Possible Anti-Condensation gels...

[jtroutma]

I just got my 85W pelt in the mail and my cold plate to freeze my Radeon 9700. I am in the "Experimental" phase of this project and am looking for a quick method of preventing condensation from DAMAGING my board.

I heard that I could use petrolium jelly to prevent the condensation from making contact with the electrical circutry....
Is this true? If not, is there some other type of gel that I could use.

My initial idea is to coat the inside of the chip "housing" with a thin layer of gel, coat the general proximity of the board around the chip, and coat the back side and surrounding area of the board.

This will NOT be a permanent solution; just one for maybe an hour or two of testing to find out what kind of core clocks that I can get and then look into getting the proper insulation.

Thanks for the replys in advance.

Please remember that I am relatively new to the pelt department

[bigben2k]

Yes, petroleum Jelly is fine. It's a cheap substitute to dielectric grease.

I think that the main concern would be filling the gap between the GPU and board, if there is one. Personally, I'd use a syringe to fill that gap, but maybe you only need to cover the pins, dunno.

Otherwise, you're looking at the usual neoprene (front and back), once you've put the conformal coating on the relevant areas. You might want to re-read Joe's article.

[megatron]

The only problem with vaseline is that it will run if the area gets warm but its not a problem unless you don't notice its running and end up with no protection.

I would not run without neoprene. It is part os the condensation protection but also you will get better temps with it since it acts to focus the cold, and not let it escape.

[Since87]

You can get dielectric grease at auto parts stores.

It is used with spark plug wires.

[megatron]

Really petrolium jelly is the consistancy that you need to build up and fill gaps. The dielectric grease I bought from an auto store was not of the correct consistancy, stupidly I used it and paid the consequences. I am not sure I thelubrex grease most overclocking stores sell is any better than vaseline or where to get it apart from online overclocking stores.

[bigben2k]

So in your experience, you'd recommend Petroleum jelly?

[megatron]

Originally posted by bigben2k
So in your experience, you'd recommend Petroleum jelly?

Unless lubrex grease is any more permanent. Yes. The vaseline runs in hot temps, like next to the voltage regulators. Its the volume and mouldability (like clay) that you're looking for, with the electrically insulating properties too. My mistake was to not cover the CPU pins and socket. Also use petrolium jelly on the raised part of the socket with neoprene. Along with the usual areas - the back under the socket, 1"+ around the socket with vaseline and then build the neoprene up with layers cut to fit the socket.

Edit: I am talking from experience of CPU pelting not GPU pelting.

[bigben2k]

I think you posted almost enough info to write up an article...

[joemac]

Try mixing petroleum jelly with glue (Elms) and let it dry. Let me know if this works for you. The jelly works fine on its own, I have tried that and yes it runs when heated the glue may stop that any takers .

[megatron]

Marine sealant works a treat but how are you going to RMA it?

[jtroutma]

Well, I certinally got my responces

I want to use petrollium jelly by itself because IF something DOES happen, I can carefully remove the jelly with a tooth brush and may still be able to get an RMA.

Also If I dont get decent results with this pelt, they why in heck would I want to keep it on there perminately? I am really wanting 400+ on this core and preferably 340-350 on the mem.

Soo far this one card has been a dissapointment so I am hoping for much better.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I will probably being this expereiment in about 2 weeks or so.

SO keep the suggestions coming!

[megatron]

Not really listening are you? You will have to RMA your card if you do not properly insulate it using neoprene and vaseline. At the end of the day its up to you though. Even if you are thinking of RMAing simply to get a better clocking card. Don't break it when its not on purpose, OK?

[jtroutma]

Excuse me?????

I never said that I was INTENTIONALY going to kill the card OR RMA it just to get a better one....

My only hopes are to TEST the card in such a case.... 1 hour about and constantly watching the card to see if condensation builds up....

Once I determine that it is WORTH it to keep the pelt on there THEN!!! will I get the neoprene.

Other wise thank you for your insightful thoughts...

I could not help but be somewhat offended by your response....it could be because I am tired right now.

[megatron]

I am quite offended that after asking for advice you still will not take it! It does not matter in the slightest how long youleave it testing. If you get past the first minute then there is no risk until you turn it on again. My cpu was fried when I turned on after running for two days.

If you were taking this seriously you would not risk this. If you are not banking on RMAing the card if you "test it" and then break it you would not be considering this. What is a few pounds or dollars compared to the cost of a radeon 9700?

I know I am not winning you over here. I think I over stayed my welcome already.

At the end of the day I wish I never offered my advice now that I see you think you know better. I am just sorry I cant take it back.

[bigben2k]

This is getting out of hand...

I think Jtroutma can do his experiment without permanently damaging the card. If he wants to go through the expense of exchanging it, that's up to him.

If the card is damaged as a result of this, it would be ethically wrong to return it as defective: it was effectively, intentionally damaged. It would be similar to buying a car, crashing it into a tree (on purpose), then returning it to the dealership because it's "defective"...

Otherwise, it's up to the retailer to make that assesment.

What Megatron is saying here is that the petroleum jelly is only part of the solution. The neoprene is the other part. Not using both parts is very likely to damage the card. That's like crashing the car into a tree, and not putting on a seatbelt...

[jtroutma]

Megatron:

Wait! You actaully just gave me some of the best advise! Seriously.

Ok, if I am reading that correctly, as long as I dont shut the system down between tests I should be alright with this setup?

My original plan was to simply put this thing together using petroleum jelly for an hour of constant testing (no power downs) and see how it comes out. Then clean up the card and run it without the pelt until I get some neopreen to properly protect it against the condesation that WILL build up.

Call me stupid right now but I did over look that fact.

Thank you for pointing that one out to me

Since it is obviouse that both of us were "ofended" by eachothers replys, I will be the first in saying that I am sorry for taking it that way. I was rather tired last night and when I checked the boards one last time before I was going to bed, the last thing that I wanted to see for my reply was "Not really listening are you?" :shrug:

I am not here to say that I am right and you are wrong. Obviously you have much more knowledge about this subject than I do and I want to "borrow" that knowledge. In my search for "getting what I want" while trying to avoid buying all this extra stuff and end up not using it ever again, I am trying to protect my investment yet avoid the useless "leftovers".


Thank you once again for your insight and I will promise to keep a more open mind in the future.

[jtroutma]

BTW: I just reread my post that started this whole mess.. I should have mentioned that I dont have intentions of " trying this till it fries, then RMA it"


If I blatently kill the card and it is obvious, then I would feel far too guilty to RMA it back to the company. However with the first one, it had problems from day one and while I was doing some measurements on it one night, it just flat died. That I really dont have a problem with RMA.

I should have been more specific; my bad....

[megatron]

Yes I took it the wrong way, I am sorry, I am only human.

To tell you the truth - I wouldn't fell guilty at all to RMA under those circumstances but it takes a long time to get a responce in my experience. If you have a spare gfx card then thats fine.

Where I live, condensation is likely to appear since its cold and damp (when I have the windows open). If you live in a hot climate then you have less chance of condensation unless it is also a humid climate too .

If the pelt cools down the area and then the gfx chip heats it up (like if you turn on the pelt before the PC) then this is the tiime condensation is likely to appear. Remember if you make a good job of protecting the card against condensation then you don't have to worry at all.

It depends on how much heat the gfx chip gives out and how well the pelt cools. If the pelt cools really well - you could turn the on both at the same time and have the gfx chip drop well below ambient and it is likely for condensation to form. This is a worst case scenario.

My cpu temp was 1 deg c at idle at the coldest ambient temp (the performance of the watercooling setup directly effects the performance of the pelt). It would have gone below this when it was fried from me turning on the pelt for 20 sec and then powering up to see what kind a temps I got. Silly me!

[jtroutma]

First of all:

Sorry to hear about your misfortunes but glad to see that we were able to clean things up.

From what I can tell on my GPU, it give out a moderate amount of heat during startup. Its only durring 3d apps. does it really start giving off a lot of heat. I was planing on powering on the pelt and the GPU at the same time. So from what you are explaining, this is where my condensation problem will come from; freezing the chip during startup then running a 3D app. and risk melting the ice.

Another consideration is that I can only crank up the core clock after I get into Windows so there is a time where the card will be puting off even less heat. Sounds like a three stage issue; standard clock (during powerup), OverClock (in Windows and 2D apps.) and Full Bore (3D intensive apps).

I suspect that the GPU will give off about 20W of heat during the first two stages and then about 45W during the last one. With those assumptions the 85W in theory should keep the card well frozen during all those times.

I also plan on doing a voltage mod to the core so that will increase the heat load as well but that should be across the board.

Bummer, with this new information, it sounds like I have no choice but to find some neopreen to avoid another dead board.

Hmmmmmmm

BTW the humidity where I am is not too high, say 60% on an average day.

[golovko]

megatron:

do you have any pics of the work you've done with pelts and insulation and such? I'm interested in them if you do. Thanks

[megatron]

I had a pic of me showing the back of my mobo all slicked up. It may be on the other network computer here.

[jtroutma]

megatron:

How thick of neopreen should I use on the back side of the board for an 85W pelt? 1/2" good enough or do I need more? Also for the front section, you are recommending 1" neopren around the edge of the GPU?

Need to order that neopren and not sure how much I should get.

Thanks

[megatron]

I bought some thin 3mm? neoprene because I thought it could help in the small are between the cpu dye and the heatsink. It was too big. Just get thick neoprene so that only a few layers can build up to surround the waterblock. For the back you cant had too thick otherwise the mobo wont fit back onto the case's removable tray.