WARNING! Check your hoses!

[airspirit]

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=4686

In the above thread I described how my WC rig went down over the night and I stated that I didn't know how it happened. Well, I just figured it out.

After inspecting the entire system, I found that in the area of hose coming from my WB to my air trap, there used to be slight kinking due to a relatively tight turn. Because I was using such a powerful pump and such low quality (aquarium) hosing (1/2"), the suction from the pump slowly caused the walls of the hose to close in upon itself (this was not due to kinking ... the walls of the hose were completely collapsed upon themselves in a relatively straight area ... the slight kinking got the process started). The excess water was displaced into my air trap, and eventually the walls of the hose caved in. Since the pump could not suck, it couldn't push, either, and a couple of hours later I had a dead pump and quite nearly a dead CPU.

I would caution against using cheap and flimsy hosing in any water cooling project to prevent this kind of problem. I was lucky that I didn't fry my entire computer. Has anybody else encountered this kind of degradation in their hosing?

[clone]

same exact thing just noticed it a few days ago
but i dont want to bleed my sys it is a LARGE pain in the ass



http://24.218.60.52/pages/180gig%20array.html

http://24.218.60.52/pages/180gig%20array%202.html

is the hose with the issue
it is almost fully ****ed

[Can O' Beans]

I haven't seen this problem yet, but it's a good heads-up! Just another problem to be aware of when watercooling.

Whats the wall thickness on that hose? Might have to keep a watch for this if anyone else has the thin wall tubing.
Thick-walled tubing shouldn't have this problem at all.

Could probably fix temporarily by putting a few hoseclamps on the hose and tightening just enough to keep the hose circular. Then save up for better quality/thicker walled tubing.

[Skulemate]

I had this same issue when I was first testing my Little Giant. I bought cheapo vinyl tubing from Home Depot so I could work on the system before my Clearflex came in. When I hooked everything up and plugged it in it totally collapsed the intake tube to the point where there was almost no flow. When I bought some heavy braided tubing to fix this problem the results were 100% better.

In my current setup I'm using rigid 3/4" ABS pipe as a straight connection from my reservoir to my pump in order to avoid this issue altogether.

[g.l.amour]

damn, airspirit, glad you could keep the damage at a minimum.

what kind of pump did you have?

anyway, i have the inlet of the pump directly in my tupperware res , innovatek style. so i think i should be safe.

[MadDogMe]

Nobody ever got this problem with silicone tubing?. I been waiting on some £$% to get some, now you got me worried . I don't see peeple using silic#n# tubing much, I thought it was popular?...

[gmat]

Originally posted by Can O' Beans

Thick-walled tubing shouldn't have this problem at all.

Could probably fix temporarily by putting a few hoseclamps on the hose and tightening just enough to keep the hose circular. Then save up for better quality/thicker walled tubing.

Actually it happened to me as well. I had thick-wall (2mm) vinyl tubing. The tubing collapse on itself, so hose clamps are useless. Sharp turns are the cause, but a slight assymetric lateral force can flatten it as well:

F1->||
    ||
    )( <--- kink
    ||
    ||<-F2

Solutions ?
- use 'round turn' elbows
- re-route the tubing so it doesnt turn as much
- suppress lateral forces
- use Tygon

I opted for braided hose, a temporary solution until i get my Tygon.

[airspirit]

I'm replacing mine with braided tubing tonight. I'm also thinking of making some metal rings to place every 2" or so to prevent this from happening again. I had probably 3.5" of hose completely collapsed upon itself. I was using standard aquarium tubing ... probably 2-3mm thick. Another thing I'm probably going to do is construct the entire "shell" of the cooling system in nylon/PVC tubing, and just have small amounts of flex tubing at a couple of pivot points for installation purposes. I got lucky, and I don't want to tempt fate again.

I was using a NurseryPro NPU500 pump. It pumps obscene amounts of water at very high heads ... it is really overpowered for what I was using it for (I could have used it to run a bong as well ... something I was seriously considering). I just bought a Supreme 350GPH inline pump last night for $50, and I'm going to give it a shot today. It has 1/2" threaded connections for PVC/nylon hose barbs on both ends (I really like that), and should give me extremely good flow in my rig (again, this pump has extremely high head rates with high GPH ... ). I haven't tested it yet, so I don't know quiet it is, but I do know that Supreme makes the NurseryPro and that was perfectly silent. I'll let you all know how it goes (this pump is rated for 5 years continuous service).

[crane]

I have 2 of the Supreme Mag-Drive 350 gph pumps.....you won't be dissapointed. Just be careful with that plastic impeller cover as they are fragile and tend to crack out. Threading a male fitting into the female pump inlet caused a minor crack in one of mine,but was easily fixed with goop.

[MeltMan]

Ive had the sucking in problem as well. I switched to 3/8ths thinwall vinyl for a cleaner look... bad news. So its back to the thickwall and trying to shove it over 1/2 barbs. What a pain in the butt. Im still too much of a cheapass for tygon...

Anyone have sucking in issues with it?

[bigben2k]

I don't have Tygon, but I'm going the "cheap-ass" route, like you .

I got a hold of cheap vinyl (1/2 ID, thin walled) for some preliminary tests, and noticed that the tubing was collapsing already. I know I have a good pump, but when the tube just sits in a bucket and collapses right there in front of me, it's a good indication (from this thread also) to me that thin walled won't cut it with my Little Giant 2-MDQ-SC.

I may very well go with braided vinyl, but you're right, it's not flexible!!! I'll have to try to warm it up, to see if it helps to slip it over my 1/2 CPVC barbs (5/8 OD).

[jtroutma]

I am trying a different approach to "preventing" tubing collapes. I am going to setup my new pump with a 3/8" pressure side (pump -> water block -> radiator -> res.) and a 1/2" return line ( res. -> pump).

My reasoning behind this is two fold;

1) The pumps are made with a larger intake line and a smaller exhaust line by nature. Might as well stick with the pattern.

2) I believe that most of this tubing collapsing is due in part by having a completely closed loop system (no place for the water to truely "sit" for any length of time and the pump is trying to both SUCK and PUSH the water through the loop at the same time.

I want my pump to push NOT suck; where doing so will create a low pressure spot just before the water enteres the pump.

I designed my setup so the water was always being moved from the lowest point (pump) to the highest point (res.) and then gravity would feed the water back to the pump. Increasing the return line size helps to make sure that gravity will be able to feed my new pump enough water to keep it from trying to "suck" water in.

That is my theory and personally it cant hurt one bit to do it this way. So far I have yet to see ANY stress or tube collapses in any part of my setup and plan on keeping it that way

[Can O' Beans]

The larger intake might be a good idea. Would like to see the results

[bigben2k]

I've heard people argue that a larger intake is better, but I have yet to see any proof of this. The argument involves having a lower pressure at the inlet, which is favorable to the pump.

Maybe myv65 has some input on this?

Jtroutma, your logic is interesting! Maybe you could expand a bit on it? I completely agree with #1. Myv65 ran some pressure measurements, and observed a negative pressure point, at the pump inlet. To clarify, the pressure, relative to atmospheric pressure is higher in the tube at the pump outlet, but slightly lower at the inlet. This would most definitely be a factor in this tubing collapse.

[Triton]

Another argument for purchasing more expensive but quality components up front. Props to all the ghetto masters out there but you will pay the price more often. Well at least that's what it sounds like over the last year that I've been reading these forums.

[chazz469]

So it seems as if most people who have had this problem have tube on both ends of the pump? I have some cheapy vinyl tubing and actually a rather bad bend, but haven't had this problem yet. I'll be sure to keep an eye on it, but my pump sits in the res, so no tube on the intake side.

[airspirit]

In my setup I had a snorkel style airtrap inbetween the pump and the collapsed section of tube. The vinyl is too soft, methinks, if you use a strong pump. I would suspect that any stretch of vinyl tubing after the midpoint of your coolant loop, resistance-wise, can be affected by this.

Ghetto masters *snicker* ... you should see it now. I installed what I am calling "the Football" on the back of my computer. It is a 1.5 ft length of 4" black PVC with a screw cap (complete with square bolt) on top and a T on the bottom that adapts my 1/2" braided hose to a 1" connector that attaches to the 4" PVC. I can stick the best part of a gallon of cooling in this bastard. To fill my system I just dumped fluid in, turned on the pump, and waited overnight for all the bubbles to work out. To prevent torque damage to my processor from tension from the braided hose, I have 2" sections of the vinyl (grr) going from the braided to the block. It is now completely ghetto ... and so is my living room since I dumped most of a can of PVC glue (neon blue) on my f*cking carpet. Nothing known to man can ever get that crap up.

[gmat]

Oooh beware PVC glue fumes are quite toxic.

My pump has the power of a 1250 (1200 l/h) and i had repeated vinyl tubing collapses, even in slight turns. Now i hope braided hose will hold
Cannot wait for my Tygon... (still waiting for D-Tek shipping confirmation)

[jtroutma]

Gmat: If you haven't already placed your order for Tygon at Dtek then go over to BECooling..... I checked and BECooling as the Tygon IN STOCK and is cheaper than Dtek. I ordered a batch from them on Thursday and it was shipped Friday.

Nothing against Dtek ( almost my whole rig will composed of Dtek equipment ) however I just get frustrated when most things are "out of stock" so often. He does have a life outside his buisness though

BigBen: I will post results as soon as I get a chance to make the customizations to my exsisting setup. It may be a week or two though

[gmat]

jroutma: nah, the order was placed last friday. And since UPS takes about $85 for shipping a small parcel, i ordered everything from the same place - i am getting a pro/combo as well. (yeah, there goes my old crappy modded dual senfu)

[hmale]

I am a firm believer in prevention. Sometimes spending a little more on the front end will help minimize problems down the road.

One of the features that helped me choose the pump I am using is that it has a "dry run cutout" and a thermal switch. If flow is interrupted for a period of time or the pump temperature exceeds 140 degrees F, it shuts off. The thermal safety features of the mobo will cause system shutdown immediately after that.

Remember the 7 P's:
Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance

Cheers!

[Crazymofo]

Just wanted to chime in and say thanks to everyone for convincing me on tygon tubing!!