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09-29-2004, 02:23 PM | #51 | |
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09-29-2004, 02:25 PM | #52 | |
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09-29-2004, 02:26 PM | #53 |
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hmm, maybe it is just my cheap one?
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09-29-2004, 03:12 PM | #54 | |
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#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 hard to make it out but that is a turbulator in that last pic inside the oil cooler. |
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09-29-2004, 03:24 PM | #55 | |
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lets fill the same equation with the parameter of a typical watercooling sys: Delta T= Q *(L/K), L means the thickness of the tube, and K means the conductive coefficient of the material of the tube, copper is 401 and aluminum is 237 and brass is only 109; given the Q is up to 150Watt and thickness is .5mm; then Delta T will be .000187 for copper and .000316 for aluminum, and .000688 for brass, And then we must divide our initial answer by the tube area, which is up to hundreds times comparing to the die area of the Athlon 0.000117 m^2(=117 mm^2), given the total tube area for a single HC(15*15*5cm) is at least 13(tubes' No.)*3.5cm(atual tubes' width not 5cm)*15cm(tubes' length), result of the tube area is .0682m^2, up to over 600 times of the die area of the Athlon, so check the Delta T now, .00274c for copper and .00463c for aluminum and .001c for brass. all of above is only math calculating, we still need to count some other factors, such as the temp diff of the liquid inlet and outlet of the rad, but as we know from BillA's rad test and others' article like Joe Citarella of overclockers, the temp diff between in and outlet is minors. so basically we can safely drive a conclusion , brass tube will not be beaten by alot. Forgive me if I miscalculate above. |
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09-29-2004, 03:33 PM | #56 | |
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One thing wrong with this calculation is it ignores the soldering of the tubes to the fins on brass/copper cores. I would assume the solder joint would act something like the TIM joint on CPU's making the heat transfer less efficent. It would seem to me the Aluminum cores may have a more efficent joint being it is an all aluminum and bonded joint (I think anyway). |
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09-29-2004, 03:45 PM | #57 | |
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Aaron Spink |
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09-29-2004, 03:47 PM | #58 | |
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Jaydee, I said that is not important only wanna prove brass is not a loser when acting as the tube in a rad comparing to copper and aluminum, even it has a 1/4 conductive K of copper, that is all. However there is still some space to choose another metal with a lower conductive K according to my calculation, of cource at first make sure all we talk about is the big or huge rad. |
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09-29-2004, 03:49 PM | #59 | |
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There is a big difference between the two I think everyone hasn't looked at. Aluminum will allow for greater surface area and is stronger than you could do with copper tubing. Aluminum allows for a thinner flat tube than copper which makes use of the available surface area better and increased turbulance inside the flat tube. The pic that JD posted of one cut in half will show this. The normal/old copper heater core tubes will not be as flat of a tube. Not to forget the weight between the two. Aluminum rad of the same size of the copper one will perform just the same as the copper and be lighter, cheaper. This is why auto manufactures tend to use Aluminum rads these days. If you look at the pro-performance auto rad manufactures, The aluminum rads are bigger, thicker and have tons more surface area than the copper one of the same weight. They also cool alot better just based on that but you pay an arm and a leg for one. But, we're talking about two different markets. I wouldn't want to buy an Aluminum rad for my pc and run 50/50 or more just for corrosion protection. Me personally, would like to see a pc rad of copper based on Cathar's and a few other's post. http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...light=radiator I would go as far as saying introducing turbulance inside the copper tubing - although it's an expense of pressure drop. More food for the gander. http://www.thermal-management-testin...issipation.htm .05 in.H2O is about as good as you will get with an axial fan - if your lucky. |
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09-29-2004, 03:56 PM | #60 |
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the current mfgn method for both copper/brass and alu is furnace brazing
I have been led to understand (no data !) that the thermall resistance of the brazed joint is lower than the soldered one - a lot to due with thickness of the solder 'TIM' |
09-29-2004, 03:58 PM | #61 | |
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09-29-2004, 04:08 PM | #62 | |
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That article says the AL radiators are alloy. That kinds throws the calculations to hell. Wonder what the thermal properties of that alloy is.. Last edited by jaydee116; 09-29-2004 at 04:13 PM. Reason: Changed HC to radiator |
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09-29-2004, 04:09 PM | #63 | |
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but I still wonder which rad is the ideal rad of Cathar, I can't find that thread. |
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09-29-2004, 04:35 PM | #64 |
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thin, low fin density
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09-29-2004, 05:12 PM | #65 |
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I think I finally found the thread. http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10000
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09-29-2004, 05:25 PM | #66 | |
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I found this extremely interesting. I like the sound of a single pass thin rad that the fan can be utilized more efficently to make up for the lack of thickness. Pretty sure that's what he is getting at. That would be much closer to my opinion of a rad designed spacifically for PC water cooling. Should get less noise with more airflow aswell!
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09-29-2004, 05:32 PM | #67 |
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and this is the intent of the BI Pro series, a la HW Labs
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09-29-2004, 05:44 PM | #68 | |
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09-29-2004, 05:47 PM | #69 | |
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The main problem I have with current rads is they are not computer friendly as far as mounting. Swiftechs Rad Box helps to some degree but having that thing stick out the back of the case as demonstrated on Swiftechs website isn't a desirable thing for me. I would much rather it be easily fitted inside the case somehow. Can't always get what you want though. |
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09-29-2004, 05:52 PM | #70 |
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6#s of sh*t in a 5# bucket
if the rad cannot be mounted via the fan, it will always be a chore custom cases are the answer, but the bling bling makes it impossible to 'select' a case for all |
09-29-2004, 05:58 PM | #71 | |
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09-29-2004, 06:03 PM | #72 | |
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but the elephant walks where it will |
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09-29-2004, 06:03 PM | #73 |
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Yes - I would love to see some custom water-cooling cases.
A cavity at the bottom of the case with 3 x 12cm fan mounts along each side. Can stick in a BI I/II/III, along with 1/2/3 12cm fans as suits the user's budget/needs. A real opportunity there. Make it so the rads can be mounted on either side so the case can be positioned with the fans pointing away from the user to muffle fan noise, and rads facing the user so the user can always see if the rads are getting clogged with dust, and easily cleaned. Could happily fit all that inside a mid-tower sized case, being effectively a midi-tower chamber atop the radiator enclosure in the bottom. Would have room for the pump in the bottom too. As usual, the custom case crowd does make things somewhat difficult though. |
09-29-2004, 06:37 PM | #74 | |
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09-29-2004, 11:02 PM | #75 | |
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