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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 10-30-2002, 01:34 PM   #76
nexxo
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OK, how about this pump...

Flow = 26 l/min or 414 GPH @ 3.3 ft. head ( = 0.1 bar = 10 kPa)

26 W (2.2 A) at 12 V (yessiree, just hook up to a molex!)

Dimensions: 17.7 cm L x 6.8 cm W. Weight: 0.53 Kg.

The pump is a Johnson CM30P7-1, physically identical to the Jabsco pump discussed elsewhere in the forum, but coloured all black, and a heavy-duty version (Johnson also make a lighter duty version with identical ratings to the Jabsco).

The only downside is price... $179,-- Ouch! Perfection costs...
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Unread 10-31-2002, 10:47 PM   #77
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Found Z series Iwaki pumps in a couple sizes and in both WMD & WD types.

www.deepseagallery.com/iwaki_pumps_and_parts.htm
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Unread 10-31-2002, 11:34 PM   #78
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Good find... I have had little luck finding those pumps for sale online. Those prices seem to be similar to the ones I've been quoted locally (converted to CAD of course).
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Unread 11-01-2002, 07:58 PM   #79
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Thanks

But this leaves me with the question of which of the Iwaki pumps I should get.

MD-30RLT = 510 Gph. @ 4' and head of 17.7' & 11.6 psi &115 watts

MD-30RLZT = 276 Gph. @ 4' w/head of 36.1' and 24psi & 115 watts

Which would give better performance in a system set up with 1/2" tubes and multiple WB and perhaps dual rads(funds allowing)?

Note: Better prices can be found pretty quick on the RLT type, but this is thus far the only site I've found for the Z series of Iwaki.
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Unread 11-01-2002, 11:16 PM   #80
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First off, you'd be better off with 3/4 tubing, with those kinds of flow. I'd pick the cheaper of the two: you're already up there, where more just isn't worth it.

Unless of course, you're putting together a test bench, in which case you'd want the bigger one, just in case some crazy fool puts together a very restrictive block that you can't test at the same flow rates as all the other ones.
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Unread 11-02-2002, 02:10 AM   #81
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I think BillA is the only one who could maybe tell you which pump would match, and when overkill is setting in, he's the only one who's had any practical experience with definining the boundries...

Ask him, PM him if he's shy , though I'd be very interseted in the answer...

Just make sure you do find out first ...
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Unread 11-02-2002, 12:50 PM   #82
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As "Mr Sunshine" said himself, 3 gpm is the top flow rate you should shoot for. Anything higher is overkill.
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Unread 11-02-2002, 01:33 PM   #83
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hey Ben
what's with the re-nameing ?
do I call you "dumb-as-a-fu*king-rock" ?

on-topic
go with the Zs, the 20 is probably sufficient
-> but pay for the MD, not the WMD (better motor, less noise)
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Unread 11-02-2002, 02:47 PM   #84
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There you go.

If you look at the chart that nikhsub1 posted on page two of this thread, you'll find the model 20 specs. click me to go to page 2 (see middle of page).


As for the re-naming, I was merely going along with what someone else wrote, following your out-of-place comment in this thread (see bottom). But hey, if you want to call me "dumb-as-a-fu*king-rock", go right ahead, it's a free country...
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Unread 11-03-2002, 07:59 AM   #85
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O(f)T: Hey!, can we call you Daafr (Daffer?) for short?, I have to type with two fingers and 'Dumb as a Fu#cking Rock' puts seconds x 60 (how do you spell minites?) on my post times ...

O(n)T: That would put the 20 series in the driving seat then would'nt it?, what's the best flow for rads?, was it 2.5GPM?, I never worked out (or forgot ) if the OC'ers article was updated with the revised graphs(?)...
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Unread 11-03-2002, 08:26 AM   #86
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there never is a 'best' to such questions,
there is however always a point of diminishing returns

2 is ok, 3 is rather good, I would question the cost/benefit of attempting 4

off topic, catchy acronym there (make me laugh if it stuck)
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Unread 11-03-2002, 10:44 AM   #87
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Play nice, boys.
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Unread 11-03-2002, 11:44 AM   #88
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I was'nt sure if the 30's were OK, I seem to remember someone saying 5GPM is the optimum for blocks(does depend on your veiw of PoDR's though), if that's so and the 'ideal' for rads is 2.5..., what can I say!, a match made in Heaven! ...

I would dearly love to see some benchies done for the latest rads and block, Cathars and Jess's for definate!, the BIX(&2) and the Deep2 as well...

PS, does anyone know the Wattage rating for the 20series?...

I'll have to learn how to do an Advanced Search, or filter Google...
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Unread 11-03-2002, 02:15 PM   #89
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The Z series Iwaki MD20 draws .53 amps.

Now this may sound like foolish questions with all that has already been covered in this thread, but I'm sitll not sure on some points.

Would the running of a second or thrid block in series make the MD-30Z pump a better option than the 20? Or put a differant way perhaps, is the 3 Gpm for ideal performance after allowing for all restrictions of a given system? I'm a complete noob, if this is after restrictions how do I come up with a "ballpark" figure of pump performance that I'll need?

I'm willing to spend what is needed to get the right things, but tight on money enough to have a real need to get as close as I can to right the first time.
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Unread 11-03-2002, 04:58 PM   #90
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With high flow pumps you don't want to run blocks in series unless they're 3/4" high flow uber-blocks connected to low heat output chips. Run them in parallel loops to hit each block with the coldest water possible. This is especially true with a high flow pump that can handle the resistance. It's a no-brainer.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 02:23 AM   #91
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I don't see it as a no brainer, if the pump can handle the restriction and maintain flowrate whats the problem?. parallel you're halfing the flow & pressure straight off. Will the CPU block perform better with half (depending on restriction of the 2 loops, the more restrictive the GPU/NB the more flow the CPU gets) 'half the flow/pressure' or 'thr restriction of series'. the temp difference is gonna be miniscule at those flowspeeds!...

Ask any dual CPU mobo owner if they run their CPU's in parallel...

I'd probly have a Y splitting the flow after the CPU if the GPU&NB were too restrictive, have the GPU&NB on one flow and leave the other open to keep system/CPU~flow/pressure up, then rejoin them before the rad(s). you won't get anything like optimum cooling for the GPU&NB but they don't need it...

Or maybe split the flow after the CPU so that one goes to the GPU and the other to the NB, then rejoin them before the rad(s) see which works best...

Last edited by MadDogMe; 11-04-2002 at 03:41 AM.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 10:04 AM   #92
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Excuse me for not clarifying, since that was a continuation of another thread in which the same question was asked and answered (disjointed conversation ... losing ... sanity ... help), but I had discussed offsetting the flow slowdown by changing the hose diameter. In a full 5/8" system, if the CPU was run at 1/2" and the GPU/NB was run at 3/8", it would put the majority of the water through the CPU block (as most GPU/NB blocks are quite restrictive). Overall, you'd probably see better systemwide results, especially with the crazy flow you'd get out of the Iwaki 30 series he's looking at. I suppose I should have clarified that. Since there will be more than enough flow for the CPU to get adequate cooling, you'd get better results in your GPU/NB cooling to have cold water hit them rather than warm. Granted, with the flow speeds he'll be seeing, there won't be a huge difference, but it would be better for him to take the best advantage of the situation, and also keep series restriction at a minimum, since that Iwaki will create a ton of heat (more than usual) if it's forced to fight a lot of resistance (lets face it, those pumps are made to flow), dumping more heat into his system.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 10:30 AM   #93
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My pump

ViaAqua 1300
1100 litres per hour
31watts
230/240v (aussie)

This pump is deisgned to be run submersed only, but i've found it can take running inline fine, at the expense of a bit of noise. It tends to humm and vibrate sitting inside my case, but is completely silent when submersed. Cheap - $55 AUD, approx $25 US
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Unread 11-04-2002, 11:52 AM   #94
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Blackeagle be sure not to buy an Iwaki that is designed for "maximum turnover" or circulation only...it is designed for max flow at near zero restrictions. Go with the one that has the highest static pressure especially if you are intending on going with multiple rads/WBs.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 12:44 PM   #95
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115 W for a pump? blackeagle, redo some thinking pls. i didn't and it cost me alot of $

switching from a 600lph - 10W - 1.5m head pump ... to a 1250 lph pump - 25W - 2m head pump did nothing to improve my temps...
u will need 1 heatercore (forget the BI) to cool the pump alone.

if u want, i can elaborate on the situ, why that pump won't serve u well, if u want i will...

BUT

from what i read from other posts, u r gonna get a atlantis block, and 2 deep rads in parallel. trust me anything above 1200lph will do next to no good.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 09:23 PM   #96
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g.l.amour,

I'd be interested in hearing your ideas very much.

While I'd like to have a sharp looking/eye candy system, I also want the best straight water cooled system I can devise. If a heater core(s) will offer better performance that the Abyss or BIE dual, or dual Deeps/BIE rads then so be it, they are the way to go. I've seen a heater core at overclockers hideout that is 6x6x2 and that size would allow for the fitting of duals as well as haveing pretty good looks as well. Would this offer the best performance? I have relized that a powerfull pump adds heat, but thought that by running in a series pump=rad(s)=W/Bs=res=pump would help offset the problem by having the rad between the pump and the W/Bs.

How could this best be set up, and how powerfull a pump can be run before you start losing ground due to the added heat of the pump?

Reason for the high psi pump is that while I intend to order a Atlantis, I also intend to order a block from Cathar. This won't be a waste as I'll be building a second system for my daughter once I get the first one done a squared away. The two blocks will both get a turn in my system, and the lesser in performance will go into the following build. Both seem to be good blocks, but I know that Cathars is highly restrictive compared to many and I thought this would be a good way to push the performance up.

Whew! ! One thing about this thread, you fellas have really made me give closer thought to differant aspects of what I'm doing. Not easy to figure out all the variables. Thanks again to all.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 09:38 PM   #97
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Further questions about rads & fans. Also one more about cooling loops.

This problem of noise from dual fans is only when they are run side by side, correct? Not when run on opposite sides of a rad in a push/pull configuratin, right?

Do the heater core type rads need/gain from a push/pull or is this unneeded?

How about if after the dual loops come off the differant W/Bs they were both routed to the res, this would save a Y while requireing a bit more tube length total. But would also allow me to then have a single return from the res straight to the pump using .75" tube, if I end up going with the high psi pump. Would this make for a good minimum restriction set up?

AS the Y that splits the flow from 5/8" to two other sizes of 3/8" and 1/2" will have to be a custom item how about if I made it like this a "offset or 1/2 Y. What I mean is, have the 5/8" and 1/2" lines in line with the 3/8" line going of at a slant from the main lime of flow. this would hopfully incourage max flow to the 1/2" line bound for the CPU where it will be needed most. Thoughts? Do little touches like this help much? Or am I off base, due to back pressure evening things out regardless of efforts to stear things in a prefered direction.


MadDog,

Remember the modding discussed in regard to Danger Den blocks? If I split the flow just before the blocks but run 3/8" to the NB and Gfx it might be neat to do the insides of both of them with the dimpled "floor" ect. Thoughts?

Last edited by Blackeagle; 11-04-2002 at 09:50 PM.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 10:04 PM   #98
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A bit off topic, but I wanted to say this anyways:

I agree that you should not just blindly buy a powerful pump without carefully considering how it will impact your overall system performance. I did that myself when I got started, even though I tried to select a pump that was adequate for my target flow and resistance... man, did I ever underestimate the resistance from the tubing . It took me quite a while to adapt my system to make the best use of the pump I bought. However, now that I have fine tuned everything I feel that I have a quite robust setup that packs a bit more punch than most out there. I think that the key for all those who are interested in using a pump that's more powerful than the Eheims or ViaAquas is to understand that the pump really is only one component in a system which needs to be carefully built to maximize any gains and minimize potential problems. Sure, anyone can buy the "standard" set of parts that 99% of the folks buy because they're "the best" parts... whatever. Their performance will be roughly the same as everyone elses online... to me that's not a whole lot of fun. That's not meant to put anyone down mind you... hell, I'm using a retail block myself (until I get one of Cathar's blocks that is ). However, part of enjoying the hobby is to experiment (or theorize, or machine, or whatever) because that's the thing about the hobby that makes it fun for those of us who enjoy it. If that means spending some money, then so be it, even if the money is "wasted". I guess what I am trying to say is understand what you are trying to build before you make any purchase towards your final setup. Remeber, the added pump heat is nothing that an extra large heatercore (or two) can't handle.

Just my $0.02... anyone got change for a loonie?
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Unread 11-05-2002, 02:08 AM   #99
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/off topic

well blackeagle, most important would be to go over all bill adam's work, again and again. until you get a grasp of the most important parameters for your system.

the flow resistance of the HC's is something to look out for.
best compromise seems bigmomma's , as the serc can be quite elusive. i think it was mfpmax who found heatercores new being made in mexico or something, then u could basically get the size or sizes that fit your case best.

next would be the block, u would want something with the least flow resistance per performance possible. such blocks will perform better and better with more powerfull pumps. again, this can be found in bill a's graphs.

as a pump, if u want to go with iwaki, take one with alot of head and not so much flow, because the actual flow u will be getting will be way less than the max flow given by the mfgr. i would try to go with the ones in the 40W range. looking at power consumption alone they should be packing double the punch of an eheim 1250.

if u can, avoid using a full tower, try to go with a cube style case. you will be able to keep all the cooling components much more at the same level. this should reduce the length of tubing some + reduce the created headloss alot. dont us 90'z, get some si tubing for tight bends (avoid where possible).

/off topic
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Unread 11-05-2002, 02:13 AM   #100
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I still say if your system/pump can't stand the *ED*back*IOT*pressure to split the flow after the CPU, the CPU is the important part. don't go taking flow/pressure from it if there's not enough to go round...

Use an equal T or Y after CPU to split one flow to GPU&NB and one flow to be open to keep up flowrate, then relink them with another Y or T...

Anything but putting the CPU in a parallel loop!...

Last edited by MadDogMe; 11-05-2002 at 02:28 AM.
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