Black ICE2 + Air-Trap + Z4 = ...

CornerJack · 05-12-2002, 12:53 PM

Just some words to present my liquid cooling to you.
It is composed of Black ICE2 + air-trap + Z4 + Eheim pump.

More photographs and information (in French) : here

Pictures

A+
CornerJack

Brad · 05-12-2002, 01:49 PM

all very nice, I like the duct work at the back, but that waterblock must be holding you back heaps, what are your temps like? (assuming you have had a system in there)

CornerJack · 05-12-2002, 02:09 PM

Before placing a configuration inside, I test initially the circuit

mkosem · 05-12-2002, 02:40 PM

you know all those transitions from tubing to the metal stuff are gonna be killing your flow right? the less transitions you have the better your flow will be(obviously).

--Matt

Cyco-Dude · 05-12-2002, 03:37 PM

looks nice

pompoen · 05-12-2002, 04:03 PM

It remind me of turbokeus case, belgians do make nice watercooling rigs

I better gonna live up against the expectations

Nice rig

Cyco-Dude · 05-12-2002, 04:05 PM

lol, i need to find some valves that small..
speaking of which, what is the ID of your tubing? what kind of tubing is it? what did you make your duct out of, plexi?

CornerJack · 05-12-2002, 04:11 PM

The air-trap is a tube plexi 45 cm in diameter.
With regard to the connections, they are connections for the gas pipelines.

++
CornerJack

Cyco-Dude · 05-12-2002, 04:32 PM

well, i read the article. to answer my own question, the duct is made of aluminum, with just one side being plexiglass (to see the chrome-plated BI2).

CornerJack, "relier tous les ventilateurs Ã* mon digitaldoc5, placer les composants de mon pc (MSI 845 ULTRA, P4 1.8A GHz,...), placer les nÃ©ons, terminer les emplacements de baies 5"1/4" and post pics when your done!!

UnaClocker · 05-12-2002, 06:15 PM

Seems like the air trap might be prone to sucking the air back through the loop. Does it take long to get the air out?

Kevin · 05-12-2002, 09:53 PM

Fllow Rate Schmlo rate... I like the copper tubing

.
-Kev

bigben2k · 05-13-2002, 08:13 AM

Tres joli, CornerJack!

C'est la deuxieme fois que je voit cette air-trap, et ca vient d'Europe encore!

Can't wait to see what you'll do with that funky slanted case!

CornerJack · 05-13-2002, 09:54 AM

Thanks

CornerJack

kibbler · 05-13-2002, 11:03 AM

no one's mentioned it yet, so I might be mistaken, but shouldn't the air trap be above everything else? I remember the long cooling article said something about that.

Really clean setup tho, killer looks, although judging from what I've read, you should get another wb

Cyco-Dude · 05-13-2002, 12:07 PM

i dont really think it matters...

Haddy · 05-13-2002, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cyco-Dude
i dont really think it matters...

http://www.procooling.com/articles/h...plained6.shtml

UnaClocker · 05-13-2002, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kibbler
no one's mentioned it yet, so I might be mistaken, but shouldn't the air trap be above everything else? I remember the long cooling article said something about that.

Really clean setup tho, killer looks, although judging from what I've read, you should get another wb

Joe was wrong when he said that. I think he just wanted to make the fancy pictures.

morphling1 · 05-13-2002, 04:08 PM

Hi, very nice setup, but I also think there is possible problem with air trapped in the system. The problem is the position of the rad. , ok if you have the pump running it should work and air gets out of the system (never mind the position of the trap, but let say it does), but if you turn the pump off, the wonderful G force does its job, some part of water will run from the rad. and trapped air inside again, so every time you turn on the pump it will take some time to fill the system again.
Just a thought, maybe you've got that thing somehow worked out and I'm wrong.
Again congrats for beautiful setup.

Haddy · 05-13-2002, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UnaClocker

Joe was wrong when he said that.

BLASPHAMY!!!

Nordic · 05-13-2002, 08:16 PM

Well, then I'll say it again. Joe was wrong when he said that.

If all you have in your system is water and the air has been collected in the air-trap (if it works correctly when the pump is running), then you can have the air-trap anywhere. There is simply NO WAY that air could move from the air trap to another point that is higher up in your system. Think about it.

The only problem that could arise is if you have a low flow when the system is running which means that you can't bring all the air out of the radiator by the rush of water, but that is usually not a problem. Also, you might have a problem when you turn off the pump and the openings to the air-trap aren't both below water level, as the air can escape up into one of the openings. Not having both openings below water level is a design flaw anyway, it won't trap air in the air-trap. Doh.

And also, this is what amazingly few people get at first, the water will not leak out of the system even if your air-trap is the lowest point in your system. UNLESS, you have a leak which can let air into the system. Basically the air pressure will keep the water column in your system where it's at. If you have a straw handy, try sucking some jummy liquid to fill the straw, and then place a finger over the top opening - see how the liquid stays in the straw? Same thing.

kibbler · 05-13-2002, 08:25 PM

having never built/used an airtrap, would the airtrap have to be completely sealed to prevent liquid from flowing out the top? I mean, since liquids tend to equalize its level within a container, if the air in the airtrap could leak out, say, the top of the airtrap, then would the liquid in the tubing and the radiator force the liquid in the airtrap to rise in an effort to reach the same level?

I guess if this is the case, then you just have one more thing to deal with about on top of everything else

sorry if that's confusing

Cyco-Dude · 05-13-2002, 08:54 PM

nope, you can have the top of the air-trap open. air pressure keeps it from overflowing.

bigben2k · 05-14-2002, 08:18 AM

Actually, it's more like water pressure, not air pressure.

In order for any liquid to flow out of that system, there would have to be something to replace the water: as this is a closed system, there just isn't anything (unless there's a leak).

Now I call this a closed system, even though it has an air opening, because any coolant flowing one way, will be replaced by the same coolant coming back, simply because of the way the air trap is designed.

If however, the system wasn't closed (i.e. the fluid level got low enough to allow air in the system), then colant would flow down from the rad (sucking air in from the air trap), and level off at the top of the air trap.

so if the air trap can hold that much fluid, great. Otherwise, you've got a mess on your hands.

CornerJack · 05-14-2002, 10:28 AM

Here a photograph which shows you the open air-trap whereas the circuit turns.
It git of a closed loop and even if the radiator is higher than the air-trap, it is not in contact with the air!

++
CornerJack

bigben2k · 05-14-2002, 12:45 PM

Yup... Joe was wrong (sorry Haddy!).

As long as there is a decent flow, the coolant should drag any air to the air trap, but do watch out for setups using something like a Swiftech: make sure you fill those pockets of trapped air.

(Many waterblocks suffer from this issue, but the Swiftech makes it more obvious. The Swiftech WB is a fine product)

05-12-2002, 12:53 PM	#1
CornerJack Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Belgique Posts: 25	Black ICE2 + Air-Trap + Z4 = ... Just some words to present my liquid cooling to you. It is composed of Black ICE2 + air-trap + Z4 + Eheim pump. More photographs and information (in French) : here Pictures A+ CornerJack __________________ :: WEBMASTER OF OVERCLEX :: _ http://www.overclex.net _ Last edited by CornerJack; 05-16-2002 at 10:59 AM.

05-12-2002, 01:49 PM	#2
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	all very nice, I like the duct work at the back, but that waterblock must be holding you back heaps, what are your temps like? (assuming you have had a system in there) __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

05-12-2002, 02:09 PM	#3
CornerJack Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Belgique Posts: 25	Before placing a configuration inside, I test initially the circuit __________________ :: WEBMASTER OF OVERCLEX :: _ http://www.overclex.net _

05-12-2002, 02:40 PM	#4
mkosem Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2001 Location: here Posts: 494	you know all those transitions from tubing to the metal stuff are gonna be killing your flow right? the less transitions you have the better your flow will be(obviously). --Matt __________________ If you can't cool it, blow it up!! http://www.mattkosem.com

05-12-2002, 04:11 PM	#8
CornerJack Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Belgique Posts: 25	The air-trap is a tube plexi 45 cm in diameter. With regard to the connections, they are connections for the gas pipelines. ++ CornerJack __________________ :: WEBMASTER OF OVERCLEX :: _ http://www.overclex.net _

05-12-2002, 03:37 PM	#5
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	looks nice

05-12-2002, 04:03 PM	#6
pompoen Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: belgium Posts: 41	It remind me of turbokeus case, belgians do make nice watercooling rigs I better gonna live up against the expectations Nice rig

05-12-2002, 04:05 PM	#7
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	lol, i need to find some valves that small.. speaking of which, what is the ID of your tubing? what kind of tubing is it? what did you make your duct out of, plexi?

05-12-2002, 04:32 PM	#9
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	well, i read the article. to answer my own question, the duct is made of aluminum, with just one side being plexiglass (to see the chrome-plated BI2). CornerJack, "relier tous les ventilateurs Ã* mon digitaldoc5, placer les composants de mon pc (MSI 845 ULTRA, P4 1.8A GHz,...), placer les nÃ©ons, terminer les emplacements de baies 5"1/4" and post pics when your done!!

05-12-2002, 06:15 PM	#10
UnaClocker Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Bremerton, WA Posts: 514	Seems like the air trap might be prone to sucking the air back through the loop. Does it take long to get the air out? __________________ The UnaClocker Watercooler Extraordinaire! Overclock till it goes BOOM!

05-12-2002, 09:53 PM	#11
Kevin Slacking more than your weird uncle Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: San Diego, CA (UCSD) / Los Angeles, CA (home) Posts: 1,605	Fllow Rate Schmlo rate... I like the copper tubing . -Kev __________________ I used to throw hot coffee all over the ass of the horse there, then whip him while he was kickin' at me. Those f***in things are crazy.

05-13-2002, 08:13 AM	#12
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Tres joli, CornerJack! C'est la deuxieme fois que je voit cette air-trap, et ca vient d'Europe encore! Can't wait to see what you'll do with that funky slanted case! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-13-2002, 09:54 AM	#13
CornerJack Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Belgique Posts: 25	Thanks CornerJack __________________ :: WEBMASTER OF OVERCLEX :: _ http://www.overclex.net _

05-13-2002, 11:03 AM	#14
kibbler Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 107	no one's mentioned it yet, so I might be mistaken, but shouldn't the air trap be above everything else? I remember the long cooling article said something about that. Really clean setup tho, killer looks, although judging from what I've read, you should get another wb

05-13-2002, 12:07 PM	#15
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	i dont really think it matters...

05-13-2002, 04:08 PM	#18
morphling1 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Slovenia Posts: 468	Hi, very nice setup, but I also think there is possible problem with air trapped in the system. The problem is the position of the rad. , ok if you have the pump running it should work and air gets out of the system (never mind the position of the trap, but let say it does), but if you turn the pump off, the wonderful G force does its job, some part of water will run from the rad. and trapped air inside again, so every time you turn on the pump it will take some time to fill the system again. Just a thought, maybe you've got that thing somehow worked out and I'm wrong. Again congrats for beautiful setup.

05-13-2002, 08:16 PM	#20
Nordic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: UmeÃ¥, Sweden Posts: 98	Well, then I'll say it again. Joe was wrong when he said that. If all you have in your system is water and the air has been collected in the air-trap (if it works correctly when the pump is running), then you can have the air-trap anywhere. There is simply NO WAY that air could move from the air trap to another point that is higher up in your system. Think about it. The only problem that could arise is if you have a low flow when the system is running which means that you can't bring all the air out of the radiator by the rush of water, but that is usually not a problem. Also, you might have a problem when you turn off the pump and the openings to the air-trap aren't both below water level, as the air can escape up into one of the openings. Not having both openings below water level is a design flaw anyway, it won't trap air in the air-trap. Doh. And also, this is what amazingly few people get at first, the water will not leak out of the system even if your air-trap is the lowest point in your system. UNLESS, you have a leak which can let air into the system. Basically the air pressure will keep the water column in your system where it's at. If you have a straw handy, try sucking some jummy liquid to fill the straw, and then place a finger over the top opening - see how the liquid stays in the straw? Same thing. __________________ Pump:Eheim 1048, Radiator:LPD radiator 100x150x20mm, CPU block:DD Maze-2, GPU block: DD GPU block, Chipset block:Zalman NB32 AMD XP 1500+, EpoX 8K7A, PoV GF3Ti200 Pic of my YY-cube

05-13-2002, 08:25 PM	#21
kibbler Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 107	having never built/used an airtrap, would the airtrap have to be completely sealed to prevent liquid from flowing out the top? I mean, since liquids tend to equalize its level within a container, if the air in the airtrap could leak out, say, the top of the airtrap, then would the liquid in the tubing and the radiator force the liquid in the airtrap to rise in an effort to reach the same level? I guess if this is the case, then you just have one more thing to deal with about on top of everything else sorry if that's confusing

05-13-2002, 08:54 PM	#22
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	nope, you can have the top of the air-trap open. air pressure keeps it from overflowing.

05-14-2002, 08:18 AM	#23
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Actually, it's more like water pressure, not air pressure. In order for any liquid to flow out of that system, there would have to be something to replace the water: as this is a closed system, there just isn't anything (unless there's a leak). Now I call this a closed system, even though it has an air opening, because any coolant flowing one way, will be replaced by the same coolant coming back, simply because of the way the air trap is designed. If however, the system wasn't closed (i.e. the fluid level got low enough to allow air in the system), then colant would flow down from the rad (sucking air in from the air trap), and level off at the top of the air trap. so if the air trap can hold that much fluid, great. Otherwise, you've got a mess on your hands. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-14-2002, 10:28 AM	#24
CornerJack Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Belgique Posts: 25	Here a photograph which shows you the open air-trap whereas the circuit turns. It git of a closed loop and even if the radiator is higher than the air-trap, it is not in contact with the air! ++ CornerJack __________________ :: WEBMASTER OF OVERCLEX :: _ http://www.overclex.net _

05-14-2002, 12:45 PM	#25
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Yup... Joe was wrong (sorry Haddy!). As long as there is a decent flow, the coolant should drag any air to the air trap, but do watch out for setups using something like a Swiftech: make sure you fill those pockets of trapped air. (Many waterblocks suffer from this issue, but the Swiftech makes it more obvious. The Swiftech WB is a fine product) __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

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