Alu camp, but its still clamped.

04-20-2002, 08:24 PM	#11
arctic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 3	@ Brad What do you mean? (Sorry, my english is bad )

04-20-2002, 10:32 PM	#13
ambient Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 312	So i've read the other maze3 thread. Sounds as though the problem isn't really with the top being lexan its that they used a retesion method that blows.. why not instead of using a copper top just mod the existing lexan. For instance, get rid of the brass barbs, go with the nylon ones and drill the wholes out so they're like 3/4"(if space allows for it.) Then just use like power poxy or Loctite Gasket Eliminator 518 to mount the barbs and hold the top on, I bet you could really kick up the flow rate with larger barbs. All the cracks found on the m3 so far have been from radial pressure, if you just get rid of the pressure wouldn't that solve the problem? Don't know just my .02 __________________ water cooled 1.4 tbird @ 1580 143x11 vcore 1.88 vio 3.55

04-20-2002, 11:16 PM	#14
sunblade Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: USA Posts: 156	Well, as an alternative to soldering, you could try clamping a copper top down with the existing screw holes, and use a nice liberal application of plumbers goop to create a seal I'm not sure how long plumbers goop would last, but the back of the package says it works on copper, so if anybody's feeling up to it, yeah...

04-21-2002, 03:14 AM	#15
Kevin Slacking more than your weird uncle Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: San Diego, CA (UCSD) / Los Angeles, CA (home) Posts: 1,605	JB Weld? -Kev __________________ I used to throw hot coffee all over the ass of the horse there, then whip him while he was kickin' at me. Those f***in things are crazy.

04-21-2002, 09:21 AM	#17
WebMasta33 Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Nebraska Posts: 526	I don't understand why every says you need plumpers goop for sealing this up... All you do, is drill out a copper plate to match the existing screw holes for the lexan top. The lexan is sealed by the lovly o-ring, so once you screw down the copper, it will be sealed as well. Heck, you can: --use the lexan top for a template of the screws and barb holes --use the same screws and barbs from the lexan top. So all you really need is the copper top. That's just my take on it. __________________ ========== --Soyo KT333 DRAGON Ultra (Platinum Edition) --AMD 1.4 @ 1.54 (11x) --768mb of PC2100 (@140FSB) --Asus v8200 GeForce3 @ 210/490 --Maxtor 40gb Quiet + 2 IBM 40gb 60GXPs (removable) + 8gb WD --Audigy --Maze 3, DD Gf3 block, 2x BIX, Eheim1250 ===========

04-21-2002, 11:39 AM	#18
MeltMan Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: KS Posts: 374	Yeah, I really do agree... A removable top would be nice to clean out any corrosion as it builds up. BTW, my fittings are drilled, tapped, and teflon taped to ensure no leakey. __________________ MeltMan Lurker Supreme!

04-21-2002, 02:04 PM	#20
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I doubt the solder would really mind, if it was molten for extended periods of time then it might. Jim, I know how that is, hardware is simple, it is easy to figure out how and why it happened. Windows however will never cease to amaze me with the number of new errors i can find on a regular basis __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

04-21-2002, 05:57 PM	#21
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	Brad- Ain't that the truth? At least I have more confidence now, than I did a year ago at this time, just before I started my first build. When trouble starts, I stop breathe, step back, lay the .45 down, and try to take it slow. (no I wouldn't shoot myself- the hard drive) Building your own is the only way to BEGIN to understand these boxes, well worth the effort in my opinion. Long way to go yet for me still at the "beginning" stage. I may move up to Windows 2000 next build, go ahead and laugh, but I have heard it sucks for games. Not ready for XP yet. Jim

04-21-2002, 06:06 PM	#22
MeltMan Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: KS Posts: 374	Yeah, Build your own. I put together 4 by eighth grade (4 years ago) now ive lost count. Before that, I was fighting DOS, not Windows. Trust me, windows does a lot that you dont see. Ever tried to set up a proprietary CD rom in dos? How about fighting conflicting IRQ's on a legacy ISA card. No, heres the best ever- Once upon a time, (when i didnt want to try and set up a coax network in dos), I copied windows 95 to floppy disks with pkzip! Haha, 35 disks, 4 dead that I had to remake, all because i was a broke middle schooler and had no $$ for a cd-rom. I ran the beta of win95, you think you have bugs now... lol __________________ MeltMan Lurker Supreme!

04-21-2002, 06:44 PM	#24
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	Webmaster, thanks for reiterating what I said earlier Don't know how all the soldering and gooping got into this, lol.

04-21-2002, 07:04 PM	#25
MeltMan Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: KS Posts: 374	Its the fumes from the flux... AAAhhhhh, nothin like flux in the morning. __________________ MeltMan Lurker Supreme!

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