My Maze4 Review - Page 4

Skeptic · 07-15-2003, 12:11 AM

Yea, I guess. Just seemed odd with all the trouble surrounding this.

Paid for 2nd day air, and they shipped ground.
Ordered Maze 4 AMD, and received a Maze 3 Pentium.
Told them of their mistake about the Maze 3 and asked to shipped the Maze 4 AMD, and they shipped Pentium.

I am beginning to wonder if they even make blocks for AMD at this point. Maybe they will send me a Maze 2 Pentium this time?

Who knows.

pakman · 07-15-2003, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic
I am beginning to wonder if they even make blocks for AMD at this point. Maybe they will send me a Maze 2 Pentium this time?
Who knows.

Hey hold on to that maze2, that's a collector's item...

jaydee · 07-15-2003, 12:32 AM

My Lemon block is up and running. So far it is kicking everythings ass and it is aluminum to boot. Knew I should have continued with that block... Will have temps against the Maze 4 tomorrow. So far it is 4C cooler but the water temps is a C cooler to. Will let things settle in over night running D.F..

pakman · 07-15-2003, 12:55 AM

now that is interesting... I would be surprised an alu block would perform so well. what else is in your loops? 500gph pump, 1/2"ID tubing and what is the rad? I presume you are monitoring your ambient temps closely during these tests?

Zhentar · 07-15-2003, 01:27 AM

Thats pretty surprising that your aluminum block performs so well. Just goes to show the waterblock theories don't beat real live testing.....

not to say anything against you, but finally running a CPU at 2ghz seems silly to me

I've got two CPUs here (originally t-bred b 2100+) at stock voltage, 2100 mhz, and my cooling probably cost less than your waterblock ($18- Thermalright AX-7, $2- NMB 18 CFM fan). Of course no doubt your temps completely own mine

43 C in a well air conditioned basement....

Yo-DUH_87 · 07-15-2003, 01:55 AM

Not a bad looking block, but mine is missing a screw. Sent off an email to bruce, though, and he said he'll send me a screw for it. Had a reply in under 3 min

That's what I call service

It is a little inconvenient, though. Not that I have any WC gear to test it with anyway, I need to get that ordered sometime soon

One thing I definately don't like about the block is the mounting method provided, seems prety weak to me, but I'll have to attempt mounting it before passing the final judgement. We'll see.

jaydee · 07-15-2003, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zhentar
Thats pretty surprising that your aluminum block performs so well. Just goes to show the waterblock theories don't beat real live testing.....

not to say anything against you, but finally running a CPU at 2ghz seems silly to me I've got two CPUs here (originally t-bred b 2100+) at stock voltage, 2100 mhz, and my cooling probably cost less than your waterblock ($18- Thermalright AX-7, $2- NMB 18 CFM fan). Of course no doubt your temps completely own mine 43 C in a well air conditioned basement....

The Lemon Block was my best work. It is designed to handle a lot of heat as I originally made it for my TBird 1400. These were some toasty CPU's. The base the pins sit in is 3/16" thick to allow a lot of heat to spread out to the pins and then get absorbed by the water. Flow rate is excellent through this block. It is a very high flow block which with the design just makes it work. Also I got a Tbred A core 1700+ that doesn't OC near aswell asthe B cores (although over a 500mhz overclock isn't to shabby!) . It is the only CPU I ever had capable of 2gig and I just got the Abit KD7 a few weeks ago which is the first board I ever had that could take a CPU to 2gig. Thats why it was my first shot at 2gig. Everyone has a first time.

Quote:

originally posted by pakman
now that is interesting... I would be surprised an alu block would perform so well. what else is in your loops? 500gph pump, 1/2"ID tubing and what is the rad? I presume you are monitoring your ambient temps closely during these tests?

Air temps are taken with another thermocoupler. I have two of them. Water temps are taken with a thermister. All have been calibrated with each other. Note these are "relative" temps.

pakman · 07-15-2003, 10:12 AM

jaydee, did you ever think of doing a copper version of the lemon?

jaydee · 07-15-2003, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pakman
jaydee, did you ever think of doing a copper version of the lemon?

Yes, it is in the works.

redleader · 07-15-2003, 01:36 PM

DD screws up orders sometimes. But they fix them well. I have a free GPU block as a testiment

Skeptic · 07-15-2003, 09:51 PM

Ok here are my results testing the Maze 4 vs the Maze 3.

System Info:

Asus A7N8X Deluxe 2.0 using latest 1005 bios update
2 x 512 Kingston DDR 3200 RAM
Gainward GeForceFX 5900 Ultra 256 mb card
Sound Blaster Audigy 2
Hydor L30 pump
Black Ice Extreme Radiator
1/2" Tygon tubing
Distilled Water/HyperLube mix about 40 to 1 ratio.
Room temp varied a little here between 23C and 25C.

Anything else I need to put in here? This is my 1st time doing this so still new to the ropes.

Rebuilt the system 3 times for clarity for each block and here are the results so far. Temperature is recorded using a thermacoupler, but not quite sure if it is correct or not. Will also post the Asus Probe temps as well so you can see the differences.

Maze 3

1- Idle = 27C, Load using CPU Burn for 1 hour = 35C
2- Idle = 27C, Load using CPU Burn for 1 hour = 34C
3- Idle = 26C, Load using CPU Burn for 1 hour = 34C

Asus temp readings on the above were between 33 and 37...no idea why though....don't even know if it is relevant either.

Maze 4 (Load same as above, tired of typing it)

1- Idle = 29C, Load = 39C
2- Idle = 27C, Load = 38C
3- Idle = 27C, Load = 39C

Asus temps were between 40-44 on loads.

There are still bubbles in the system on all 6 tests because I need to make a resovoir with some sort of bleed tube I think. Still thinking on this one....I am hoping that this will improve the flow and lower temps a little.

Did I do things right?

pHaestus · 07-15-2003, 10:04 PM

There's not much you can do other than call and complain. If you really are dissatisfied then ask for a refund and buy something else from somewhere else.

This is a reasonable time to plug Cooltechnica. Bruce is a real retailer and not a mfgr that looks at the shipping and sales as an extra hassle. I would suggest buying swiftech, dangerden, dtek, and such from Bruce instead in the future. He has great service and is always available to deal with issues should they arise.

jaydee · 07-15-2003, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic

Did I do things right?

Try remounting a few times, but looks ok for what you have. I just hooked up Jet Block Version 1 about an hour ago. So far it is 2C better than the Maze 4.

XP1700+@1800mhz
1.75Vcore

Air: 26C
Water: 30C
TC: 41C
Onboard: 39C

Also the Lemon Block ended up being 1C better.

Skeptic · 07-15-2003, 10:41 PM

I am now seriously confused here.

All I did was add one 120mm rad fan, two 80mm window fans, an L30 pump (on it's own power)...and then the waterblocks.

The temps are under what they were with aircooling BUT now my system benchmark performance is worse?

3dmark2003, and 2001 are both considerably worse now. No driver changes, nothing but added the above.

Any ideas why?

jaydee · 07-15-2003, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic
I am now seriously confused here.

All I did was add one 120mm rad fan, two 80mm window fans, an L30 pump (on it's own power)...and then the waterblocks.

The temps are under what they were with aircooling BUT now my system benchmark performance is worse?

3dmark2003, and 2001 are both considerably worse now. No driver changes, nothing but added the above.

Any ideas why?

That would probably be a Winblows issue. Happens to me regularly. Reinstall the vid drivers and try again.

MadDogMe · 07-16-2003, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Maze 4 (Load same as above, tired of typing it)

Copy and paste it then

Copy and paste it then

Copy and paste it then

Copy and paste it then

Copy and paste it then

Copy and paste it then

Copy and paste it then

Dito!...

Skeptic · 07-16-2003, 08:59 AM

Whats the point? People understood what I was trying to say....if you didn't.....well....

jaydee · 07-16-2003, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MadDogMe
Copy and paste it then

Copy and paste it then

Copy and paste it then

Copy and paste it then

Copy and paste it then

Copy and paste it then

Copy and paste it then

Dito!...

LOL!

Don't take it personally Skeptic. MadDog is the last one on this forum that would be trying to flame you.

pHaestus · 07-16-2003, 11:05 AM

Did you clear CMOS at some point? Probably ram timings are the issue if 3dmark is performing worse. FSB and ram timings make a huge difference in the score that benchmark reports.

winewood · 07-16-2003, 06:31 PM

I bet that cpu isnt reading what it should in the bios.

It did that to me as well a couple of times. I must have hit the battery on my cmos

pakman · 07-16-2003, 06:36 PM

so far some interesting results coming out on the maze4 (edit: in this thread). I know these are far from definitive reviews/tests, but the preliminary results on the maze4 appear disappointing (edit: relative to the maze3). Still waiting for someone to do a formal review of this block with a proper test bench [hint]...

quote from the dangerden webpage"

"block does offer improvements over the MAZE3 - Less water flow restriction, improved peltier clamping, lighter block design, better cooling, improved look, and more"

bigben2k · 07-16-2003, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pakman
"block does offer improvements over the MAZE3 - Less water flow restriction, improved peltier clamping, lighter block design, better cooling, improved look, and more"

...and that's entirely accurate. It just didn't state that the performance would be an improvement.

For someone just getting into watercooling, or for someone wanting to get into pelts, this block is still the top choice.

winewood · 07-16-2003, 09:00 PM

I dunno.. making a new revision and saying it gives you better cooling. That kinda states better perfomance imho. I think your being way to easy on em bigben2k.

And if this is the top choice.. why not just get a m3?

Razor6 · 07-16-2003, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
...and that's entirely accurate. It just didn't state that the performance would be an improvement.

I dunno, I thought the part about "better cooling" over the Maze3 meant that it would cool better.

Skeptic · 07-16-2003, 09:21 PM

It doesn't cool better with my tests, but I am far from an expert. I personally like the Maze 3 temps better and I love my 2600+ at 2.5 ghz. 8)

07-15-2003, 01:55 AM	#81
Yo-DUH_87 Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 230	Not a bad looking block, but mine is missing a screw. Sent off an email to bruce, though, and he said he'll send me a screw for it. Had a reply in under 3 min That's what I call service It is a little inconvenient, though. Not that I have any WC gear to test it with anyway, I need to get that ordered sometime soon One thing I definately don't like about the block is the mounting method provided, seems prety weak to me, but I'll have to attempt mounting it before passing the final judgement. We'll see. __________________ Signing out... Yo-DUH_87 If it works, fix it until it's broke! Then, after it's broke, add duct tape! Affordable webhosting!

07-16-2003, 06:31 PM	#95
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	I bet that cpu isnt reading what it should in the bios. It did that to me as well a couple of times. I must have hit the battery on my cmos __________________ -winewood-

07-16-2003, 09:00 PM	#98
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	I dunno.. making a new revision and saying it gives you better cooling. That kinda states better perfomance imho. I think your being way to easy on em bigben2k. And if this is the top choice.. why not just get a m3? __________________ -winewood-

07-15-2003, 12:11 AM	#76
Skeptic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 48	Yea, I guess. Just seemed odd with all the trouble surrounding this. Paid for 2nd day air, and they shipped ground. Ordered Maze 4 AMD, and received a Maze 3 Pentium. Told them of their mistake about the Maze 3 and asked to shipped the Maze 4 AMD, and they shipped Pentium. I am beginning to wonder if they even make blocks for AMD at this point. Maybe they will send me a Maze 2 Pentium this time? Who knows.

07-15-2003, 12:32 AM	#78
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	My Lemon block is up and running. So far it is kicking everythings ass and it is aluminum to boot. Knew I should have continued with that block... Will have temps against the Maze 4 tomorrow. So far it is 4C cooler but the water temps is a C cooler to. Will let things settle in over night running D.F..

07-15-2003, 12:55 AM	#79
pakman Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA State Posts: 76	now that is interesting... I would be surprised an alu block would perform so well. what else is in your loops? 500gph pump, 1/2"ID tubing and what is the rad? I presume you are monitoring your ambient temps closely during these tests?

07-15-2003, 01:27 AM	#80
Zhentar Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 225	Thats pretty surprising that your aluminum block performs so well. Just goes to show the waterblock theories don't beat real live testing..... not to say anything against you, but finally running a CPU at 2ghz seems silly to me I've got two CPUs here (originally t-bred b 2100+) at stock voltage, 2100 mhz, and my cooling probably cost less than your waterblock ($18- Thermalright AX-7, $2- NMB 18 CFM fan). Of course no doubt your temps completely own mine 43 C in a well air conditioned basement....

07-15-2003, 10:12 AM	#83
pakman Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA State Posts: 76	jaydee, did you ever think of doing a copper version of the lemon?

07-15-2003, 01:36 PM	#85
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	DD screws up orders sometimes. But they fix them well. I have a free GPU block as a testiment

07-15-2003, 09:51 PM	#86
Skeptic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 48	Ok here are my results testing the Maze 4 vs the Maze 3. System Info: Asus A7N8X Deluxe 2.0 using latest 1005 bios update 2 x 512 Kingston DDR 3200 RAM Gainward GeForceFX 5900 Ultra 256 mb card Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Hydor L30 pump Black Ice Extreme Radiator 1/2" Tygon tubing Distilled Water/HyperLube mix about 40 to 1 ratio. Room temp varied a little here between 23C and 25C. Anything else I need to put in here? This is my 1st time doing this so still new to the ropes. Rebuilt the system 3 times for clarity for each block and here are the results so far. Temperature is recorded using a thermacoupler, but not quite sure if it is correct or not. Will also post the Asus Probe temps as well so you can see the differences. Maze 3 1- Idle = 27C, Load using CPU Burn for 1 hour = 35C 2- Idle = 27C, Load using CPU Burn for 1 hour = 34C 3- Idle = 26C, Load using CPU Burn for 1 hour = 34C Asus temp readings on the above were between 33 and 37...no idea why though....don't even know if it is relevant either. Maze 4 (Load same as above, tired of typing it) 1- Idle = 29C, Load = 39C 2- Idle = 27C, Load = 38C 3- Idle = 27C, Load = 39C Asus temps were between 40-44 on loads. There are still bubbles in the system on all 6 tests because I need to make a resovoir with some sort of bleed tube I think. Still thinking on this one....I am hoping that this will improve the flow and lower temps a little. Did I do things right?

07-15-2003, 10:04 PM	#87
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	There's not much you can do other than call and complain. If you really are dissatisfied then ask for a refund and buy something else from somewhere else. This is a reasonable time to plug Cooltechnica. Bruce is a real retailer and not a mfgr that looks at the shipping and sales as an extra hassle. I would suggest buying swiftech, dangerden, dtek, and such from Bruce instead in the future. He has great service and is always available to deal with issues should they arise.

07-15-2003, 10:41 PM	#89
Skeptic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 48	I am now seriously confused here. All I did was add one 120mm rad fan, two 80mm window fans, an L30 pump (on it's own power)...and then the waterblocks. The temps are under what they were with aircooling BUT now my system benchmark performance is worse? 3dmark2003, and 2001 are both considerably worse now. No driver changes, nothing but added the above. Any ideas why?

07-16-2003, 08:59 AM	#92
Skeptic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 48	Whats the point? People understood what I was trying to say....if you didn't.....well....

07-16-2003, 11:05 AM	#94
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Did you clear CMOS at some point? Probably ram timings are the issue if 3dmark is performing worse. FSB and ram timings make a huge difference in the score that benchmark reports.

07-16-2003, 06:36 PM	#96
pakman Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA State Posts: 76	so far some interesting results coming out on the maze4 (edit: in this thread). I know these are far from definitive reviews/tests, but the preliminary results on the maze4 appear disappointing (edit: relative to the maze3). Still waiting for someone to do a formal review of this block with a proper test bench [hint]... quote from the dangerden webpage" "block does offer improvements over the MAZE3 - Less water flow restriction, improved peltier clamping, lighter block design, better cooling, improved look, and more"

07-16-2003, 09:21 PM	#100
Skeptic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 48	It doesn't cool better with my tests, but I am far from an expert. I personally like the Maze 3 temps better and I love my 2600+ at 2.5 ghz. 8)

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