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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 02-09-2004, 03:10 PM   #1
Myth
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Default Closed loop Bong idea..

Hi

I've been running around with an idea in my head, how if possible to build a bong cooler that doesn't moisturize the room, and doesn't use the amout of water that my old "normal" bong did. I'm a really lousy artist, so no laughing at my attached drawing..

The idea is to circulate the air inside the tube, and using a some tubeing that will allow the air to cool down (see attachment, it's a 80mm tube) while outside the mail bong area. The Fans have to be able to work in "misty" conditions, but the ones used in bathrooms should be able to do the trick. The air travels through the tube and ends up in my idea of a watertrap which i hope should help the air to follow the arrows and the waporized water which should be back in liquid form should flow back into the water chamber.

Anyone think this would work?
Attached Images
File Type: gif bong.gif (5.2 KB, 55 views)
File Type: jpg udsugnigsslange.jpg (3.7 KB, 64 views)

Last edited by Myth; 02-09-2004 at 03:29 PM.
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Unread 02-10-2004, 08:24 AM   #2
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The whole point of evaporative cooling such as a bong is to get rid of the heat by turning water from liquid to gas. If you're running a closed circuit, the only way this will work is if you have a condenser at the far end of the circuit - the sort of tubing you're got there just won't do it.
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Unread 02-10-2004, 09:31 AM   #3
aBo
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second that... wont work unless you make the whole point of having the bongs obsolete

Instead maybe focus making a more effective conventional wc setup, or go to www.overclockers.com and check out their "nuclear tower cooling" articles/tips
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Unread 02-10-2004, 09:47 AM   #4
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That design reminds me of a stove oven Better yet, a steamer!
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Unread 02-10-2004, 02:03 PM   #5
Myth
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The matter of getting the air cooler would that not just be a question of making it travel a long enough way thru the tube?

What if i left out the middle connection, you thing water loss would be lower when sending the condensater water through the tube and down through the watertrap?
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Unread 02-10-2004, 02:23 PM   #6
Groth
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The question you need to ask yourself is "Where is the heat going?"

With a bong the heat is carried away as the latent heat of vaporization of your water. In your diagram, the only way for heat to leave is through the walls and into the air - essentially you've made a passive radiator.
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Unread 02-10-2004, 03:18 PM   #7
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If you used enough of that tubing, however, the water would heat the air and the air would indirectly heat the outside air, providing rather ineffecient cooling. You might as well use a radiator, since that is basically what you are doing there anyways.
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Unread 02-10-2004, 05:58 PM   #8
kingu
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Well as I see it, the water is evaporated inside and pushed up through the tube along with the air, then it is required to be chilled down so it will condense - which can only happen if it is cooled down enough.
As i discussed with Myth it could be an idea to make it of a metal, perhaps aluminium. That would give it the abillity to get rid of the heat.
There for in my eyes it is all up to the material it is made of that desides wether it will work or not.
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Unread 02-10-2004, 07:09 PM   #9
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If you've got a big enough radiator in the circuit it will work, but you may have to cool the radiator below ambient to get a reasonably low vapour pressure. By the time you've got this far, you'll probably get better temperatures and less complexity with a water cooling circuit. The major benefit of evaporative cooling is letting you go below ambient, which this prevents...
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Unread 02-10-2004, 07:16 PM   #10
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Is the principle similar to a Heatpipe? I dunno a thing about heatpipes.
If you make it similar to that of a heatpipe would it be effective?
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Unread 02-11-2004, 03:46 AM   #11
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The principle is similar to a heatpipe, but it requires a far colder cold end to work effectively than a heatpipe would, since the heatpipe is at much lower pressure.
This system would work quite well if you could run it down at say 50mB though...
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Unread 02-11-2004, 07:07 AM   #12
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50 mB ? damn been at work for 12 hours.. think i need a reboot ;-)
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Unread 02-11-2004, 07:16 AM   #13
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Will the real Rube Goldberg please stand up?
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Unread 02-11-2004, 12:40 PM   #14
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Sorry, should have clarified that 50 mB = 50 millibars = 5 kPa
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Unread 02-11-2004, 03:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiBling
Will the real Rube Goldberg please stand up?


I use to dream and make those machines back in middle school, stopped due to the fact that they are not "cool" anymore...

I still dream.
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Unread 02-12-2004, 04:07 AM   #16
Myth
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#14

After getting some shuteye i got the idea.. What you suggest is to create an under pressure inside the bong, which should change the the temperature needed for vaporizing the water.. If that is possible and can be built without being a nuclear scientist.. it would be a whole new type of cooling.. Interesting..
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Unread 02-12-2004, 04:21 AM   #17
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It's possible if somewhat complicated. The real problem is that you don't gain much - you've still got to dump the heat somewhere.
If you've got a good source of very low temperature coolant then it would work nicely, but you've got the problem that the temperature of the liquid will always be no lower than the temperature of the radiator.
Effectively, you're exchanging increased cost and complexity for reduced fluid volume. The advantage of evaporation cooling is that since the air is not saturated, you can evaporate more water into it so getting sub-ambient cooling temperatures. As soon as you go to a closed loop system, you will always be running at saturated gas. This limits you to runnning at the radiator temperature at best.
The effect of dropping the pressure is just to make this possible - it doesn't necessarily make it all that practical.
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Unread 02-12-2004, 04:52 AM   #18
Myth
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I the end it will probatly be easier to build a good chiller.. Since that would also be my only idea how to cool down the air in the system. The only other option would prob. be to make the air passage so long that it could emit enough heat, or make a radiator for the air which in any case be quite large..
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Unread 02-12-2004, 05:37 PM   #19
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I've been looking at the same idea also. Using low pressure or other liquid that evaporates fast. Sure, in that case, I'm building a radiator. But... as it evaporates, and condenses, I'm also building a vapo chill system

Having that topick, I've been exploring vapo. (as that is what a closed bong is) Vapo chillers use an active condenser to change the pressure of the liquid, and that makes it possible to exchange the heat effective.
It is possible to build a "passive" condenser, but to make it any efective, it needs to be huge!
Look at destilling alcohol. With a setup like that, and actively air cooling the condensing spiral, it will work, and it will give you the below ambient temperatures.

The things to consider are the space needed, and the fact that you don't want the liquid used in your watercooling system , as it starts to evaporate once it hits your CPU.

For me it was to expensive to experiment with, as I don't have the gear for alcohol destilling availible.
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Unread 02-26-2004, 09:52 PM   #20
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I'm no expert, but this thing is starting to look a bit like a heatpipe. If that's the direction you are going, why not just have a waterblock of sorts over the processor, and a thin copper pipe (1/2-1/4") going straight up from the heatsink with a fan in it (I have no idea where you would find one that would work in these conditions), curving down, and going through a large spiral of tubing to cool if off. You could fill it with alcohol or a similar evaporative liquid and put a fan or two in the spiral to cool it. As the alcohol hits the waterblock, it wil vaporize and carry the heat around to the copper pipe spiral, where it re-condenses and releases the heat. Of course, heat saturation, where the spiral cannot disperse the heat faster than it is created by the processor, is a problem, but this system has the definite advantage over watercooling of being entirely enclosed.
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