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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 05-23-2003, 03:37 PM   #51
bigben2k
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Thanks for the tip 8-ball: I've relayed the good news to my Swedish friends! ( www.nordichardware.com )
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Unread 05-23-2003, 04:02 PM   #52
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you are making me buy one, but i will have to resist to the temptation, i am spending to much money on the compter
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Unread 05-23-2003, 06:22 PM   #53
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So what are your plans on getting these things down to 1/2" tubing? I think someone mentioned drilling into the barb and would like details on how to do that if possible. If it is to risky for me I guess I can use reducer fittings but that won't look as clean.

Also, I am gonna hook up a molex to it and being an electrical noob could someone explain what wire is what on the pump. There is a blue and brown wire.

I am pleased with the size of the pump and can't wait to give it a go. If all works well I will buy couple for future projects.
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Unread 05-23-2003, 06:29 PM   #54
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$9 to the UK?? I got charged $7 in the states, and thats ground shipping
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Unread 05-23-2003, 06:45 PM   #55
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memyself got it for 19 dollars, the shipment i mean.
i said it on the edit i made
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Unread 05-23-2003, 07:41 PM   #56
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Oops, i replied to Bigben's radius thread in response to his mention of the johnson pump, before seeing this thread. oh well.

The pump i picked up at a local surplus dealer (for $20 USD) is the exact model bigben linked to - the co30p5-1. Mine's kind of noisy, emitting a high pitched whine, but would be next to inaudible inside a case with a few fans running.

Free-flow testing (pumping a 5gal bucket) seemed to yield results better than the spec sheet quoted - the bucket was filled in less than 30 seconds, though i wasn't exactly looking at a stopwatch.


My primary concern is wether or not this will introduce RF noise into the 12v line if it's not brushless, which Stepback's post indicates. an oscilloscope would be the best way to go, though i can't think of any I might have direct access to.


And, as I said, I do know of (er, knew of, a few months ago, when i bought mine) a Twin Cities, MN location where they can be had for $20. I can check their stock if anyone's interested...
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Unread 05-24-2003, 03:19 AM   #57
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The $9 was for 4th class shipping. 4-6 weeks.

TO upgrade to priority shipping would be $15, with the shipping time dropping to a week-10 days.

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Unread 05-24-2003, 03:41 AM   #58
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Damn... I wanna get a pair of them now...

Can you give us any more detail, Ben?
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Unread 05-24-2003, 09:37 AM   #59
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Syncore: you can simply tap the plastic pipes. I can't speak for the Smaller Johnson/Jabsco mentioned here (the CM10P I believe?), which has pipes of 16mm OD and I suspect 12mm ID, but the Johnson CM30P7-1 has pipes of 20mm OD, 16mm ID. 16mm ID corresponds exactly to 3/8" NPT or BSP thread (12mm ID would correspond to 1/4" NPT or BSP thread).

So here's what I did:

I found a 3/8" thread to 12mm barb (sorry, forgot to rotate the pics!):



Test fit:



Tapped the pipe. I have a pic of this, but not uploaded yet --d'oh! Still, you can imagine how it works; a 3/8" BSP tap and die set was used. The result is sort of visible below:



Just make sure you use teflon tape when screwing in the barb. Don't over-tighten, or you'll break the pipe.
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Unread 05-24-2003, 09:57 AM   #60
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Might be worth putting a hose clamp around the plastic fitting so that you don't split the plastic. Just an added precaution.

To be honest, I plan to take the impeller housing off and fabricate a new one out of poly (or maybe aluminium) on a lathe.

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Unread 05-24-2003, 01:27 PM   #61
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You know, I was thinking of both those options. I may go with the hose clamp. I was thinking once to cut a new pump body out of a block of acrylic, and this would look very pimp, but I don't have the tools (and I'm not too sure about the skills either)... one for Bladerunner or someone like that, I think. Still it would look very nice if you can pull it off.
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Unread 05-25-2003, 03:57 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by nexxo
Still it would look very nice if you can pull it off.
Will give it a go, but it'll have to wait till next academic year when I have a bit more free time.

2 weeks and 1 day till finals and still counting.

Much work still to do

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Unread 05-25-2003, 07:11 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by flyingass

And, as I said, I do know of (er, knew of, a few months ago, when i bought mine) a Twin Cities, MN location where they can be had for $20. I can check their stock if anyone's interested...
I'm VERY interested!
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Unread 05-25-2003, 09:12 PM   #64
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Ok, i took mine apart, it does in fact have brushes, so my worry about rf/electrical noise still stands. If computer equipment can take the sort of noise this kind of motor would introduce, i can't imagine it would be good for the lifespan or stability of components.

And, no, this pump's motor is unlike the brushless motors used in fans. I'm not sure about hard/cd/dvd drives, but if they use brushed motors, they undoubtedly have noise reducing circuitry connected.

The suggestion of a large cap in parallel with the motor would be fairly effective. i'd say 2200uf would be a minimum, since low-voltage caps are cheap and small. Personally since i have a 10kuf cap around here somewhere, i'll be using that.



The diode would also help to reduce noise.
On my pump, brown wire is negative, blue positive.

Word of warning: DO NOT disassemble the motor housing unless you want to spend an hour (or more) trying to get the brushes back into place. it's a *huge* pain in the ass.

The supplier i mentioned in my other post was out when i checked yesterday, but they have a couple more locations i'll check with.
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Unread 05-25-2003, 09:24 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by flyingass
Ok, i took mine apart, it does in fact have brushes, so my worry about rf/electrical noise still stands. If computer equipment can take the sort of noise this kind of motor would introduce, i can't imagine it would be good for the lifespan or stability of components.
Thanks for the info.

I agree, the diode is a very good idea with this style motor. More capacitance certainly isn't going to hurt either. I'd also avoid sharing a 'molex line' between one of these pumps and a drive. I'd want the big output caps in the PSU to help absorb any transients coming from the motor.

I was leaning towards getting one of these, but this info has me less interested.
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Unread 05-26-2003, 04:33 PM   #66
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I'm starting to wonder whether there are several versions of the pump in question around... especially as mine, and the CM10P7-1 a.k.a. Jabsco, are described as "ball-bearing permanent magnetic drive". No brushes there. No mention is made of capacitors, but it says to make sure the motor housing is connected to GND (say, the PC case) and to have a fuse in-line. 1.6 A for the CM10P7-1, and 3 A for the CM30P7-1.
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Unread 05-31-2003, 08:17 AM   #67
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Somehow, I can't secure enough time to test this pump!!!

Since we're being linked to from everywhere, I thought I'd recap how to use it/set it up.

-add a 3 amp fuse (or 2.5 amps)
-add a 10'000 uF cap

Does anyone that bought one have an oscilloscope? I'd like to see the interference that this thing can dump on the 12V line, so that we can fine tune the capapitor selection here.
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Unread 05-31-2003, 10:20 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigben2k

-add a 3 amp fuse (or 2.5 amps)
-add a 10'000 uF cap

I'd strongly suggest adding the diode as flyingass suggested. It will clamp very high frequency voltage spikes that a big electrolytic capacitor won't suppess effectively.

I'm not so sure the high value electrolytic cap is of much value since it's a brush type motor. Something like a 0.1 uF film or ceramic capacitor might be better.

I'd consider leaving the fuse out if you've got a good PSU.

The purpose of the fuse is primarily to prevent excessive current draw if the the impeller is prevented from spinning. (Locked rotor current.) In that event it might be better to allow the current draw of the pump to overload the 12V rail and cause the PSU to shutdown. (Very iffy protection mechanism, I know, but if the fuse ever does its job, you've got other issues as well.)

If someone wants to send me one of these, (and a money order to pay for return shipment) I'll check the transients it puts on the 12V rail and find out what works well for suppressing them.

Edit: I'll post scope pictures as well.
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Unread 06-01-2003, 11:33 AM   #69
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I was wondering about the fuse. The instructions assume that the pump is fed from a car or motorboat power supply. I've got an Antec 550W TrueControl, that should be enough, I suppose...
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Unread 06-02-2003, 12:20 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by nexxo
I was wondering about the fuse. The instructions assume that the pump is fed from a car or motorboat power supply. I've got an Antec 550W TrueControl, that should be enough, I suppose...
The 550W TC is spec'd to put out 24A on the 12V line, certainly enough to power the pump. However, I suspect that if the impeller ever jammed, the pump would be toast before it caused that PSU to shutdown. I'd definitely use a fuse in your case.
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Unread 06-02-2003, 09:50 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by Since87
I'd strongly suggest adding the diode as flyingass suggested. It will clamp very high frequency voltage spikes that a big electrolytic capacitor won't suppess effectively.

I'm not so sure the high value electrolytic cap is of much value since it's a brush type motor. Something like a 0.1 uF film or ceramic capacitor might be better.

I'd consider leaving the fuse out if you've got a good PSU.

The purpose of the fuse is primarily to prevent excessive current draw if the the impeller is prevented from spinning. (Locked rotor current.) In that event it might be better to allow the current draw of the pump to overload the 12V rail and cause the PSU to shutdown. (Very iffy protection mechanism, I know, but if the fuse ever does its job, you've got other issues as well.)

If someone wants to send me one of these, (and a money order to pay for return shipment) I'll check the transients it puts on the 12V rail and find out what works well for suppressing them.

Edit: I'll post scope pictures as well.
Thanks for the tips, Since87.

Personally, I'd rather advise to use a fuse, regardless of the PSU.

So we've got:
-fuse
-cap
-diode

If someone volunteers a pump for the test, I'll cover shipping (you take PayPal?). I'm not done testing mine yet
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Unread 06-02-2003, 10:12 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigben2k
Personally, I'd rather advise to use a fuse, regardless of the PSU.

If someone volunteers a pump for the test, I'll cover shipping (you take PayPal?). I'm not done testing mine yet
Yeah, the fuse is probably best. (Of simple solutions.)

A circuit to shutdown the supply in the event of excessive pump current draw wouldn't be a bad idea. A resistor, transistor, and normally closed relay might be all that's required. (More likely, additional components would be needed. The circuit can't react too quickly, or high initial current draw as the pump spins up, would immediately shut the PSU down.)

Yeah, I take paypal.
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Unread 06-03-2003, 12:29 AM   #73
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I just got my pump in the mail, I'll post pics if anyone wants (but not before friday) it has two wires, brown and blue, how do I connect it to my psu?
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Unread 06-03-2003, 03:22 AM   #74
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First, I'm n00b to the forum .

Anyway, I just ordered this pump for my first setup. Since it seems no one is exactly sure what sort of PSU noise this pump could produce, why not just throw multiple caps at it? I was thinking something along the lines of a 1,000uf, a 10uf, and a 0.1uf, in addition to the diode. That way just about any noise will be filtered out by one of the caps, and the rest just kinda sit there unused. Seems like a good bit of insurance for less than a buck, or am I completely off base?
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Unread 06-03-2003, 09:55 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rufus210
why not just throw multiple caps at it? I was thinking something along the lines of a 1,000uf, a 10uf, and a 0.1uf, in addition to the diode.
No reason not to use multiple caps. It would just be more convenient if the simplest setup, that does the job, was known.
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