I Must Agree With Gmat

[bigben2k]

I love Michael Moore! Thanks for a great link!

[nOv1c3]

Originally posted by TerraMex
I stand corrected. Secured it a more valid statement.

A friend of mine just emailed me this...

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...543296,00.html

I havent written them , so dont come after me .

Ahh thats nothing but dribble :/


Michael Moore! Is nothing more than a liberal democrated lap dog

[phreenet]

Michael Moore is just an idiot. Stop over complicating the situation

[cybrsamurai]

I haven’t really followed Michael Moores more recent acts, but I did follow him a few years back and I can honestly say that I think he has done more good for the people of this country than all the money grubbing politicians in Washington ever have.

Michael Moore is just an idiot. Stop over complicating the situation

I can only assume that this statement is in jest. Even if he is only doing what he is doing to make money, or be a "democratic lapdog" he is doing a damn good job. This in my book would absolve him of idiocy

[phreenet]

Well your book is werid then. Because take for example. Mike Tyson (sp?), well he has more money than you can imagine having, and I am sure people will agree he is an idiot. Being able to make money doesn't make you a non-idiot.

[cybrsamurai]

Well your book is werid then. Because take for example. Mike Tyson (sp?), well he has more money than you can imagine having, and I am sure people will agree he is an idiot. Being able to make money doesn't make you a non-idiot.

Your argument is a fallacy. Being a professional boxer is an entirely different profession. There are probably hundreds of professions where it’s possible to get rich being a moron. However politics, journalism, and film making isn’t one of them.

[lukasz70]

well everyone is talking about if it was right to attack and crap like that, but has anyone considered the US history in cases like this?

but what i still don’t understand is how can Americans elect a president that doesn’t even speak proper English!!! they actually have a book on his stupidity!!! called BUSHISMS ,

and if anyone here listens to CNN or any other American news, its all American propaganda screened to tells us what they want us to hear, this is just an example
"Reports in the Dutch newspaper Trouw (2/21/00, 2/25/00) and France's Intelligence Newsletter (2/17/00) have revealed that several officers from the US Army's 4th Psychological Operations (PSYOPS) Group at Ft. Bragg worked in the news division at CNN's Atlanta headquarters last year, starting in the final days of the Kosovo War. "
some more examples
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/nov2001/cnn-n06.shtml
http://www.counterpunch.org/

anyway, the US only acts to protect their interests!!! (in this case OIL!!) they've even been saying it all along, that they will take control of the oil and let American companies setup their, and thats the only thing they are protecting now, who cares about the looting going on, they are guarding the oil ministry and oil wells

" Iraq has the world’s second largest proven oil reserves. According to oil industry experts, new exploration will probably raise Iraq’s reserves to 2-300 billion barrels of high-grade crude, extraordinarily cheap to produce, leading to a gold-rush of profits for international oil firms in a post-Saddam setting. The four giant firms located in the US and the UK have been keen to get back into Iraq, from which they were excluded with the nationalization of 1972. They face companies from France, Russia, China, Japan and elsewhere, who already have major concessions. But in a post-war military governments, imposed by Washington, the US-UK companies expect to overcome their rivals and gain the most lucrative oil deals that will be worth hundreds of billions, even trillions of dollars in profits in the coming decades.

look at their past, the war between Russia and Afghanistan, the US gave the afgans all the weapons to fight russia not to mention trained them!!!

oh and does anyone know anything about what they did in Nicaragua?

how about fund a military government, by selling weapons to the middle east. and once that government was over thrown by the outraged people in Nicaragua, the US funded a militia cause they thought the new government was to Left wing. and after that they pretty much created their own political party puppet to bring on their style of government.

as for iraq, attacking was on their agenda a long before the UN inspectors went in, their ships and troops were their long before the inspectors finished. oh, and now that its over, did the us find any chemical weapons? NOOO, all cnn says its that, "this might have been used to create chemical weapons" but they still haven’t found any.

now im not one of those US is evil activists, i like the US, but their need to control everything they can is really annoying.
as for the UN to, they should have broken up that bureaucracy a long time ago, and its to bad that the US cant leave, because if they did, they would have to pay off alot of money they owe to the UN.

im not speaking out of personal views here, these are topics i actually wrote papers on, and i dont think anyone should go and state their point of view/comment unless they actually went out and researched whats being argued, those that are just repeating what they hear on the news are the ones that the propaganda is geared towards.

i actually had a really good link about the entire thing in Nicaragua, but surprise surprise, the FBI closed the site.

oh, and another good source of profit the US had used to fund their interests in brazil was that the CIA was involved in drug trafficking!!, once again link doesn't work anymore, this is from memory

but here is a good link i just found that talks about a few of these things http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fo.../Drugs_IA.html

[phreenet]

and if anyone here listens to CNN or any other American news, its all American propaganda screened to tells us what they want us to hear, this is just an example

One day you will learn its all propaganda. Inlcuding the crap your socialist country Canada is feeding you. And the only difference between USA crap TV is that ours is run by big business, which acts like an extra check and balance for the govt.


Ohh yeah and Michael Moore is still an idiot.

[phreenet]

Sorry for the multiple post, tring to weed through his philibuster of a post.

as for iraq, attacking was on their agenda a long before the UN inspectors went in, their ships and troops were their long before the inspectors finished. oh, and now that its over, did the us find any chemical weapons? NOOO, all cnn says its that, "this might have been used to create chemical weapons" but they still haven’t found any.

It wasn't just about the WMD, we went in there and liberated people who had no quality of life other than keep quiet or disapear. Furthermore, more than likey Saddam had already distributed the weapons to terrorist organizations or other partner countries. Ohh yeah and don't forget the oil.

Ohh yeah and stop stroken the UN, we all know they are a useless body of bickering backstabing countries incapable of making any sound decissons. I mean just the other day they put cuba on their human rights commitee, I mean WTF? Backwords ass people I swear.

Ohh yeah, and stop mentioning CNN, j00 know CNN is more on your side so you are just slamming your own cause. Everyone knows CNN is the worst liberal crap running on the air. If you want to slam something try Fox News. They are pretty conservative. But then again you are a liberal yourself, socialist as well, so..... that just stregthens my belief that the leftist are disorganized.


unf unf

[cybrsamurai]

Everyone knows CNN is the worst liberal crap running on the air.

Out of curiosity what makes CNN "the worst liberal crap running on the air". I don't really watch tv so I was wondering where this comes from. I had always thought that as far as news goes the big players (CNN, BBC, NBC, ABC etc...) were fairly unbiased.

[lukasz70]

Ohh yeah and stop stroken the UN, we all know they are a useless body of bickering backstabing countries incapable of making any sound decissons. I mean just the other day they put cuba on their human rights commitee, I mean WTF? Backwords ass people I swear.

yeah all they are good for is giving out food aid

it wasn't just about the WMD, we went in there and liberated people who had no quality of life other than keep quiet or disapear

please, give me a break, thats just a front they put up for the stupid people that dont know whats going on, they dont give a sh*t about the people, thats why they didn't do anything about the looting, instead they protected the oil ministry building from being broken into. and as for the WMD, what weapons? they wouldn't even let the inspectors finish.

as for what canada is feeding us, your right its all the same crap, but for the truth, i dont really consult the TV or newspapers. its all about the internet and finding the truth through more then one source.

oh and no im not a socialist!!!
i think im more of a conservative

but im not letting that get into this discussion. im arguing against the US but i can just as easily turn it around and argue against iraq, im not a one sided person, but i dislike thier motives now and in in the past which is why im arguing against them.

oh one more example of how the US is only after thier own interests
not long ago, (maybe 2 years not sure exactly), isreal attacked palestine and where was the US then? they were saying lets have peace and shit like that. BUT if it was palestine that attacked isreal, the US would get involved 100% if isreal needed them!!!
hopefully everyone knows why, coughJEWISHcough,

OMG im turning into my dad this is exactly what i argue against with him

[utabintarbo]

Originally posted by lukasz70
...

BUT if it was palestine that attacked isreal, the US would get involved 100% if isreal needed them!!!
hopefully everyone knows why, coughJEWISHcough,

OMG im turning into my dad this is exactly what i argue against with him

So your dad is an anti-semitic bigot , too?

I think someone's true colors really came to light here....

[airspirit]

Why on Earth did someone reincarnate this cesspool? For chrissake, people: just let it die.

Fact #1: The US went in. We won. The war is over except for minor craziness here and there that fall more under "law and order" than combat situations. There's no point arguing whether or not we should go in because we did it.

Fact #2: Now that a source of mideast terror funding is gone, it will be easier to attempt a peaceful resolution of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. I doubt there will be as many wannabe terrorists willing to blow themselves up if they aren't getting paid obscene amounts of money to do it, and that is just one less thing to hold up the peace process. The results of this, however, are speculation: some people are just stupid.

Perhaps this will lead to better peace and stability in the region. That's my bet. It also helps that Arafat isn't the head of the Palestinians anymore ... that dude was nuts. Perhaps his replacement will see that peace is a better tool than terror to get what he wants for his people. If the conflict in Israel can be settled, I would suspect that many of the problems over there will greatly diminish.

At any rate, there is no point sowing hate and discontent here by bumping these ancient threads so lets just cut it out already. Lets move on to more important topics, like fast cars, fast computers, and fast women (boobies!).

[lukasz70]

Originally posted by utabintarbo
So your dad is an anti-semitic bigot , too?

I think someone's true colors really came to light here....

no, he's polish lol, and no, he's not very political/prejudice, but with older polish/european people its always about the jewish, , but you cant really pass judgement on that unless you grew up in poland 50 years ago so dont call anyone a bigot unless you know what people have gone through. and no im not a bigot, i actually have jewish friends and the US helping isreal thing in my previous post is something they even joked about.

and just cause im saying this, it doesn't mean thats what my personal views are, which is what i said in my first post!!!

think of it as an essay, you argue for or against something, and like i said in the previous post as well, i could have argued for america instead. read before you pass judgement,

Why on Earth did someone reincarnate this cesspool? For chrissake, people: just let it die.

cause its fun to argue

Lets move on to more important topics, like fast cars, fast computers, and fast women (boobies!).

[nOv1c3]

Originally posted by lukasz70

cause its fun to argue

Ohhh Politics and world affairs you just goda love it

[lukasz70]

you miss quoted me nOv1c3, but im sure that was just an accident
the is for a different comment,

as for argueing being fun, the fun part is seeing somone proove their point after contradicting them regardless of what you believe, they can be right and you can agree with what they said, but when they cant support what they said...
i mean this is not to say i dont do the same, i can throw out a comment and see if someone will question it. thats exactly what i did here, but instead of being contradicted or argued against i was called a bigot. :shrug:

[utabintarbo]

Originally posted by lukasz70
...

...but instead of being contradicted or argued against i was called a bigot. :shrug:

Merely pointing out the obvious. No argument required!

If you do not see how that, and subsequent statements ("...and no im not a bigot, i actually have jewish friends...") are not evidence of that, than there is nothing I can do to help you see it!

Bob

[lukasz70]

definition of bigot

"One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ"

or how about this one

"a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own"

i really dont see how i fit into anyone of these definitions,

but i guess your one of those people that resort to name calling when they cant refute a statement. unless your taking everything literally and believe that what someone says is thier personal beliefs and way of life


and this is when arguing turns nasty

anyway, what does everyone else think?
are we taking it to far?

[utabintarbo]

Originally posted by lukasz70
...

but i guess your one of those people that resort to name calling when they cant refute a statement. unless your taking everything literally and believe that what someone says is thier personal beliefs and way of life


...

I am one of those people who calls a spade a spade. And, yes, I guess I do take people literally.

I don't know you, I only have what you have written to go on, and what you have written evidences someone who bears both covert and overt prejudices. Sorry.:shrug:

Bob

[lukasz70]

Originally posted by utabintarbo
I am one of those people who calls a spade a spade. And, yes, I guess I do take people literally.

I don't know you, I only have what you have written to go on, and what you have written evidences someone who bears both covert and overt prejudices. Sorry.:shrug:

Bob

um, i completely understand where your coming from, and i agree that based on that one thing i wrote you were justified in making that assumption/statement. but like you said, you dont know me,

its just that when i argue, my points are based on what i know or statements i've heard other people use, with the american history and the UN i talked about in my first post here, that was from actual research for essays i did a year ago. the part that started this controversy is what i heard other people use (bad idea), and i only said that for arguments sake, i thought someone would have a rebuttal towards it, i didn't intend to offend anyone and at the same time subject myself to name calling.

its just that when i approach an argument/discusion, like i said, i treat it like an essay (regardless of personal views). i'll make a point and i'll support it, but with the statement you disliked, i didn't really support that, cause i had no idea how, because its what i heard someone else say.

well i now understand why people say politics and religion should not be discussed.

[utabintarbo]

Originally posted by lukasz70
...

well i now understand why people say politics and religion should not be discussed.

Yeah, don't get me started on religion!

[lukasz70]

lol
not even touching that one



what about starting a new debate?

heres a topic
legalization of marijuana
should someone start a separate thread for this one, maybe even a poll lol

[cybrsamurai]

I dont smoke pot. I believe that it should be legal. I think alchohol is more of a social problem than marijuana could ever be.


RELIGION: Im not religious, I think religion can be a good thing it can also be a very bad thing. The tensions in the middle east are (bad) the crusades (bad) murder of pesents under the rule of the japanese buddhist temples (bad) etc... Helping people cope with uncertainty of death (good), Helping people through tough times (good), helping draw a more unified community (can be good) etc..

Its hard to say whether the absence of religion would be good or bad. Religion breeds fanaticism and complacency wich are both bad however I would say it makes alot more people happy and fulfilled than fanatics.

[phreenet]

How did you guys get from, "I hate France, Saddam is going down, the UN sucks, Micheal Moore is an idiot" to I don't smoke pot but it should be legal?

[cybrsamurai]

not sure but seemed like fun.