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10-24-2002, 03:06 PM | #151 | |
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10-24-2002, 03:18 PM | #152 |
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relax,
give natural selection a chance |
10-24-2002, 03:30 PM | #153 |
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(Aaaargh! Lost my post!)
Thanks for the history tip, myv65. Thank you BillA, for the o-ring specs, that was very helpful!!! I found the Socket A specs . It is 52.4 mm wide, by 65.5 mm long. As far as I can tell, the clearance between the surface of the mobo, and the top of the socketed area, is 5.50 mm. It is longer than wider because of what is called the "cam box", which is where the lever mechanism sits. There is a prescribed notch to heat sinks (those that lay over the cam box) in the order of 2.0 mm. Prescribed clamping pressure, which should be in fact longitudinally applied (so the Paul Vodrazka mount is out of spec) over the core, is between 12 and 24 lbs f, typical 14 to 18, nominal at 16. I'll try to find a reference to the relative bolt hole position. |
10-24-2002, 04:17 PM | #154 | |
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The material selection that they have includes: Polyurethane, Neoprene, Buna-N, Viton, Teflon, Kalrez, Ethylene propylene (EPDM) and silicone. There's also a slightly different shaped o-ring, but still not within Shore A 30 to 50. Until I find a supplier, here's a cutsy anecdotal story: Finding a Shore A durometer |
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10-24-2002, 04:37 PM | #155 |
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yellow pages Ben, more o-ring suppliers in Houston than you could call in a week
you can have o-rings any way you spec 'em molded are better, but 'limit' you to stock sizes (which you can design for) molds are not expensive, but probably not warranted spliced joint in 'any' size, just do a bend/peel test on the joint why be fancy ? use Buna N ck the chem res charts - no biggie harder take higher pressure, you don't need that a fatter section gives you more slop in the tolerances -> 3/16" |
10-24-2002, 04:43 PM | #156 |
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According to http://www.oringswest.com/
Methanol will work with EPDM, Neoprene (Chloroprene), Fluorosilicone and silicone, but NOT nitrile (buna-N) nor Viton. Water will work with Viton and Neoprene, but only "fairly", which they mean as "Static usually OK". Otherwise will work with all above materials. Which leaves: EPDM Neoprene (Chloroprene) Fluorosilicone Silicone and Polyurethane Teflon Kalrez (tm) Now let's take out Polyurethane, for it's poor acid resistance. |
10-24-2002, 04:47 PM | #157 |
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EDPM
who is actually running methanol ? not talking, doing eh ? |
10-24-2002, 04:58 PM | #158 |
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OK, EDPM, Durometer rating Shore-A of 40,
3/16 diameter, ID: 1 3/8, OD: 1 3/4 (Dang, too small!) AS568A-324 3/16 diameter, ID: 1 1/2, OD: 1 7/8 AS568A-325 Waiting for quote... (Methanol: with water, Windshield Wiper fluid) |
10-24-2002, 06:39 PM | #159 |
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Les was kind enough to give me a more accurate overview of the thermal calculations. I'll give it another shot.
In the mean time, here's something to ponder: Copper 110? |
10-24-2002, 07:06 PM | #160 | |
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__________________
Signing out... Yo-DUH_87 If it works, fix it until it's broke! Then, after it's broke, add duct tape! Affordable webhosting! |
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10-24-2002, 07:53 PM | #161 | |
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Ponder that! Bob
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Sarcasm is yet another of the free services we offer! |
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10-25-2002, 03:41 AM | #162 |
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The pads around the core are soft foamy, rubber. they compress alot. I think they're to make sure the HS 'starts off' at a level rather than remaining so...
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10-25-2002, 08:00 AM | #163 | |
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Here is an excellent link for all copper alloys, their uses, properties, and forms. linky linky |
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10-25-2002, 10:00 AM | #164 |
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Ok, here's a recap:
We have a final fin pattern, a base material (C110), a socket mounting solution, a top design, a cube-res design (Utabintarbo is drafting it)... I just gave Utabintarbo the exterior dimensions of the block, which I think should be 52.4 mm by 52.4mm, which is as wide as the socket. This leaves out the socket tab mounts. Mounting this thing with springs, it seems that the mounting holes have changed from 0.230 inch to 0.150 inch. The spacing of the holes is clear, but I'm looking for the relative position to the socket. AMD specs no longer include mounting holes. clamping force is as specified earlier, so 1/4 max load per spring. Yo_duh87: Windshield wiper fluid is for phase 3. Note that methanol is hazardous, and shouldn't be used unless one knows exactly what precautions need to be taken. Utabintarbo, go for C110 (actually C11000). MadDogMe: I realize that they're soft. Re-reading AMD specs, the pads are 1.9 mm thick, and the core is somewhere around 0.8 to 0.88, so if the core is going to live, they have to squish down. AMD specs also call for a mount that applies a longitudinal load across the core, with no less than +/- 1.5 mm in deviation. I think we're OK, but I'll have to check. Gone_fishin: nice link! |
10-25-2002, 12:43 PM | #165 |
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Well, I kindly borrowed this graph from Cathar's block thread on OCAU. For some reason, the dimensions are in inches (?!?).
The weird thing is that the holes are actually off-center. (?!?) Spec calls for no more than 1.5 mm off center, and the holes are 1.25mm off. What where they thinking? Does anyone have the mounting hole specs? (I mean, do you have an old copy of the AMD PDF?) Does anyone have an opinion on a socket (tab type) mount? Last edited by bigben2k; 10-25-2002 at 12:59 PM. |
10-25-2002, 12:57 PM | #166 | |
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Discussing with Utabintarbo.
The 3/16 o-ring is too big. The bolts wouldn't fit. In order to use a 3/16 o-ring, we'd have to make the block longer and wider, which means stepping over the cam box, which means putting a 2mm clearance notch (wich happens to be the baseplate thickness). So back to plan A: a 1/16 o-ring. I still prefer EDPM, and I have to point out that buna-N won't work with meth, so it's out, at least for me (but I suppose that I could swap it later). Got the quote back: "$100". I'm thinking of going with the McMaster offering, with a durometer rating Shore-A of 70. What I don't get is this: Quote:
If the compression is 40 percent, and the o-ring volume is 60% of the groove, isn't the o-ring filling the channel? What's the gap supposed to be, if any? In the mean time, here's Utabintarbo's latest render (without the top). |
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10-25-2002, 02:42 PM | #167 | |
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Check it out |
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10-25-2002, 02:53 PM | #168 |
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Speaking of top...
The latest direction is towards copper, for structural integrity. Previously mentionned was polycarbonate, and acrylic. What hasn't been mentioned yet, is glass. (flameproof suit on! gone_fishin is going to like this!) Come to think of it Plexiglass hasn't been mentionned either. |
10-25-2002, 03:41 PM | #169 | |
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Just messin, do as you see fit. Kind of overkill on the assembly screws though dontcha think? |
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10-25-2002, 03:57 PM | #170 |
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Better safe than sorry, plus I like the 8 bolt design...
Did your bulletproof glass work OK? |
10-25-2002, 03:58 PM | #171 | |
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10-25-2002, 04:04 PM | #172 |
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kewl! Now, tell me again how you got those barbs in the glass?
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10-25-2002, 05:22 PM | #173 | |
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10-25-2002, 06:09 PM | #174 | |
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Hey Bigben you should reconsider the new cuts on the center fins, it seriously compromise structural stiffness of your block. If you keep connected the central crossing fins they make the base far more "unbendable", not needing an ultra stiff top. The 18 lbs. of vertical load you are aiming are simply a yoke to copper capability.
I sketched two cross sections of the fins of your block, yust wuess who is more able to bending? Quote:
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10-25-2002, 06:15 PM | #175 |
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Ahh wise advice from nicozeg. KISS is compromised for structural integrity. Who'd have thunk it
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