American weapon's laws

[PlawsWorth]

anyone that owns a H&K USP firearm? It's the pistole Laura Croft uses in the movie played by Angelina Jolie, though she has the MATCH version and in Counter-Strike the CT starts out with the USP.

[iceheart]

Gun freaks will know that the Swedish AK-5 is indeed a Belgian FN-FNC assault rifle capable of emptying it's 30 round 5.56x45mm clip in less than 3 seconds. Not something you want nutters running around with. A couple months back all hell was raised when an entire shipment of these were stolen, dunno if they ever found them .

[PlawsWorth]

It's a modified version, not the same. It has been modified so it can be used very easly with thick gloves and so it can withstand freezing temp. and beatning much better. Also it very easy to put together and vice versa. I have actually done that several times and I also have had the chance to fire a few rounds with it, though I choosed not to.

[DarkEdge]

Myself and my brother own an H&K 45, its not the USP tacticle though. My brother also owns a H&k 40. MFPMAX: You sure about that comment about not being able to get AK's and 50 cals. The 50cal would be harder to get, but they sell ak's pretty much everywhere here in texas. Not auto though, doesn't matter if you ask me though. lol

[mfpmax]

Originally posted by DarkEdge
Myself and my brother own an H&K 45, its not the USP tacticle though. My brother also owns a H&k 40. MFPMAX: You sure about that comment about not being able to get AK's and 50 cals. The 50cal would be harder to get, but they sell ak's pretty much everywhere here in texas. Not auto though, doesn't matter if you ask me though. lol

AK, definately not...
the 50 call, no, no really, cause I don't remember the name of the damn rifle, but it seems peopel can get their hands on it in the public.

[iceheart]

You don't mean the M82A1 Barret "Light Fifty" do you? This rifle is BTW also in use by the Swedish military where it's called the AG90.

[mfpmax]

Originally posted by iceheart
You don't mean the M82A1 Barret "Light Fifty" do you? This rifle is BTW also in use by the Swedish military where it's called the AG90.

I think thats the one.

[DarkEdge]

Yeah, its over a 1k I believe. I saw one in a gun mag a year back. Don't remember the price on it. That rifle is awesome though. I've seen that mother ****er explode targets on impact. lol

Since that Sniper was mentioned earlier in this thread, I thought I would just mention that the mother ****er struck again. This time he shot a 13 year old boy getting dropped off at school. Thankfully hes alive, but this is some out of control crazy shit. If I ever got ahold of that ****er i'd keep him alive for months while I tortured him, then i would turn him over to the police.

[utabintarbo]

I hope no one forgets (at least those in the US) that the primary impetus behind the 2nd amendment was not the necessity of hunting, but the fear of governmental tyranny. I am no conspiracy theorist - governments in general tend to screw things up more than get things done, so we're pretty safe - but it is no coincidence that one of the first thing Hitler did upon coming to power was to outlaw civilian gun ownership. Same with Lenin, Mao, and just about every police state since the invention of gunpowder. Just something to ponder...

Just remember: "An armed society is a polite society". I don't remember who quoted that, but the logic is unassailable.

Bob

[FARMER]

Originally posted by PlawsWorth
....It's quite hard laws, but they keep 18years old criminal kids from the ghetto's and crazy farmers from killing people whenever they get mad or drunk.

hmm..
farmers prefer blowing things up, well, I do

[pHaestus]

As long as I can keep my razor sharp hatchet in the sleeve of my coat when I go out drinking I don't care

(that is a joke; I drink mostly at home)

[mfpmax]

Originally posted by pHaestus
As long as I can keep my razor sharp hatchet in the sleeve of my coat when I go out drinking I don't care

(that is a joke; I drink mostly at home)

with the hatchet at your side

[SCompRacer]

Originally posted by bigben2k
You know... some assault weapons, like the AK47 have a (strangely called) range, where a bullet will go through anything within say, a mile (concrete wall included).

This is hyped a bit. (Edit to clarify) An AK47 round through a concrete wall at a mile is pushing it. The AK47 fires a 7.62x39mm round. Bullet weight is 125 grains with a muzzle velocity of 2365 FPS. As an example, 7.62 is .308 Winchester in US bullet size. 30 caliber. By 500 yards the AK has lost 1/2 it's velocity and 75% of it's energy. Though it wasn't mentioned here, the bullets do not tumble in flight either....unless the barrel is worn out and that can happen with any barrel that is shot past it's servicable life.

Machine-gun ownership has never been outlawed by the federal government as many people believe. Regarding Class III weapons, State Law overrides Federal Law. Check with the ATF or your state's attorney general's office to find out. In the State of Illinois, I had to have an FFL (Federal Firearms License) in order to have a Class III license to deal in or own Class III select fire weapons. License Fee was $200 when I was a dealer but it went up to $500 in the early '80's. Some States you only needed to pay the transfer tax when purchasing the weapon. At that time it was a $200 per weapon fee.

Silencers and suppressors were covered under the National Firearm Act but were also overridden by State and local law. Bullet velocity is one area that determined what you heard as anything over roughly 1000 FPS (air temperature has an effect) would make a ballistic crack though the suppression would made it difficult to determine where the shot originated.

Prior to 1986 it was legal to modify certian semi auto weapons to full auto, but you had to apply to the feds and get approval before you could do it. You had to provide a name of the owner too. Only when you got the title back could the modifications be legally made.

Class III select fire weapons can be legally sold to law enforcement agencies and Class 3 dealers. It is the buyers responsibility to check local and State laws to the legality of your purchase as the Feds don't do it for you. Before a Class III weapon changes hands, you have to apply to the Feds so they know what your intending to sell and to whom. The weapon does not change hands until it is approved by the Feds. If approved, the seller recieves the title for that weapon with the new buyers name on it. It used to be a $200 transfer fee, no idea if it's the same or higher now.

Someone mentioned it was not easy to modify some weapons and that is true in some cases. Some weapons require machine work. Some just the right parts. Another law that was changed back in the '80's is what defined a machine gun. Prior to the law change, the weapon in question was sent to a crime lab and if the weapon could fire more than one round with the trigger held to the rear it was classified as a machine gun. The law was changed in that if the weapon contained even one small part from a machine gun, it could be classified as such. ("....is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot automatically more than one shot"). That was due to drop in stuff that could be substituted for easily visible machining. Stiff fines and jail time apply, so with ownership comes responsibility.

EDIT:

As far as sniper rifles go, they are built to shoot with a higher degree of accuracy that a service grade weapon. But it doesn't make the gun any more dangerous than a service grade or out of the box rifle. Sure sounds glamorous though. The shooter determines the degree of accuracy that can be achieved with the weapon in hand. Depends what your shooting at too. I've seen guys that can punch x's all day at the range and miss an easy shot at a deer in the field. They just don't have it in them to kill even an animal though they won't even admit it to themselves. Then you have sick types that can kill another human indiscriminately in cold blood.

[decodeddiesel]

SComp, with the nature of my current employment I have gone through many many urban warfare courses, weapons familiarizations, demos and other fun stuff. One such event was a demonstration of what exactly is "cover" and what is "concealment". Cover being defined by the US Army as a surface which will stop small arms fire and concealment being something which will conceal you form the enemy but may not stop small arms fire. During the demo we saw how numerous projectiles are effected by various things encountered on the battlefield...cinderblocks, trees of various sizes, hmvee doors both "armored" and non armored, steel plates, tires, etc. We saw everything from 5.56 (ie .223) from an M-16 and M-249 and 7.62 NATO (ie .308) from an M60 to 7.62x39 from an AK47 and upwards to a .50 cal M2 Browning and a 14.5mm Soviet heavy machinegun. You might be supprised to know that a 7.62mm round fired from an AK47 100 meters away (virtually miles away in Urban Combat) has enough juice to penetrate a cinderblock or brick wall and still kill a person. You may be supprised how easilly high powered rounds can penetrate things many think are impenetrable. I know it supprised me...hell it scared the shit out of me as this is an occupational hazard most others simply don't have to face.

[SCompRacer]

decodeddiesel, I should have elaborated more when I stated that based on the one mile range originally quoted. Always beware when stating absolutes.... I don't have the training you do but have some experience with armorers and weapons up to .50 cal. 100 meters is only, what, 328 feet. At close range, it depends on the quality and thickness of the concrete wall. Cinder blocks, depending where you hit them, as there are hollow sections in it. Then you can get into bullet selection, like armor piercing. But at 1 mile, use a .50 cal.

You got a real on the job hazard man! Sincerely hope you never, ever, need to use your training.

[bigben2k]

Well, I'm glad we cleared that up. I didn't mean to be quoted on the "1 mile" distance, it was just a guesstimate. What escapes me is the technical name of this range. The point still stands: one of those high-power bullet will penetrate anything within a certain range. It is spooky!

[mfpmax]

a clik(sp) perhaps?

[decodeddiesel]

One Kilck = 1 Kilometer
One Mile = 1600 meters

At 1600 meters a .50 cal, even a SLAP-T (Sabot Long-Range Armor Piercing - Tracer) would have a hardtime with thick concrete, steel reinforced concrete, or steel. At such range vehicle mounted weapons such as a recoilless rifle, 25mm chaingun, 30mm chaingun, TOW missle, 120mm maingun, 105mm maingun, Hellfire missle, Javelin missle, etc. is needed to really be effective. However all of these weapon systems can strike and kill vehicle targets out to about 3 miles+, but are thankfully are unavailable to the public.

[mfpmax]

mmm, hellfire....

God I miss FirePower on the Discovery Channel.

[N8]

I am on the engineering staff/technical support at an Impact (shock physics) research facility. I get to build, design and modify projectiles and targets for (material science) research. We can do atomic level research on materials if need be during shock impact loading. Pretty damn cool job. We need flat (planar) impacts, therefore I am an expert on getting the projectile face, targets, and materials flat and polished if need be (ooo-relevance to heatsinks, etc.) We have projectiles and research guns 30mm, 50mm, 75mm, and 100mm. The 30mm projectiles can be shot up to 2.5 Km/sec, and the larger projectiles up to 1.5 Km/sec. yea.... they will go through just about anything at that size and speed. One shot usually takes 1-2 hours to clean the mess. We don't go for distance obviously, but you gotta wonder how far a 30mm slug would go at 2.5 Km/sec.

Edit: those are projectile diameters, not length. Envision 100mm bore and a projectile @ 1.5 Km/sec.

[BillA]

well, how about the fact - rather than just words

after being awakened by breaking glass (classic NRA prose here)
at 4 AM I 'met' a stranger in my living room, crouched towards me
I shot him just below the right eye with a .357 wadcutter
he drowned in his blood several minuets later (and ruined a new carpet !)
not arrested, no-billed by the grand jury

do I sleep at night ? just fine thanks (but I do have a homicide on my record now)
BTW, ring the doorbell at my house

[mfpmax]

moral of the story...

break bones with a bat...

They don't leave the same mess that knives and guns do

[decodeddiesel]

Originally posted by SCompRacer
You got a real on the job hazard man! Sincerely hope you never, ever, need to use your training.

Well I'm afraid I already have been on a 2 way shooting range once...can't really get into specifics like BillA did, but it was over fast, I nearly pissed my pants and didn't settle down for about 2 hours after it was over. Getting shot at is not cool.

[decodeddiesel]

Originally posted by N8
I am on the engineering staff/technical support at an Impact (shock physics) research facility. I get to build, design and modify projectiles and targets for (material science) research. We can do atomic level research on materials if need be during shock impact loading. Pretty damn cool job. We need flat (planar) impacts, therefore I am an expert on getting the projectile face, targets, and materials flat and polished if need be (ooo-relevance to heatsinks, etc.) We have projectiles and research guns 30mm, 50mm, 75mm, and 100mm. The 30mm projectiles can be shot up to 2.5 Km/sec, and the larger projectiles up to 1.5 Km/sec. yea.... they will go through just about anything at that size and speed. One shot usually takes 1-2 hours to clean the mess. We don't go for distance obviously, but you gotta wonder how far a 30mm slug would go at 2.5 Km/sec.

Edit: those are projectile diameters, not length. Envision 100mm bore and a projectile @ 1.5 Km/sec.

I have a hell of a lot of experience with a 120mm SABOT and HEAT rounds fired from the M256 Smoothbore cannon on an M1A1 Abrams Main Battle Tank. A Sabot (meaning "boot") projectile has a much smaller diameter projectile than 120mm, more like 30mm and is surrounded by the "boot" which breaks away within 1000m of leaving the barrel. This ensures it travels straight down the tube, all propellant gasses are sealed, and it is stabialized during it's initial 10m of flight before the projectile fins become effective. It travels at roughly 2.0Km/sec+ and is made of depleted uranium encased in Tungsten. The projectile weighs about 6.1kg, and can strike and kill an armored Main Battle Tank at 3200m-5000m+ (depending on Gunner skill and visual/thermal conditions). Probably the closest real life application to your work N8. I wish I could lap a thermal surface like you do though, damn dude.

[utabintarbo]

Originally posted by unregistered

BTW, ring the doorbell at my house

I'll just call from a pay phone down the street! OK?

I hope your story was well-publicised - give burglars a second thought, eh?

Bob