Proposed 1st WC setup

[Elcs]

Ive posted on this boards quite a while ago about making my own watercooled system. I may have the funds to do so soon so I would like to try and organise some sort of parts list so I can check for prices.

I live in the UK so most things are probably not sold here.

Ive decided on the Ehiem 1250 pump. Expensive but it seems to be the best all rounded pump available.

I would like to cool the cpu, my geforce4 and my northbridge. The graphics and chipset are a target to kill the small fans and noise. Benefits from cooling these parts with water I have heard are rather minimal past the reduction in sound. Ive mainly looked at Dangerden blocks especially the Maze3 and Maze3-1. Any other recommendations on waterblocks and what is the difference between the Maze3 and Maze3-1?

Next comes Radiators. Im 100% i couldnt make a half decent shroud for a heatercore myself so Im thinking of a radiator with a shroud on. Ive been looking at the Black Ice Xtreme radiator. There is also the OCPC Neptune 'The Deep' on one of the sites Ive been looking at. Are these any good? Any special revision or improvement Id need to look for if these are good?

Also, do I need a resevoir? Im still relatively learning and Ive got plenty of time to learn if you can teach

Id appreciate some more information on this subject. Pictures nd advice would be gratefully received.

[redleader]

Don't bother watercooling the NB. It doesn't even need a fan, so theres no point in using water. If you got a board with an active sink, just slap a passive sink on it.

I've heard the black ice radiators tend to need louder fans because of how compact they are. Thats something to keep in mind.

Making a shroud is really easy if you have plans. I have a set for a 10*6 radiator and I just printed it out, traced it onto aluminium, and cut along the lines.

[Elcs]

I thought that the EPoX 8RDA+ NB was a nice little heat producer when overclocking to 200 FSB.

Shroud would be easy to make with plans? If you say so. I have my doubts.

10*6 size radiator? is that in inches?

I want to make this a totally internal WC system so at the minute, I couldnt give you a size for where I'd pop my radiator as Im working on getting a new and larger case. Id assume that popping the radiator down in a spot near a fan so air could be blown onto it would be a good idea. I was thinking of putting it right at the front of the case so that I could use 1 or 2 front case intake fans to draw air from external to the case onto the radiator.

[Puzzdre]

8RDA+ IS a heat producer, at least mine is, and with stock hs and a small 60 mm fan on 7V over it, I cannot go further than 192 stable. So if you want to hit 200+, watercooling the NB is a good idea.

Shroud is really not so hard to make, choose the material you're familiar with, and with some duct tape, it won't look SOOO ghetto, and can be called half-decent . Tin sheets are good, and you won't break them while folding, and you don't have to solder the shroud if you have the tape. Another good material is plexy, you can saw all the pieces you need and glue them together, or try to fold the shroud (little bit harder to do, and more ghetto in my experience) like this:
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...one+for+my+bro

This shroud was sawed from one piece of 2 mm thick plexy, and heated carefully with cigarette lighter along the folding lines. Bad thing is that corners are not *exactly* straight, but nothing that some duct tape cannot solve. I tried silicone, but it looked more ghetto than tape...


Good luck!

[Elcs]

I understand the function of most of the parts of a Watercooling system so far but what leaves me stunned is how they are setup.

When I first looked inside a pc, my Cyrix 200 (RIP you PoS), I was amazed at how complex it all was. Now with watercooling, Im feeling the same.

My main gap in understanding comes from the Radiator. As far as Ive thought, it sits there with water flowing through it being cooled down by a fan. Are there any more things I need to know about this? Fan direction, usual placement inside of a case, cleaning directions etc..

I also know little about a Resevoir. I know what one is but what is its use and what are the pros and cons of using one? would it be a good idea to have one in my system being the 1st time using a WC setup.

Ive heard about dry testing. Setting up the whole system with water running though it before it is installed into place in the PC and Id definately use this technique before letting the parts even into my room.

Can someone list all the items Id need? down to tubing etc.. No need to be brand or product specific.

Sorry if I seem a bit newbie or overenthusiastic but I want to learn as much as I can from other peoples experiences.

Edit: I thought of another thing I am concerned about... *condensation*. Does any condesation form in the normal WC setup? How is avoided or is it not given the chance to form?

[Elcs]

After a short spell of looking around, I found out that the Maze 3-1 is a Maze3 but with a Cold Plate for the attachment of a Peltier (50mm x 50mm max)

After looking at the Peltier/TEC forum, it looks a lot more scary than Watercooling. I am wondering whether I should get the Maze 3-1 and in the future, I could put a Peltier on the bottom of it but Im unsure as to whether this is possible.

With a Peltier and WC in my system, I realise id need some external power. Would I be correct in assuming that the pump would come with its own Power lead and plug in like a normal household item and that Id need some sort of special power equipment for the Peltier?

I still have serious concerns about condesation or any other water-related problems. As Ive mentioned, Id set the system up without being hooked up to my PC so that I could see any leaks or problems.

Ive also had a check on Dangerdens and Ive put together a little idea of what Id be assuming would be good enough for what I need.

All with 1/2" fittings
Ehiem 1250 - $68.00
Maze 3-1 Copper top - $61.00
226W Peltier Potted 50mm x 50mm - $30.00
GF4 WB w/ 8 Ramsinks + artic alumina epoxy - $75.00
10 ft Tygon 1/2" tubing - $29.00
4oz Water Wetter - $3.50
Z-Chip WB - $39.50

Taking the advice from above, Im looking into Heatercores and making my own shroud. Not sure about the Peltier setup. No fans have been included as Im guessing that I need to know the size of my case and Heatercore before I can definately say. Going to mail Dangerden.com when I finalise what Im aiming for off their site. Hope shipping doesnt cripple me.

Any comments, advice, criticisms or fun poking accepted.

[JSimmons]

I found a supplementary powerr supply that fits in a 5-inch drive bay, and is designed to power TECs.

It's kinda pricey ($120), but it's all setup for what you might need, and won't steal room that could otherwise be used for your radiator and other water cooling stuff.

I'm new at this stuff myself, so I'm not really sure if a reservoir is necessary, or how much good it does to have all that extra water in the system.

[Myten]

redleader speak for yourself
my NB peaks almost 70°C with my P4 2.4 @ 3.5 with an active FSB @ 193. and this with an old alpha PEP66 (bent out fins) and a 92mm zalman pointing towards it. its burnin! WC necessary if youre looking for high FSB's. at 133 passive cooling is sufficient but at 200+ forget about it!

[airspirit]

If you are even CONSIDERING peltier cooling I would highly recommend the Maze 3 block. Currently I'm using one and the pelt pieces are in my wife's jewelry box in case I decide to use them. Having a block custom designed for it will save you money and headaches in the future if you decide to go down that road.

Notice I said the FUTURE. Before you consider advanced cooling, you want to be VERY comfortable with standard watercooling and learn its quirks. People that ignore that advice normally end up causing massive damage to their system, not so much out of stupidity but out of a lack of understanding of what they are doing. Give yourself about six months before taking the next step.

Rule 1: Keep everything 1/2".
Rule 2: Keep everything COPPER. Al = bad. Cu = good. Nothing in your system should contain ANY aluminum.

As far as construction, designing a watercooling system is extremely simple. You need three key components to make it work: a radiator, a waterblock, and a pump.

Your choice of the Eheim pump is a good one, and will pay for itself in the simplicity of setup. Many of the cheaper ones are pieces of crap, regardless of how many of my peers here use them and love them. Once you use a real pump, you'll throw rocks at the cheapies.

Your choice of a waterblock is also a good one. While it isn't the best performer out there, it is a very simple block to install and not too expensive. I would highly suggest purchasing a copper top to replace the acrylic one, though, since some people have had leakage problems with those (yes, I am using one now, and out of a massive cooling array it is the one part I worry about). Installation is through the four mounting holes on your board, and it is a very simple task to put it on. Your NB waterblock is up to you, as long as its copper, and your GF4 block is an area that I'm unfamiliar with, though I believe Danger Den has blocks for those as well. Those two blocks will probably be 3/8" rather than 1/2" like the standard block, and that is perfectly okay (for reasons I'll get to later).

As far as the radiator goes, you want to find one that has two qualities: good performance, and a size that will fit your case. If it won't fit, it won't work. First, measure your case and find what size core would work for you. THEN look for a radiator. You may also want to consider using a heatercore, but being new to watercooling sticking with a plug-and-play (hehe) radiator is probably best.

As far as the other components that make a watercooling system work, you have multiple options, these being the fan(s), tubing, and reservoir/airtrap.

Using 120mm fans is always recommended so your radiator can breathe. My first shroud was cardboard from a cereal box duct taped into a tube connecting my BIX to my 120mm fans. As stated above, you could glue plexi or bend tin to make an equally useful shroud. You want to have the fan pulling through the radiator so that cold air from outside of the case is being pulled in through it if possible.

I would recommend either Clearflex 60 or Tygon tubing for your system. It is more resilient to wear than cheap vinyl tubing, and it is much more flexable with less likelyhood of kinking. You will need both 1/2" and 3/8" tubing for your project. You will also need hose clamps for attaching it to the barbs. I always wrap the last inch of my tubing with duct tape (after installation) to protect it from damage when tightening the clamps (or you risk cutting the tubing).

Nearly any made to order res/airtrap will work, though you might want to read some reviews as some are prone to leaking over time. The purpose is to bleed the system of air and add coolant.

Your construction order should be as follows (purists please don't attack this, as it truly is the simplest for a n00b, and is arguably the most effective arrangement for his purposes): radiator -> res/airtrap -> pump -> T junction -> (A) and (B)

(A) -> 1/2" loop to CPU Block -> (C)

(B) -> 3/8" loop to GPU Block -> northbridge block -> (C)

(C) -> T junction -> radiator

This will create two parallel loops with your CPU block receiving most of the flow while still providing your GPU and NB blocks with adequate flow to function. The 1/2" loop is in 1/2" tubing, and the 3/8" loop is in 3/8" tubing (clarification). The tubing between your res and the pump should be as short as possible, and should use the strongest tubing available. I recommended Tygon/Clearflex earlier, but I would recommend braided thickwall vinyl tubing here, since it is least likely to collapse under pressure from the pump. Collapse is most likely going to happen at this point in the system, and could cause massive component damage. Just do it.

Once constructed, you need to worry about coolant. I would recommend that you use distilled water in conjunction with an anticorrosive additive such as Water Wetter, Purple Ice, or Hyperlube. I use Hyperlube myself. Mix it in about 10% concentration in the water. This will lower temps, prevent algae growth (this is NASTY!), and prevent the minor corrosion that can still occur in all copper systems.

Setting up your pump is up to you. Many of us just plug them in the wall seperately from the PC. Others use a relay. For the nonelectrically inclined, I would recommend a premade relay kit. These can be bought all over the place (see the above posts). Personally, I like having it on a seperate plug independant of the PC, since when you are filling your system you do NOT want your PC to be on. This allows you to plug and unplug the pump at will. Just don't forget to plug it in when you turn on your computer!

The dynamics of a watercooling system are relatively simple to understand. The pump keeps the water circulating. The water block(s) remove heat from the chips and transfer it to the water, and the radiator transfers the heat from the coolant to the air. You are basically moving heat from one place to another ... not too much to understand, really.

That tutorial should get you well on your way. All of the radiators you listed are decent enough ... just ensure you get one that fits your case, and remember that bigger is almost always better.

[Elcs]

Very informative post, albeit a lot to take in 1 one reading.

Checking the Dangerden.com and the best looking UK supplier I have in my list, they sell the GF4 Waterblocks and NB blocks with 1/2" barbs and not the 3/8" ones so that is not an issue.

At the moment, the only question I can think of is what is the resevoir used for?

Ill be re-reading this post a few times tonight to absorb all the information and see whats what.

Thanks for the help. Ill post any more questions I have when I think of them

[airspirit]

Reservoirs/air traps are exactly what they sound like: they store excess coolant and allow air bubbles a place to escape your cooling loop. Bleeding a closed system dry is extremely difficult to do. Using a res/at, you can fill it, run the pump for a few seconds, fill again, run, ... until you have a filled system. Then you just run it for an hour or so and all the air trapped in your lines and components get trapped in the res. Air bubbles in your system can reduce performance drastically, and can damage your pump over time, so making sure they are removed from your system is very important.

[Elcs]

How was your BIX?

Redleader mentioned the possible need for loud fans to keep the radiator working the way its supposed to. Reading this UK suppliers site it said this about the BIX

Note: Fans used on the Blackice radiators MUST have a free airflow rating of 100 cfm or more and a static pressure capability of at least .12 inwg to achieve the rated performance

100 cfm is quite high although I found a YS Tech 120mm fan 2600 rpm at 105 cfm. Also a 120mm Panaflo, 2750 rpm with 114.7, 45.5 dB. Would these still be rather quiet?

I would like a system as silent as I can get it. Currently, Id like to place my radiator inside my case under the HDD cage. The BIX would fit however I think I should probably get a larger case and a larger radiator then the BIX to allow 2 quiet fans to be stuck in. Although I could always get a HDD cage to pop my HDD into the 5" bays then remove the HDD cage. That could allow for a larger radiator.

When talking about your BIX, you said '120mm fanS', I thought that the BIX was a single-fanned radiator. If I am correct, how were your fans arranged to improve performance?

[airspirit]

When I said fan(s), I was referring to putting them in push/pull configuration. One fan would be pushing air into a 1" shroud that attaches to the radiator and another one would be 1" out on the other side pulling air out. It increases air flow and decreases temps. Typically, this is noisier, though it allows you to run the two fans at lower voltage for an equal amount of air flow allowing you to get equal performance at lower noise levels in the end if you use the right fans.

The BIX is an acceptable radiator, however it doesn't do as good a job of cooling as many of the others out there simply because of its small size. When you compare it to something like the OCPC Abyss, however, the greater size of the Abyss will allow it to run much more efficiently, though you'll have to find a place to mount it. BIX is acceptable because of its size, though if you are looking for sheer performance, it is not the best way to go. Plus, they are awfully fragile, and the paint comes off if you look at them wrong. If you can mount an Abyss, go for it, because with multiple blocks you will want all the cooling you can get ... besides, you can mount two fans pulling through it which is very nice.

As for mounting of such a beast, if you have a full tower you may be able to do it if you remove the HDD cages (you can find the 5" adapters for installing them in the upper bays), and you could possibly install it in the front of the case. This is something, though, that you will have to check for yourself.

[Elcs]

Does it matter where I physically place the pump, radiator or resevoir?

To maintain the simplest setup as you suggested earlier, Im probably going to need some severe rearrangement of my components.

Looking at it, Im probably going to have to concede and get a Full Tower. That way, I can fit everything where I want it and can get an Abyss. Having the bigger radiator Id assume is like having a bigger heatsink. You can strap a slower and quieter fan on so you get the same cooling at quieter noise level.

This total setup is more costly than I initially thought it would but its better than losing my hearing caused by some kind of large Delta fan. I initially assumed that about £200 would cover the system but now Im looking at over £300.

Time will tell, by the time Im ready mentally, the price may have dropped

[airspirit]

The airtrap should always be on top if possible, with no high points in your system for air to get trapped in. If you have enough flow, however, you can push trapped air out of your system (my preferred method). Otherwise, it doesn't really matter where everything is as long as it fits in your case and the radiator is pulling cold air in from the outside.

[mad mikee]

No pelt but nforce2 board w/the toaster oven chipset. (DO SOMETHING about the SB on the board, mine runs at 65+C (measured NB at about 55-60c)). Until I make my own wb, using swiftech wb for cpu / gpu + DD NB and piece of old copper skived hsf for SB.

If funds permit, look for Chenbro SR103 case (about 180$us, lots of room to work w/). The only way a BIX will handle everything you want to throw at it would require LOTS of AIR (read noisy) I will have 1 heater core for the CPU (8"h x 5.5"h) and a 6" square for the GPU + NB.

Unless you find just the thing, tupperware is your friend for air-trapping (only need about 2-3" diameter, attach one end to the pump intake (inline - see Ph's article about maximizing flow on front page) and other side to radiator).

The loop is only about 1m total for this side so I am going for turbulence in the CPU wb so pump -> wb -> radiator -> res/airtrap/pump. Pump/res will sit on sorbothane mat on bottom of case. Rad sits in front w/ 2 Panaflo H1A 120mm fans drawing into case (lower speeds w/ controller but will push any warm air through case fast enough so as not to add significant heat to rest of the system)

That's enough for now, when I get done will borrow a digital camera to show the world my creation. (Gotta go make the shroud for the rad above in card board for a template to make in AL sheet and learn about the rivet tool....)