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Heatsink/ Heat Pipe / ThermoSiphon Cooling The cat will only make the mistake of putting its paw by your HSF once. :) Also the place to discuss the new high end heat pipe goodness.

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Unread 03-01-2003, 07:06 PM   #1
international
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Default a new heatsink.



in fact, this heatsink is empty in the middle, it looks the same from the other end. here is some characters:
a=20mm; b= free; c=2 to 5 mm( the Fin pitch);d=38mm;e=2mm.
and the length can be as long as you please.

if you are interested, please post your opinion. thanks
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Unread 03-01-2003, 07:29 PM   #2
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Default I dont get it.

So, and im guessing, it's supposed to be a processor heatsink.

If that's the case, what's the point in being open in both ends?

And if it's supposed to carry something in the middle, then why is it missing... or is is top secret (please not another WaterX) ?

And is it made of copper? And is that fins? Or is it circular sheets of waved cooper ?

And how is it supposed to transfer the heat to the heatsink? And why telepuppies are evil?

And if its supposed to be something else , what then?

I had more but these will do for now .

PS : http://www.cifcooler.com/ , their site sucks .
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Last edited by TerraMex; 03-01-2003 at 07:35 PM.
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Unread 03-01-2003, 08:15 PM   #3
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TerraMex£¬ thanks for your good questions, i reply as follows:
1£¬first, your guess is right, i do want to make it to be a processor heatsink; but now, it still can only be called as a raw material for heatsink, because it should installed fan and need other fittings.
2, the two ends are all open, because i have hide a secret, i will tell you by the other pictures.
3, the middle is empty, there have two choice to finish it as a cooler, first: you can fill some material to make it as a heatpipe; second: only need to let the wall be thicker and even let it is solid; because the pro-heatsink can aborb enough heatsink if the thickness is enough;
4,yes, it is made of copper. that fins is skived, and it is with the wall, no need any other solder, and no need any plug technology. it is really very like circular sheets of waved copper.
5, you can see another picture to find the answer.
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Unread 03-01-2003, 09:18 PM   #4
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pictures:
sorry, just now i cannot upload the pictures , so i can only use the old pictures post in the other bbs.







Attached Images
File Type: jpg cfn004_2.jpg (43.0 KB, 140 views)
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Unread 03-01-2003, 09:28 PM   #5
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the last picture is about heat pipe.
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Unread 03-02-2003, 07:53 AM   #6
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Interesting.

But i have a few more questions.

< Just a remark, thats one dirty laptop >

Anyway, i dont really think that using it as heatpipe , by closing both ends with a copper "coin" and filling the interior with some Rxxx, will work properly. The design as it is doesnt really help, because the convection inside it wont be efficient. Hopefully , someone will back me up on this, or correct me (hint hint).

Another thing , isnt it a bit ... small ?

So , real question number one, are you going to use that with a heatpipe system ? And if so, use the tube with that "large" section? And why not try a few copper rods inside (both welded ) to help? Or are you going to use it to transfer heat to a radiator outside the case (or something?) ?

With a solid core , copper, it really depends on the air movement . Having those types of fins, with a regular fan blowing on them, i think only the upper fins will get a decent amout of air through them. The lower ones will probably get a minimum if any.

So, are you going to have one or more lateral fans? A top one? Or a small shroud that covers most of the heatsink and makes the air exit near the base? And how are you going to attach it to the socket?

Zalman already tried something like that in a few of their coolers :

http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/cnps5005Cu.htm

http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/cnps5100Cu.htm

They do work, but they're not that good.
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Unread 03-02-2003, 06:28 PM   #7
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here have another picture.

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Unread 03-02-2003, 07:12 PM   #8
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thank you TerraMex very much, all your questions are very important to me to design this finned pipe.

here are the answers:

1, from my experience, i do back your opion, though the heat convection speed in the heatpipe is 100,000 times than the plane pipe(in theory), but the most important things to this finned pipe is how to emit the heat more quick and more efficient. because this finned pipe is total made of copper, the heat convection speed is very quick compared with the tranditonal heatsink, whether the Al heatsink, or copper embeded. but your theory still have a problem, i think maybe you compare this finned pipe with coolermaster or other producer's heatpipe. their heatpipe is tumbled in the heatsink, but my pinned pipe is a whole one, thus there is no boundary layer to hold up the heat transfer, and this is the most difference.

2, it never won't be small. you can check the P4 chip die, can my finned pipe's inside dimension (d)cover it? and what's more, the above characters are all changable if needed, including the fin length, fin thickness, fin width, and the space between the fin line, and the pipe diameter.

3, i won't embed any copper in it,even to say welded, because all these technology will have a very big problem, the heat resistance. so why not choose a solid copper stick, and fish out the unwanted copper, only leave enough copper base and copper wall? and let it be a finished heatsink.

4, in the first, i did think that use a fan blowing on it, but the result is your saying:only the upper fins will get a decent amout of air through them. The lower ones will probably get a minimum if any.

5,so, i'm going to have a lateral fans, and if possible i want to make a air cover, and let the fan blows it from the side.

6, you said Zalman :They do work, but they're not that good. I agree with you, many my friends said the flower is a stunt, the fin is inserted, and too long and too thin.

thank you again, and hope your futhure advice. :P
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Unread 03-02-2003, 07:57 PM   #9
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That new picture gives an even better ideia of whats on your mind .

1. No no, not CoolerMaster's or Zen's . I was thinking in the convection and conduction of the heat inside the pipe and the gas, and not from the fins to the air . I think the interior of the pipe is too wide to make an effective heatpipe, but you can prove me wrong . Althou you are right that in the boundary of the gas, in contact with the wall of the pipe, heat will (probably) transfer faster due the configuration of the fins (and air flow).

The point was... will you just fill it with compressed gas?.

2. True, the p4 has a very small die, and the heatspreader will help alot. The copper pipe itself, given a decent airflow, would work as a heatsink no matter what else you use in it . If the contact point is good enough.

If your initial plan works, you should try the same width in the pipe, but increase the fin size, and maybe the pipe's lenght.

3. I was thinking in having smaller pipes inside, to "help. Actually, not even pipes, but pins.

4-5. Maybe some ducting is in order, a small pvc pipe maybe . I have a good ideia that just might work, the problem really is space. Something like using a small pvc tube with the fan on top pushing air through it (with the heatpipe in it of course). Or pulling. But i dont think it will be efficient.

Having one or two oblique fan's, just like a double fan bong cooler, pushing or pulling air through it (pushing works better , imo) would do the trick.



6. I have a v7 and a v7+ , both currently "used" due to some "modifications" im performing on my fulltower , and i have to say that i like my v7+ better than a zalman. It all comes down to some philosophical discussion on witch is better .
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Unread 03-02-2003, 08:32 PM   #10
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i find you are a expert in heat exchange. can we make friends?

1, to make it to be a heatpipe is really very difficult, because the diameter is very long, but i did success before, i use the laser jointing, but it cost me a lot, , and the result it really perfect. why fill it with compressed gas? you know gas is a very bad conductor for heat. so, can we suggest it to be empty in one end?(remarks, my camera goes wrong, this photo is photoed long before£¬ the cover is not jointed with the wall)

2, here is a link, the heatsink is passive to emit heat, and the fin is very short, only 25, i think, if i only increase the wall thickness, and the fin lenght, will it can also be a passive heatsink?http://www.ocztechnology.com/product...specs.php?id=4

3, your suggestion is good, but still a problem. at present, the big problem is how to transfer the heat from the finned pipe to the air, but not transfer the heat from the cpu die to the heat fin.

4, use pvc pipe is a very great suggestion, it is cheap, can you advice me more, how to root them? especially the two sides pvc pipe? the middle can fixup with the base.

6, i perfer to choose the v7+ more than zalman.
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Unread 03-02-2003, 09:05 PM   #11
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1. Erm, i was under the impression that you were using it as a heatpipe with gas to carry part of the heat in the interior . And that image at the top suggests that . The heatpipe principle involves some R12 (or similar) gas inside that has a very low boiling point.

With that image, and given the assumption its a heatpipe, it does look like and evaporator.

2. To create a passive heatsink it is possible, but i recommend trying with a longer pipe, longer fins, and (big AND) a very good case airflow. And maybe try with a solid copper center. Reduce the diameter, increasing the fin size.

Never the less, because you already have that one made, try to construct the ducting first.

3,4 You can make one like that out of a small pipe. Just carefully pick one with enought diameter to fit. You can use epoxy or even goop (silicone, or other glues, but they need to resist some heating) to attach it to the base. I've seen " T "shaped pvc pipes before, just like the ones used with the bong coolers, but finding one of the right dimensions must be hard. You can get a normal one, and cut it an and angle . Then you can glue them to the main pipe attached to the base.


Then 2 80mm fans or even 2 60mm fans should do the rest.

7. I've run my computer in passive mode for an afternoon. I just turned off the fans and put it on the window , because it was a windy day, it cooled it just fine . Not pratical anyway.
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Unread 03-02-2003, 10:01 PM   #12
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TerraMex£¬ thanks for your suggestion and the drawing very much, if the fan is installed in the pvc pipe, it will be some heavy for the side pvc pipe to bear.

hope more friends can suggest me, £º£©
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Unread 03-04-2003, 01:16 AM   #13
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very cool design. why don't you put a fan on the top, and have it blowing down the heatsink, with a shroud over the fins.

That'd be about the best way I could imagine
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Unread 03-04-2003, 05:07 AM   #14
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Default Heatpipes

Actually, heatpipes can use something as banal as water for a fluid, if you create the correct pressure levels inside the pipe (near vacuum I believe for water).

The real issue will be weather you can get the correct wicking action going on the inside of the walls to draw the fluid where it needs to go.
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Unread 03-06-2003, 09:04 AM   #15
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to Brad:

i have tried to install a fan on the top, but its effect is very bad. the result is as TerraMex said:only the upper fins will get a decent amout of air through them. The lower ones will probably get a minimum if any.
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Unread 03-06-2003, 09:07 AM   #16
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to Bignuts:

i agree with you, the air pressure in the heatpipe is nearly 10*10^-12.

wicking action do have thus ablity.
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