My new waterblock

nicozeg · 10-28-2002, 07:33 PM

I’ve been reading around this forum during the last month, and find it a very informative place with a lot of people with great ideas.

I made some posts around, but before continuing I want to introduce myself by starting my first thread, and the best way to do it is showing my work: My new waterblock.

It falls in the microblock category being very lightweight, and has a couple months developing because currently I don’t have much spare time.

The materials are copper (base), polyester resin (top) and thin wall brass pipe. I made it completely in a small hobby lathe.

It’s not ready yet because I’m currently making the piece that merges the four exhausts into one, and designing the holding clip.

MeltMan · 10-28-2002, 07:37 PM

Wow.

I bet that thing is going to kick ass. Excelent work, its the pinnacle of keep it simple stupid.

How did you form the plastic? its awesome!

Agg...! I need to see its gutz! Is it flat plained on the bottom? or is there a shape in the center?

bigben2k · 10-28-2002, 07:43 PM

Very nice. Welcome to Pro/Cooling!

I had a similar idea, but it evolved into something more complex (as you know).

I do believe that your design will work extremely well. I think that you'll find a very low flow resistance, which is always good.

Excellent work with the polyester resin! That's a first, as far as I know.

nicozeg · 10-29-2002, 05:59 AM

My main design goal was being able to do a "lathe only" block; I consider this my main innovation, since the miller has been always the rockstar of blockmaking.

It´s optimized for high flow speed over the whole surface by running a thin film of water through a narrowing channel as the radius increase. So it should be somewhat restrictive, but that’s the cost of high surface speed.

The center nozzle is internally shaped to gradually increase speed with the least drag possible.

Here’s the body piece, I casted it, then after lots of turning, some wet sanding and polishing come to this:

ChrioN · 10-29-2002, 07:59 AM

thats really sweet!

impressivness!

MeltMan · 10-29-2002, 10:08 AM

Its beautiful! I cant wait to see some numbers. I bet you are WELL within heatsink weight spec.

I need to find one of these hobby lathes. It looks like a super great way to make blocks simply and cheaply.

MadDogMe · 10-29-2002, 10:09 AM

Sweet!, can you show a pic of the baseplate only?, how are you planning on joining BP to cap?...

Does the top meet flush with the tops of the channels?, is it a single channel inside?, or a double spiral?, how did you lathe them, or are they concentric rings?...

Want ...base...plate...pictures...

...

Blackeagle · 10-29-2002, 11:11 AM

WELCOME to the site/boards! ! And ya brought a new block! !

Just looking at the pics he posted I'll offer this guess.

Concentric rings/ridges cut in the base to increase trubulence & surface area but do not contact the cap. From his first pic they look far to narrow to be otherwise, he stated a desire for high flow in a tight spaced area, real channeled flow wouldn't allow for that and you wouldn't need 4 outlets.

Man this site has so many good ideas from a large number of folks.

Very nice block and good innovation using the resin to make that nice cap which allowed you to cast the outlets right into it. Great job.

But I'd like to further MadDog's request, "want..base...pics"

gmat · 10-29-2002, 11:15 AM

+1 for the base pics.

A lathe-only block, now that's good ! Lathes are *so* less expensive than mills... I see a new trend here

nicozeg · 10-29-2002, 03:59 PM

Ups, I’m in trouble. If I keep showing pictures, I’d better finish it quick, before someone gets impatient and make his own version.

Ok. Not so bad, just need to finish some details……….

The base was a nightmare, this machine is supposed to be able to work with aluminum or brass at a maximum diameter of 15mm, definitely not copper at 40mm!

It has small serrated steps to create small vortices that increase turbulence.

Alchemy · 10-29-2002, 05:13 PM

Fantastic.

That should work *extremely* well.

Alchemy

decodeddiesel · 10-29-2002, 05:43 PM

Very unique, and clever! Good job!

Puzzdre · 10-29-2002, 05:48 PM

Wow, that looks GREAT!!!! And all made on the hobby lathe.

Great job! Can you post a little more about the casting process and materials used?

Blackeagle · 10-29-2002, 05:49 PM

A cool design, but how is it held together? The answer will most likly make me feel foolish but I still don't see that part.

Sad, pics right there, still don't see it.

Epoxy? ?

MeltMan · 10-29-2002, 06:29 PM

Once again, Kick ass. Where might these lathes be found? I need one! Machines are just too expensive.

How was the base attached to the lathe while you were working on it? 4 screws? I might be able to use my drill press... muahahahaha!!!

nicozeg · 10-29-2002, 08:05 PM

Resin are simple, mix the parts, then wait until hardens. Well, some more details, but you can go to any fiberglass provider, ask for it and some directions and you are ready. Useful tip: Use gloves and cover every near surface, its realy sticky.

The base is still not bonded, want to make some flowtest first. I`m going to use a silicone cord.

My Machine is to weak for the task, it has plastic slides so it vibrates easily with hard materials. The best micro machines I know are from Proxon, maybe expensive but first class german made.

Very observative blackeagle! With just the first pic you could see his underwear!

Some more eyecandy: Turning the nozzle mould

MadDogMe · 10-30-2002, 03:38 AM

Quote:

It´s optimized for high flow speed over the whole surface by running a thin film of water through a narrowing channel as the radius increase. So it should be somewhat restrictive, but that’s the cost of high surface speed.

It was 'the narrowing channel' that got me!, I see what is meant now, the base get closer to the top at the outer edges...

Kudos for simplicity and complexity, if u know what I mean

...

Quote:

How was the base attached to the lathe while you were working on it? 4 screws? I might be able to use my drill press... muahahahaha!!!

L00N!!

, I use my Dremmel!

...

MeltMan · 10-30-2002, 08:46 AM

Riiiggghtt.... I dont think my dremel (or yours) has enough torque to spin a chunk of copper and let you lathe it at the same time. Unless you have a SUPER dremel like they sell for $70 at wal-mart. That is on my Christmas list

gone_fishin · 10-30-2002, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MeltMan
Riiiggghtt.... I dont think my dremel (or yours) has enough torque to spin a chunk of copper and let you lathe it at the same time. Unless you have a SUPER dremel like they sell for $70 at wal-mart. That is on my Christmas list

I don't think you would want to try to attach a chunk of copper to the dremel and turn it for cutting, quick way to burn it out. Dremels are high speed, you need low gear power to handle the cutting resistance when putting a blade to the copper.

Nicozeg, nice work man

I've tinkered with the lathe myself. The resin is a nice touch and I have looked into moulds for my sectional block. $100 was the cheapest kit that I could find with the mould material and a good amount of resin. Can I ask why you went with brass outlets instead of making resin ones to join to the top?

airspirit · 10-30-2002, 12:15 PM

Please (PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE) tell us how this thing does. This is similar to an idea I had back (the will-it-or-wont-it-spiral block) and you used many similar design techniques to what I was thinking about, like the cone in the middle. I suspect this will be an excellent performer for you ... and might give me the impetus to see if I can get my idea milled somewhere. I suspect this will have very little resistance and will outperform most if not all of the major players in the market, temp-wise (assuming you use a tough pump ... it will need to be fed by lotsa flow to avoid hot spots).

nicozeg · 10-30-2002, 02:22 PM

Resin is really cheap; I spend about U$5 for 1kg polyester kit. Epoxy is about 3X that.

First I modeled the parts in 3d cad, and then made a cardboard shape a couple mm bigger to form a mass of material to be “sculpted” in the lathe. The beauty of working with resin is that once the original is ready, is very easy to make copies using a “silicone rubber” mould. This material is not so cheap, but sure not near $100.

The brass outlets are for strength, polyester is very fragile in thin parts. Maybe with a harder type of resin it could be possible.

nicozeg · 10-30-2002, 09:12 PM

Here’s the cross section of the block.

With radial water spreading across the surface, flow speed would be decreasing inversely with the radius. To avoid this I used 1.5mm of surface separation at the center, and 0.5mm at the edge.

MadDogMe · 10-31-2002, 02:27 AM

Would having the 'steps' facing the other way have made it more turbulant?, so the water hit the 'upright walls' instead of flowing over them?...
Imagine water flowing from the outside edge inwards...

PS. is it easy to add/bond other resin parts to existing resin parts?, cause you could add another section on top with only two exit barbs, cut four slots into the place where you have the four brass barbs for more even flow...

gmat · 10-31-2002, 03:57 AM

Did U consider making a 'multi-spiral' base, by moving the tool slowly from center to periphery ?
It would require a slow rotation speed, or a fast tool translation. Repeating the operation as many times as necessary to get the desired shape.
With copper i imagine it would be tricky...

bigben2k · 10-31-2002, 09:07 AM

MadDogMe: I don't believe that reversing the step would improve anything. See pic.

gmat: given the rotation speed, and that Nicozeg essentially operates his tool by hand, I don't think that's possible for him.

What would be the purpose, anyways?

10-28-2002, 07:37 PM	#2
MeltMan Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: KS Posts: 374	Wow. I bet that thing is going to kick ass. Excelent work, its the pinnacle of keep it simple stupid. How did you form the plastic? its awesome! Agg...! I need to see its gutz! Is it flat plained on the bottom? or is there a shape in the center? __________________ MeltMan Lurker Supreme!

10-28-2002, 07:43 PM	#3
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Very nice. Welcome to Pro/Cooling! I had a similar idea, but it evolved into something more complex (as you know). I do believe that your design will work extremely well. I think that you'll find a very low flow resistance, which is always good. Excellent work with the polyester resin! That's a first, as far as I know. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-29-2002, 10:08 AM	#6
MeltMan Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: KS Posts: 374	Its beautiful! I cant wait to see some numbers. I bet you are WELL within heatsink weight spec. I need to find one of these hobby lathes. It looks like a super great way to make blocks simply and cheaply. __________________ MeltMan Lurker Supreme!

10-29-2002, 11:11 AM	#8
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	WELCOME to the site/boards! ! And ya brought a new block! ! Just looking at the pics he posted I'll offer this guess. Concentric rings/ridges cut in the base to increase trubulence & surface area but do not contact the cap. From his first pic they look far to narrow to be otherwise, he stated a desire for high flow in a tight spaced area, real channeled flow wouldn't allow for that and you wouldn't need 4 outlets. Man this site has so many good ideas from a large number of folks. Very nice block and good innovation using the resin to make that nice cap which allowed you to cast the outlets right into it. Great job. But I'd like to further MadDog's request, "want..base...pics" Last edited by Blackeagle; 10-29-2002 at 11:20 AM.

10-29-2002, 05:43 PM	#12
decodeddiesel Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: classified Posts: 534	Very unique, and clever! Good job! __________________ ...i hurt... do me a favor, disconect me... they can re-work me but i'll never be top of the line again ...i'd rather be nothing...

10-29-2002, 07:59 AM	#5
ChrioN Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 318	thats really sweet! impressivness!

10-29-2002, 10:09 AM	#7
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	Sweet!, can you show a pic of the baseplate only?, how are you planning on joining BP to cap?... Does the top meet flush with the tops of the channels?, is it a single channel inside?, or a double spiral?, how did you lathe them, or are they concentric rings?... Want ...base...plate...pictures... ...

10-29-2002, 11:15 AM	#9
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	+1 for the base pics. A lathe-only block, now that's good ! Lathes are so less expensive than mills... I see a new trend here

10-29-2002, 05:13 PM	#11
Alchemy Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 238	Fantastic. That should work extremely well. Alchemy

10-29-2002, 05:48 PM	#13
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	Wow, that looks GREAT!!!! And all made on the hobby lathe. Great job! Can you post a little more about the casting process and materials used? __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

10-29-2002, 05:49 PM	#14
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	A cool design, but how is it held together? The answer will most likly make me feel foolish but I still don't see that part. Sad, pics right there, still don't see it. Epoxy? ? Last edited by Blackeagle; 10-29-2002 at 06:14 PM.

10-29-2002, 06:29 PM	#15
MeltMan Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: KS Posts: 374	Once again, Kick ass. Where might these lathes be found? I need one! Machines are just too expensive. How was the base attached to the lathe while you were working on it? 4 screws? I might be able to use my drill press... muahahahaha!!! __________________ MeltMan Lurker Supreme! Last edited by MeltMan; 10-29-2002 at 06:57 PM.

10-30-2002, 08:46 AM	#18
MeltMan Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: KS Posts: 374	Riiiggghtt.... I dont think my dremel (or yours) has enough torque to spin a chunk of copper and let you lathe it at the same time. Unless you have a SUPER dremel like they sell for $70 at wal-mart. That is on my Christmas list __________________ MeltMan Lurker Supreme!

10-30-2002, 12:15 PM	#20
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Please (PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE) tell us how this thing does. This is similar to an idea I had back (the will-it-or-wont-it-spiral block) and you used many similar design techniques to what I was thinking about, like the cone in the middle. I suspect this will be an excellent performer for you ... and might give me the impetus to see if I can get my idea milled somewhere. I suspect this will have very little resistance and will outperform most if not all of the major players in the market, temp-wise (assuming you use a tough pump ... it will need to be fed by lotsa flow to avoid hot spots). __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-30-2002, 02:22 PM	#21
nicozeg Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 403	Resin is really cheap; I spend about U$5 for 1kg polyester kit. Epoxy is about 3X that. First I modeled the parts in 3d cad, and then made a cardboard shape a couple mm bigger to form a mass of material to be “sculpted” in the lathe. The beauty of working with resin is that once the original is ready, is very easy to make copies using a “silicone rubber” mould. This material is not so cheap, but sure not near $100. The brass outlets are for strength, polyester is very fragile in thin parts. Maybe with a harder type of resin it could be possible.

10-31-2002, 02:27 AM	#23
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	Would having the 'steps' facing the other way have made it more turbulant?, so the water hit the 'upright walls' instead of flowing over them?... Imagine water flowing from the outside edge inwards... PS. is it easy to add/bond other resin parts to existing resin parts?, cause you could add another section on top with only two exit barbs, cut four slots into the place where you have the four brass barbs for more even flow...

10-31-2002, 03:57 AM	#24
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	Did U consider making a 'multi-spiral' base, by moving the tool slowly from center to periphery ? It would require a slow rotation speed, or a fast tool translation. Repeating the operation as many times as necessary to get the desired shape. With copper i imagine it would be tricky...

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