Calling all Snap 4000 Users...

[Sifter]

Ive been reading for awhile anonymously, and just created my account last night. I decided it was time to make it official. Lots of good info here. For those of you with Snap 4000 units, yes I know these units are not bleeding edge anymore, but for the average home user, that just wants a cheap 1TB NAS to store music, pictures, and other random program images, is it your opinion that these units do the job well?

Are you happy with your 4000, setting aside your exposure to enterprise units? For home use, on a 10/100 LAN with 2 or 3 computers, does it do the job well?

Ive seen the bandwidth tests, not achieving transfer of over 4.6 /sec, but for your average music stream, or backup of pics, is this really important?

Last question, what would you think the value of a 4000 unit would be that did not have upgraded hard drives? $40, $60, $100?

[Phoenix32]

You forgot to mention they don't drown out everything else in the room with noise like the Guardian units do.


What are they worth? Depends.

What kind of shape is it in?
What OS is on it?
What revision is it (3 and 4 are worth more than 1 and 2)?
Can you get an updated OS?
What size are the drives?
Can you get or make a MOD power supply for it (for larger drives)?
What is your intended usage?

The questions go on and on and there are lots of variables.

For the average home user, a SNAP 4000 is an awsome unit. If you need Gigabit Speed, forget it. If you need quiet, then back to awsome. If you need large drives, then you need an upgraded power supply. If you want to use XP Pro with no issues, then you need an OS update (same with large drives to some extent). If you want to use Vista with no issues, forget it.... Etc etc etc etc etc etc.

There is no 1 right answer for what one is worth or if it will be a good unit for someone. Each situation is different, with way too many variables to generalize much.

Overall, the 4000 is a great unit for what it is intended for and I still like them, contrary to popular belief, but know there are limits in several areas and that they will not meet all needs. I still have one myself (with a MOD power supply), along with 2 spare MOD power supplies and 1 OEM power supply. I still keep and have all my OS versions and utilities etc etc etc. I sure would not have that stuff if I didn't still think they were a good unit for some situations.

[Sifter]

Originally Posted by Phoenix32

You forgot to mention they don't drown out everything else in the room with noise like the Guardian units do.


What are they worth? Depends.

What kind of shape is it in?
What OS is on it?
What revision is it (3 and 4 are worth more than 1 and 2)?
Can you get an updated OS?
What size are the drives?
Can you get or make a MOD power supply for it (for larger drives)?
What is your intended usage?

The questions go on and on and there are lots of variables.

For the average home user, a SNAP 4000 is an awsome unit. If you need Gigabit Speed, forget it. If you need quiet, then back to awsome. If you need large drives, then you need an upgraded power supply. If you want to use XP Pro with no issues, then you need an OS update (same with large drives to some extent). If you want to use Vista with no issues, forget it.... Etc etc etc etc etc etc.

There is no 1 right answer for what one is worth or if it will be a good unit for someone. Each situation is different, with way too many variables to generalize much.

Overall, the 4000 is a great unit for what it is intended for and I still like them, contrary to popular belief, but know there are limits in several areas and that they will not meet all needs. I still have one myself (with a MOD power supply), along with 2 spare MOD power supplies and 1 OEM power supply. I still keep and have all my OS versions and utilities etc etc etc. I sure would not have that stuff if I didn't still think they were a good unit for some situations.

Below is the versioning:

Software: 3.4.7.90
Hardware: 2.0.1
BIOS: 3.0.282

[Phoenix32]

Okay, my bad, I think I am confused here.

It sounded to me like you were talking up the virtues of the 4000 and wanting others to see those values (look at the title of the thread). -AND- bringing out some questions and revitalizing some interest in them.

Now it sounds like you are wanting to buy a 4000 and asking for advice?

I'm confused...

[Sifter]

Originally Posted by Phoenix32

Okay, my bad, I think I am confused here.

It sounded to me like you were talking up the virtues of the 4000 and wanting others to see those values (look at the title of the thread). -AND- bringing out some questions and revitalizing some interest in them.

Now it sounds like you are wanting to buy a 4000 and asking for advice?

I'm confused...

You are correct, potential to buy. Would like opinions.

Its a -004 and has 4 30gig drives.

[Sifter]

Im thinking of getting 4 of these drives to drop into the unit.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148143

So I picked up a Snap 4000 for $115. My total investment for a 1TB Raid 5 NAS will be $395.

Is it recommended to get another Snap Server and use the server to server sync, or how are the rest of you backing up your NAS? I was thinking of trying to do something with mozy.com and sending it to an online storage.

[Phoenix32]

Correction...

WD drives are $10 cheaper (each), so that would be $375 - 40 + 75 = $410

[Sifter]

Originally Posted by Phoenix32

Correction...

WD drives are $10 cheaper (each), so that would be $375 - 40 + 75 = $410

Ok you have sold me on the WD drives, however, Im very leary about this:

Manufacturer Warranty
Parts 1 year limited
Labor 1 year limited

What has been everyones experience with the WD2500JB model drives and their failure ratio? As I look through the newegg reviews that people have left, alot of said the drives have either arrived defective, or failed within a small amount of time. Not sure if thats just bad luck or what.

[blue68f100]

OEM drive only carry a 1 yr warranty. Where Retail have 3-5 yr depending on mfg. If you were to use the WD SE drives design for servers you get 5yr warranty. Seagates have worked very well in the past but you need to run SpinRite on them to see what kind of trouble to expect. My WD have tested clean where Seagates had a bunch of bad sectors with 1 having a bad seek problem. The sectors were taken care of, but there is nothing you can do if a drive has a bad seek problem, except have it replaced. This at time can cause problems.

[Phoenix32]

This is true of most hard drives. They either arrive defective or if they are going to fail early, do so in the first 30 to 90 days. You get past that 60 to 90 day mark, and the drive will probably have a nice long life.

It has been my experience, Seagate drives have a higher failure rate than do WD drives. Maxtors are the very worst.

Also, there is an issue with the Seagate 250 GB drives in Cable Select mode and the SNAP 4000 (and C/S is what you want).

Yes, WD RE drives are better way to go, but also cost more (same as a Seagate drives if I recall). RE stands for RAID Edition btw. Designed for enteprise class use.

I would have to go look, but I am pretty sure even white box WD drives have a 3 year warranty. It is the TRUE OEM drives that only have 1 year. And I got news for you, the OEM Seagate drives have 0 year, 0 month, 0 day, 0 minute warranty.

[Sifter]

So from the version of this 4000, Software: 3.4.7.90, what updates do I need if I were to purchase support from Adaptec? Are there a couple software updates between that need to be loaded before 4.0.860? Dont want to brick my unit.

[blue68f100]

If you purchase support you get the latest version 4.0.860. You should have no problem jumping from v3.4. But with any upgrade have your data backed up. Once upgraded or before the ungrade check to see if all of the HD's have the same starting point. This can be different if HD's were replaced, can and will cause problem if you you have a hd failure. A very easy fix if they are not, but requires reformating all HD.

[blue68f100]

Phoenix,

SE, RE, actually it's SB (WD2500SB) for the Raid Edition, Was close. WD std retail drives are 3 yr. I don't know on OEM, they seam to change it on a regular basis. I don't buy them any more. Like you, have had problems with OEM, but in my case they lasted over 1 yr.

[Sifter]

Originally Posted by blue68f100

If you purchase support you get the latest version 4.0.860. You should have no problem jumping from v3.4. But with any upgrade have your data backed up. Once upgraded or before the ungrade check to see if all of the HD's have the same starting point. This can be different if HD's were replaced, can and will cause problem if you you have a hd failure. A very easy fix if they are not, but requires reformating all HD.

So does anyone know why there are 3 IDE connections on the MB of the 4000? Add another 2 drives with a nice modded power supply?

[blue68f100]

There are only 2, the third is a ISP port if you read the label.

[Sifter]

Originally Posted by blue68f100

There are only 2, the third is a ISP port if you read the label.

I can see that now, I didnt look very close. After searching, I now know what the ISP port is.

[Phoenix32]

Originally Posted by blue68f100

Phoenix,

SE, RE, actually it's SB (WD2500SB) for the Raid Edition, Was close. WD std retail drives are 3 yr. I don't know on OEM, they seam to change it on a regular basis. I don't buy them any more. Like you, have had problems with OEM, but in my case they lasted over 1 yr.

SE = Special Edition Family
RE = RAID Edition Family

SE = Mainstream 7200 RPM Drives with a MODEL NUMBER ending with JB for EIDE Drives. SE16 are the same thing as SE except with 16 MB Cache and ending with KB on the MODEL NUMBER for EIDE Drives.

RE = Enterprise 7200 RPM Drives, made specific for RAID use and other Enterprise type operations, with a MODEL NUMBER ending with SB for the EIDE Drives. There are RE2, but they only come in SATA.


There is a lot of confusion out there about what an OEM drive is. A TRUE OEM DRIVE (from any drive company) is a drive sold to an OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) like Dell, Gateway, HP, etc and in most cases carry no warranty at all except from the OEM itself. What you buy from newegg and the like that is marked on their web sites as OEM are not really OEM drives in most cases (but they can be, from OEM overstocks), and are just non retail boxed bare drives (no utilities, no cables, etc). These are sometimes referred to as "white box" units. Retail Boxed, and "white box" drives have a warranty 99% of the time. Depending on the drive manufacturer, they may be the same or very different on length.

I have found most "white box" WD drives are every bit as good as their Retail brothers. And in MOST (not all) cases, carry the same warranty as the retail units also. Seagate on the other hand is quite the opposite. Their "white box" units have a shorter warranty in MOST (but not all) cases. It is also much easier to run across Seagate TRUE OEM drives on online seller shelves for whatever reason, which have ZERO warranty.

In any case, I have found WD drives are more reliable than Seagate drives, but to each their own.

Tsk tsk tsk David. You should know better than to test me on hardware...

[Sifter]

Does anyone have an exact number of gig I will end up with 4-250gig drives in a raid-5 config on the 4000?

No hot spare, just 4 drives in a raid-5.

900ish gig?

[blue68f100]

Should be in the 730gig range. As a ball park number you total all drives - 1 for parity.

[blue68f100]

Tsk tsk tsk David. You should know better than to test me on hardware...

Andy, I have to keep you on your toes

Any way I'm running WD2500SB RE drives in my 4500, with the 400 gig Seagates with a bad seek time in my Snap10. I can tell a different is big file transfers. Using your Netstat the WD show less dips on large files.

[Phoenix32]

Same unit, Same drives, different mode...

250 GB drives = about 233 GB formatted on average.

RAID 5 = (APPROXIMATELY) all drives minus 1 for parity data

[Sifter]

Originally Posted by Phoenix32

Same unit, Same drives, different mode...

250 GB drives = about 233 GB formatted on average.

RAID 5 = (APPROXIMATELY) all drives minus 1 for parity data

Ok question, Ive been reading back when there was extensive testing going on with the 300 and 320 gig drives in the 4000's. I didnt see anyone test 3 320 gig drives in a raid 5 with the 4th 320 drive as a hot spare. Does this work since technically you are still under the 1.2TB limit?

[blue68f100]

Phoenix is better qualified to answer this than me.

You still have a weak power supply to deal with. And yes as long as you stay under the 1T limit and have a PS strong enough to handle startup and normal load. But you need to test your own unit to know for sure. This also means checking to weather you have a v3 or greater hardware. Version 1 & 2 have problems handling drive failures, particularly if drive 1 or 2 fails. The drives are configured differently, and only 1 is propoer for it to work.

Wait for Phoenix to respond if you need more detail, but he will need to know what hardware version you have.

But you can by 4 WD2500SE RE (250gig) drives for around $71 each yield a higher capacity. Remember that in raid 5 use 1 drive for parity, so 3 x 320 -320 = ~640gig give or take.

[Sifter]

Originally Posted by blue68f100

Phoenix is better qualified to answer this than me.

You still have a weak power supply to deal with. And yes as long as you stay under the 1T limit and have a PS strong enough to handle startup and normal load. But you need to test your own unit to know for sure. This also means checking to weather you have a v3 or greater hardware. Version 1 & 2 have problems handling drive failures, particularly if drive 1 or 2 fails. The drives are configured differently, and only 1 is propoer for it to work.

Wait for Phoenix to respond if you need more detail, but he will need to know what hardware version you have.

But you can by 4 WD2500SE RE (250gig) drives for around $71 each yield a higher capacity. Remember that in raid 5 use 1 drive for parity, so 3 x 320 -320 = ~640gig give or take.

Yes I still have yet to order my modded power supply.

[Phoenix32]

Originally Posted by Sifter

Ok question, Ive been reading back when there was extensive testing going on with the 300 and 320 gig drives in the 4000's. I didnt see anyone test 3 320 gig drives in a raid 5 with the 4th 320 drive as a hot spare. Does this work since technically you are still under the 1.2TB limit?

Okay answer, I do not know of any testing done with 3 x 320, but there was a test of 2 x 400 and 2 x 500 (in mirror), as well as a 3 x 300 (in RAID 5), and all worked fine. There is no reason I see why 3 x 320, and a 4th 320 set as a hot spare, should not work beyond the power issue. A hot spare would not be counted into the limit because it is not being used unless there is a failure. And BTW, it is a 1TB limit, not 1.2 TB, otherwise 4 x 300 would work.

Up side. You get to use four 320 GB drives, and have the extra security of a Hot Spare in case a drive fails.

Down side. You get to pay too much money for less storage than 4 x 250 drives.

In other words, why do it? If you go that route, you are getting a little less than 600 GB (formatted) for the price of four 320 GB drives. With 4 x 250 drives, you get a little over 700 GB (formatted) for the price of four 250 GB drives. You're going to get 100 GB less storage for somewhere around $75 more money and the only advantage is the hot spare, which if you need that much data security (RAID 5 and Hot Spares), then I would go for a better Guardian unit. See?

If you really want to go that type route, then go with 4 x 400 or 4 x 500 GB drives and put them in 2 Mirror arrarys. Just as safe, and a lot more storage for the money.

You could go 4 x 750 in the same manner, but I think the power and heat issue would rear it's ugly head again. While the MOD power supply I do has a molex connector for an extra fan, you would have to find a way to put that fan blowing on the 750 GB drives to keep them cool.

Bottom line, don't get greedy. Do the 4 x 250 GB for less money and be happy with the 700 GB you get in RAID 5 on a 4000.