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05-16-2003, 10:21 AM | #26 |
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Good point, I never looked at it that way!
Are we, by nature, xenophobic? Or are we just too busy to pay attention to the wonders of cultural/ethnic differences? |
05-16-2003, 10:42 AM | #27 | |
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05-16-2003, 11:11 AM | #28 | |
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interesting perspective indeed. i have nothing against canada and their gun laws. and, there IS a registration process in the united states. if you buy a gun here today, the firearm is registered with the local law enforcement. there are guns out there that were purchased too long ago that are not in the system, but i find it hard to believe that many of these legally obtained items are used in crime. generally these are the types of things passed through families. part of the problem with this bill is that it's primarily targeting firearms that are NOT used in violent crimes. how often do you see a criminal use a browning semi auto shotgun to rob a grocery store? not very often. what about a mini-14? never. they use mostly cheap stuff, or illegal stuff from the street. like a tec9 or a mac10. i don't even hear of much gun crime coming from the ever popular "sportster" series of rifles (ar15). the other note, on americans owning guns. that's a big part of how this country was formed. the right to bear arms, and the right to defend ourselves. look at our earliest militia. it was formed of private citizens such as farmers and merchants with firearms. and they did pretty damn good. as far as the increase in crime, i do not think that specifically is related to the fact that people own guns. in fact, i don't think that at all. i recently had an argument with someone about walmart selling guns, and the person was basically blaming walmart, and NOT the person doing the crime. this is assanine. it is responsibility of the person. it is their responsibility to use firearms appropriately. educated people, less oppressive situations, and people not so pissed off would make a lot less of this. my impression of canadia is that it's generally filled with rather pleasant people, fairly content with each other (perhaps with the exception of quebec). i believe it was one of our military leaders during WW2 that when canada decided to get involved in the war said "canada has an army?". i think the differences between canada and the US are quite large in that respect. it very well could be the "melting pot" of cultures here in the states. but, canada also seems to have settled to a fairly compacent and inactive state. they're very neutral for the most part as a country, and it seems, at least from when i've been there, so are the people. there are of course always exceptions to the rule, but it seems very much so. it seems very much like the heart of the midwest, with a strange dialect. if you are in the "slower" parts of the country, it would probably seem much more like canada. when a cop dies here, which is very rare, everyone knows about it. it's a HUGE deal, everyone talk about nothing but for months, huge ceremonies, lots of officials talking, blah blah. if even a shooting occurs, everyone hears about it, and it's definitely no daily occurance. just depends on where you are. and despite the fact that i live in a city with the highest church/capita and quite likely the larget gay/capita in the US, there are guns here just as much as anywhere else. guns don't kill people, whoever pulls the trigger kills people.
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05-16-2003, 11:37 AM | #29 | ||
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I managed to dig up a page full of stats (you be the judge), about the US:
http://www.mppgv.org/a%20closer%20look.htm Maybe I can find something similar for Canada. Quote:
Last I checked, LA alone had that many homicides. BC has a high number of Asian immigrants. Pattern? Quote:
Last edited by bigben2k; 05-16-2003 at 11:49 AM. |
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05-16-2003, 12:45 PM | #30 |
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BB2k- texas is pretty big on guns, I think most states have way less proliferation.
My theory for such xenophobia is my "dick size" theory. People are naturally insecure, so they must convince themselves that they have a bigger dick than everyone else. They do this by convincing themselves that their brand spanking new $500 gfx card (which they will replace in 6 months) makes them superior to the peons around them. Or by deciding that they are superior to other races. Of course, I have no qualifications other than 4 years observing high school students and watching the news... I think automatic weapons should be banned; I don't think there is any legitimate reason (besides collecting) for owning such a weapon. However, beyond that, it should be easy for a trained, law abiding citizen to obtain a weapon- crime prevention is important, but so are our rights. The right to bear arms is a defense against dictatorship and similar problems in the government. If neccesary, a citizen can sacrifice himself for the good of the people and shoot the bastard. The only hard part is keeping things in the right order; the sane citizen shooting the crazy politician, not the crazy citizen shooting the sane politician. |
05-16-2003, 01:11 PM | #31 |
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BigBen
I live in BC and I think those numbers are little skewed. Most of the murders around here are gang related, one gang killing another gang over drugs and turf. Very few regular citizens are "at the wrong place at the wrong time" the gangs are pretty good at killing one another and not letting it boil over into the streets. So for me murders like that don't count because its gangs not the general plublic. And the thing about the asians more or less true. Its not the asian people themselves its the asian gangs. The hells angles run BC marijuana trade and a lot of the other gangs do the dirty work. Operating grow-ops, dealing, enforcing etc. And those gangs tend to be the newcomers which are asian immigrants. Also the local gangs don't seem to do the spray and pray tactic that american ones do, which of course end up killing by-standers. The locals seem to very proficient at killing those and only those they wish to kill. Take the killing of Bindi Johal for example he was a very prominent gang member in the East-Indian gangs. Years back he pissed off some Chinese gang, the Lotus I think, by kidnapping the leader's nefew or brother or something to that extent. Well the Lotus got back at him, while he was downtown (Vancouver) at a club called Richards on Richards, which was packed full of people some lotus hitman entered shot Bindi in the neck and left with out anyone else getting hurt and without being seen either. As far as crime that effects regular law-abiding citizens here in BC most of it is property crime. I think we're the highest on the continent where as states like texas and nevada are lowest. In fact the city I live in, Surrey, was labled the car theft capital of the world. Everyone around here has been robbed several times, but thats because the theives know no one will do anything ( too layed back? too spinless? too high?). Defending yourself is all but illegal, the thieves don't get prosecuted. The RCMP are useless and are nothing but glorified social workers with guns, who are criminals themselves. Iroc409's comments are pretty much true about us Canadians but only outside a hockey rink |
05-16-2003, 01:31 PM | #32 |
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LOL!
Thanks for chiming in. I never knew that BC was like that, and it's nice to know some of the details. I've always liked BC, and thought about moving there, a few years back, until I came across the unemployment figures. You gotta love the RCMP for keeping a low profile You also bring up a good point: a lot of homicides happen within criminal groups. there's another statistical search right there! I guess I'd hate to see them use bigger guns, and end up on the receiving end of a stray bullet, as a result. In that light, I'd favor a ban on fully-automatics. IMO, there's a correlation between unemployment, and homicide rates. Give everyone something to do, and they'll probably avoid shooting each other. Leading a life of crime imposes no limits on the level of violence. Maybe the ban ought to be on gangs, not guns! |
05-16-2003, 02:06 PM | #33 | |
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Full-auto weapons have no place in civilian hands. When I was speaking against the ban earlier it was in reference to the banning of reasonable semi-automatics. Why are they banning those? |
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05-16-2003, 02:18 PM | #34 | |
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I believe that the objection is because they can be easily converted to fully automatics. Maybe if the NRA had a decent opposition, and the gun manufacturers (a great number of which is ironically, in Canada) would cooperate in this direction, it wouldn't have become such a fuss. Strangely, I don't have a problem with semi-automatics either: there is a sporting value to it, and although it can be labelled as a luxury more than anything, it's darn practical. Banning those would fall under banning something for the illegitimate use, where there is the possibility of a legitimate use, not unlike software copying. I don't see a legitimate use/need for a fully automatic rifle though.:shrug: |
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05-16-2003, 02:55 PM | #35 | |
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In Canada there is more a less a ban on full autos. Theres only a few exceptions, if you military you of course can have a full auto on the job. If you have one of those grandfathered full auto liscences, full autos were banned in the 70's and those with liscences were allowed to keep them but no more have been issued. The next and the one I benefit from is a Movie liscence given to an armoury business, this allows anyone on the bussiness liscence to transport and shoot "movie" guns, of course movie guns can only fire movie blanks but the exeption is that the guns have to be tested and are legally allowed to be taken the range and fired with live ammo. But a ban on full autos won't help as illegal ones are easy to get. Customs here on the west coast are severly under-staffed. Years back when the USSR broke up a large number of crappy russian, czech etc. full autos ended up in the local black market, it was so bad that they were trying to sell them in the local gun stores. Of course this was never really put on the news as there really isn't a way to stop it. Plus all the drug runners going across the border are continually bringing in more illegal arms from the states, recently the rcmp were able to stop one shipment. I could go on, but I highly doubt any amount of laws will stop the illegal importing, manufacturing, converting of full autos.
All of these people that are saying there should be a ban on full autos, have you ever shot one? Live rounds or blanks doesn't matter but do you have any personal experience to come to the conclusion that there is no reason to own one? If not how do you form an opinion on something you've never done? Isn't the best way to learn something is through experience, or is putting your faith in the government, media, special interest groups to tell the truth good enough to base an opinion on? Quote:
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05-16-2003, 03:27 PM | #36 | |
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While I've never fired a full auto (for obvious reasons). I have fired my buddy's Famae SAF (SIG based, chilean manufactured MP5 equivalent but neutered to semiauto only - and rightfully so)... and let me tell you it shoots as fast as you can pull the trigger - which should be more than fast enough for anyone with good intentions. Some background... The famae is a restricted firearm in canada and the few of them that have been imported can carry no more than 5 bullets per magazine and fire in semi-auto mode only. Since it is restricted in canada you need an ATT (Authorization to Transport) to transport it *anywhere*. Usually standing ATTs are granted for transport directly between the owner's home and his/her gunclub. However, 'Single Use' ATTs can be applied for and obtained (for transport from owners home to cottage for example or when ownership is transferred). A little bit about the 'movie guns'... Movie guns are real guns. They can fire real bullets and they can fire blanks. The big difference is the permit under which they are purchased. Normally you or a company can't purchase a full auto gun in canada. But a production company can - with a 'movie permit'. Admittedly I'm a little foggy on details but that's what an informed source told me. EDIT: btw... restricted permits have been issued since the 1970s (to civilians). Here's how the story goes... a few years ago they (not sure about specifics) they changed the status of some previously 'restricted' guns to 'prohibited'. Those who owned said firearms were given notice that they had until a certain date to transfer them to someone with a prohibited permit or to hand them over to the police. However, those who held onto the firearms past the due-date (taking a big risk) were later given prohibited permits. Last edited by ymboc; 05-16-2003 at 03:41 PM. |
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05-16-2003, 04:16 PM | #37 |
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I don’t see any need for any civilians to own a full auto gun. I don’t think that the citizens in the US even with full auto guns could put up any kind of military resistance to our government. (Its prolly pretty tough to shoot down an F-16 with an M4, or stop an Abrams) People that believe they need to own a lot of firepower to keep our government in check are deluding them selves. The US army makes quick work of places where everyone and thier uncle have RPG's and full auto rifles, we wouldnt be any different.
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05-16-2003, 04:41 PM | #38 | |
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As for my statement you quoted and said i was out of line. Maybe I'm being too picky about grammer (my gf must be wearing off on me) but when you said "Full-auto weapons have no place in civilian hands" along with a few others with similar satements it just comes off as if you have no intention in believing that there is no or might be an exception ever. That just sounds a little closed minded to me and throughout human history closed-minded statements and thinking has always caused us trouble. I was just trying to point that out. Sorry if I offened anyone |
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05-16-2003, 04:59 PM | #39 |
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I've shot fully automatic weapons, and that is the reason that I support banning them.
Mind you, now: I'm a firm supporter of gun rights and ownership. I think everyone should be taught to use a gun, and I feel that it is part of our cultural heritage to be able to go out into the woods and splatter animals into goo and carry out drive by shootings on stop signs, not to mention putting holes in people that illegally enter my house. I do feel, however, that though semi-automatic "assault rifles" are perfectly fine since there is no significant difference from any other semiauto out there, that automatic weapons should be banned. There is no purpose to use one for hunting: they kick so much and cause such inaccuracy that they would be nearly useless. When using an automatic, you need to start low and sweep up through a target ... and the upward sweep would be greatly aided by the kick of the weapon. This is absolute insanity when putting in a hunter's perspective. The only purpose of automatic weapons is to drop large numbers of targets quickly. As added clarification: the purpose is to drop large numbers of ADVANCING targets quickly. If you start spraying at some deer with an auto, they will scatter and you will have no hope of bagging one. If you start spraying at some soldiers advancing on you, you will likely kill a few at least. The only purpose of automatic weapons is being able to kill multiple people at a time, not multiple deer, elk, or beer bottles. Since the modern purpose of firearm ownership is not to repel an army but rather is for personal use and protection (and your house will probably not be invaded by hordes of junkies any time soon), there is no lawful purpose for owning automatic weapons. The only domestic use would be the same use they saw in the prohibition era: gunning down other people. But let me tell you, the day someone trys to disarm me of my more sensible weapons is the day they'll get some rough surgery and acquire some advanced internal aircooling.
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05-16-2003, 05:29 PM | #40 | |
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05-16-2003, 06:25 PM | #41 |
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Me? Blunt? Well I never ....
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05-16-2003, 09:17 PM | #42 | |
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once again i concur with you. it's interesting, but to think about fully automatic weapons, look at the army. the standard issue m16 is now, i believe, NOT fully automatic. last i heard, the newest variant is safe, 1-shot, 3-rd burst. i was at an interactive training session for the nat'l guard here a couple years ago, which is the actual similator the guard uses. it was pretty cool, included the beretta 9mm, m16, SAW, and m60. the m16s were all not 3rd and 1rd, i believe this to be accurate in the regular forces. although, the g36 is still available in fully auto (some swat teams are now using these weapons), i'm sure before the army adopts this rifle it will be available to only 3rd burst. or, perhaps the army will skip the g36 (i dunno why... it's amazing) for a newer system such as hk's "smart" system, or their recoilless rifle. just something to point out. if our foot soldiers don't use them, why should we? granted, they still have the SAW and the m60's. but you need something to sprraaaaaaaayyy with once in a while.
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05-16-2003, 09:19 PM | #43 | |
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seen a few collectors around with things like the BAR and the browning .30 cal. lol... now that's a home defense system! if you're looking to fire it though, why break an antique? get one of the great reproductions available. i believe the BAR is available in a semi repro, as is the m1 garand and i believe also the m1 carbine.
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05-22-2003, 12:16 PM | #44 | |
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Re: Gun Bunnies
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05-22-2003, 12:29 PM | #45 | |
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05-22-2003, 12:32 PM | #46 | |
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Re: Re: Gun Bunnies
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05-22-2003, 12:43 PM | #47 | |
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05-22-2003, 12:52 PM | #48 | |
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05-22-2003, 01:33 PM | #49 |
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Actually, there is a large african-american population in the USA.
In Canada, if you're "african-american", you're probably actually from Africa! Actually, the "black" population in Canada comes from a wide number of countries, wether it's somewhere in Africa, or Haiti, Tahiti, or somewhere in South America. Their culture is a bit unique, but they blend in very well. In the USA, the "african-american" culture seems to have taken a road of it's own, and maybe it's just me, but I don't think they blend in very well at all: they're loud, very vocal, and generally seem to be more concerned by the social scene, instead of concentrating on more serious aspects of life. Now don't get me wrong: I'm not biased against them, not at all, I rather see them as different, that's all! When I was growing up in Canada, most of my friends were of different ethnicity, and came from various countries, including Lebanon, Vietnam, Chile, Congo, Tahiti, Iran, Belgium, France, Greece, etc... I really enjoyed the flavor of the various cultures. Looking at the crime statistics, there is a predominance of african-americans involved in crimes. I have no idea why though.:shrug: |
05-22-2003, 03:00 PM | #50 | |
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