eheim 1048 or 1250 w/ dtek spir@l?

garie · 10-09-2002, 12:55 AM

Hi, I'm planning to get the spiral or tc-4(when they come back in stock) from dtek and im planning to fit the dtek radiator with shroud in the bottom front of my lian li pc65. I'm gonna have to dremel some of the lower HD rack to fit the radiator setup, but I dont want to put the radiator on the top of the case.

My question is I think the eheim 1250 is too big for my case(the way i want the pump to be placed and setup) and I think the 1048 would be the better choice cuz its smaller. But would the performance difference be that drastic?since the 1250 has dbl the flow of the 1048? thanks for any help.

Also, which block is better the tc-4 or the spir@l? I was going to get the TC-4....but its still not in stock and I wanna get my setup done soon. Thanks!

bigben2k · 10-09-2002, 08:58 AM

Check out the "pump roundup" thread, for pump info.

Check out the "Swapped an Eheim 1048 for a Eheim 1250, Interesting results!" thread for info on the TC-4.

Cathar · 10-09-2002, 09:18 AM

Just completed a round up of 7 waterblocks of various designs (maze, open pool, channelled, multi-channeled, maze 3).

In order to guage the best indication of the performance difference than a 1250 and a 1048 make, I had both pumps in the reservoir. The system would be bled and primed with the 1048. While keeping the pump outlet hose under the water at all times, I'd pull it off and move it over to the 1250 and plug it in.

This way there is no issues with rebleeding the system, remounting the CPU, moving any components about, changing air-flow, etc. The only thing that changes is the pump.

The net effect of moving from a 1048 to a 1250 is around an estimated 0.2C drop in temperatures for an over-volted over-clocked CPU. Most of the blocks had indetectable differences between the two pumps (performed exactly the same across 3 different CPU power levels), while a very few saw a 0.5C drop. Given that the CPU diode resolution is 0.5C, this doesn't say much. It just means that the block that saw the drop was on the edge of the 0.5C switchover with the 1048 when the 1250's small extra performance caused the drop.

If we average out all the readings, I stand by the 0.2C difference in performance between the two pumps as stated above.

If people are seeing larger differences, then I believe that they altered something else without realising it.

I measured the flow rate differences. In all cases through a complete system (waterblock + radiator), the Eheim 1048 saw 69-73% of the flow rate through the system that the Eheim 1250 was getting.

The Eheim 1048 in my mind is a perfectly acceptable pump for any in-case in-line solution that doesn't have excessive restrictions.

MadDogMe · 10-09-2002, 09:24 AM

Be interseting to know exactly what the actual flowrate through the system was with the 1048, then again with the 1250...

bigben2k · 10-09-2002, 09:30 AM

Your results would be affected by the restriction, as the 1250 and 1048 have a similar curve. The 1250 is good for more flow, but only has 1 1/2 (1.5) foot more head.

The flow rate is needed!

MadDogMe · 10-09-2002, 09:45 AM

That's what I mean (I think!), be interesting to see if the 1250 gave much more than the 1048, to see how small or large the difference in flow was.
on a less restrictive system it could of yeilded better temps yes?. even so, it's quite illusion shattering

...

nikhsub1 · 10-09-2002, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by garie
Hi, I'm planning to get the spiral or tc-4(when they come back in stock) from dtek and im planning to fit the dtek radiator with shroud in the bottom front of my lian li pc65. I'm gonna have to dremel some of the lower HD rack to fit the radiator setup, but I dont want to put the radiator on the top of the case.

My question is I think the eheim 1250 is too big for my case(the way i want the pump to be placed and setup) and I think the 1048 would be the better choice cuz its smaller. But would the performance difference be that drastic?since the 1250 has dbl the flow of the 1048? thanks for any help.

Also, which block is better the tc-4 or the spir@l? I was going to get the TC-4....but its still not in stock and I wanna get my setup done soon. Thanks!

Seems I have ALL blocks/pumps you are considering. I will give you MY experience, take it with a grain of salt as my results may be atypical and are certainly UNSCIENTIFIC and uncontrolled. The D-Tek Spir@l performed better for me with the 1048 than the 1250. The TC-4 performed well with the stock turbulators and the 1048, it seemed to suffer with the 1250. When I removed the turbulators and ran open channels, the 1250 did much better than with the turbulators. Maybe fractionally better than the 1048 with the stock turbulators but certainly nothing to write home about. I also use the D-Tek core with 2 shrouds, 2 120mm 86CFM Sunon fans. If I were you, based on my experience with these blocks/pumps, I would get the TC-4 and the 1048 and leave it at that. I have found that the TC-4 significantly outperforms the Spir@l with either pump. Hope this helps in your decision.

HelpImNewbish · 10-09-2002, 02:14 PM

I probably shouldn't be teh one to say, because im newbish, but if you want to upgrade your system to cool other things later, like a gfx card, 2nd cpu, NB, etc. i'd think the 1250 would be a better idea. And if you are going to be just cpu for a while, a higher flow block might be better. I thought the spiral was, but what about a low flow block with a higher pump to push water through faster? I dont really know. It'd be nice to have a thread that lays out some block type/flow relationships for newbies. Most other people on here have already discussed it, and now take the info a little for granted.

My poor, crappy opinion, would be to get a swiftech MCW-462-UH and a 1250 if you plan to get a graphics card cooler eventually like me, or a 1048 if not, because supposedly it performs good at low flow rates? I like the mounting system on it too. Installing the standoffs once, then not having to remove the mobo any more is nice. I chose it almost for that alone, since the innovatek is like 75 bucks.

garie · 10-09-2002, 04:35 PM

thanks alot for ur input guys.....hmmm i just ordered my setup last nite....with the aluminum topped spiral, dtel radiator, and 1048. I was gonna get the tc-4 but its still outta stock and i dont want to wait anymore. I'll get pics up when its done. Thanks alot!

MadDogMe · 10-10-2002, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Installing the standoffs once, then not having to remove the mobo any more is nice. I chose it almost for that alone, since the innovatek is like 75 bucks.

I just dremeled four square holes in the mobo tray to make removal from the mobotray back easy

.having a removable tray would be the best though

.

Some people have had trouble with the bolts sticking/locking into the standoffs(cause they are different metals), when it happens it tends to rip the neoprene gasket of the UH blocks!, put some copper grease in/on the standoffs and bolts to stop them freezing together, cover the length of bolt that touches the inside of the neoprene with Cu grease to, to stop it snatching/gripping and ripping (W00T I'm rapping

) the gasket. Swiftech are apparently addressing this problem soon by making the standoffs and bolts out of the same metal/material. don't know how soon or if it's gonna happen though.

Cathar · 10-10-2002, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MadDogMe
Be interseting to know exactly what the actual flowrate through the system was with the 1048, then again with the 1250...

For an Maze 3, 5.7lpm with the 1048, then 8.0lpm with the 1250.

For the Cyclone 5 range of blocks, 5.7 and 8.0lpm also.

For the Cyclone 3, 6.0 and 8.6lpm

For the Concept Block and the Cyclone 4, 5.0 and 6.8lpm

MadDogMe · 10-10-2002, 05:20 AM

More of a flow increase than I thought there would be,(by going by the small change in temps).
Yours is the concept block?, did yours have a bigger difference than the Maze3?(temp difference). but then again pressure would affect yours more than flow would'nt it?.does that 1.5foot extra head equate to much pressure?, or is it negligable?...

Very interesting results, shattered one of my beliefs(the mighty 1250!). wonder what kind of differences would be seen with multi block systems?, GPU, NB,& HD maybe.

Cathar · 10-10-2002, 05:47 AM

All block exhibited roughly the same temperature decrease going from the 1048 to the 1250, at least that is to say that the temperature decrease was so small that it didn't register for many instances given the 0.5C resolution of the CPU thermal diode.

Pressure? Flow? They are linked. Each block provides a particular back-pressure against a pump, and the flow rate is proportional to that back-pressure.

It may be interesting to note that the Concept (my micro-channel block) gives just 24mm^2 of orifice area for the water to squeeze through at its tightest point, and the Cyclone 4 gives 124mm^2 of channel area at its tightest point, yet both give the same flow rates (ie. have the same back-pressure). The Cyclone 4 causes the water to take 16 right angled turns while the concept has the water taking just 2. Meaning you can get away with outrageous restrictions to boost water velocity (ie. less than a 1/4" ID tube) so long as you don't make it take too many turns aferwards.

MadDogMe · 10-10-2002, 08:10 AM

Is there a formula for working out the area of a circle?, can you let me know what it is?. it'd help me sort out some ideas in my mind.

utabintarbo · 10-10-2002, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MadDogMe
Is there a formula for working out the area of a circle?, can you let me know what it is?. it'd help me sort out some ideas in my mind.

area = pi X (radius squared)

10-09-2002, 12:55 AM	#1
garie Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: usa Posts: 17	eheim 1048 or 1250 w/ dtek spir@l? Hi, I'm planning to get the spiral or tc-4(when they come back in stock) from dtek and im planning to fit the dtek radiator with shroud in the bottom front of my lian li pc65. I'm gonna have to dremel some of the lower HD rack to fit the radiator setup, but I dont want to put the radiator on the top of the case. My question is I think the eheim 1250 is too big for my case(the way i want the pump to be placed and setup) and I think the 1048 would be the better choice cuz its smaller. But would the performance difference be that drastic?since the 1250 has dbl the flow of the 1048? thanks for any help. Also, which block is better the tc-4 or the spir@l? I was going to get the TC-4....but its still not in stock and I wanna get my setup done soon. Thanks! Last edited by garie; 10-09-2002 at 01:23 AM.

10-09-2002, 08:58 AM	#2
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Check out the "pump roundup" thread, for pump info. Check out the "Swapped an Eheim 1048 for a Eheim 1250, Interesting results!" thread for info on the TC-4. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-09-2002, 09:18 AM	#3
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	Just completed a round up of 7 waterblocks of various designs (maze, open pool, channelled, multi-channeled, maze 3). In order to guage the best indication of the performance difference than a 1250 and a 1048 make, I had both pumps in the reservoir. The system would be bled and primed with the 1048. While keeping the pump outlet hose under the water at all times, I'd pull it off and move it over to the 1250 and plug it in. This way there is no issues with rebleeding the system, remounting the CPU, moving any components about, changing air-flow, etc. The only thing that changes is the pump. The net effect of moving from a 1048 to a 1250 is around an estimated 0.2C drop in temperatures for an over-volted over-clocked CPU. Most of the blocks had indetectable differences between the two pumps (performed exactly the same across 3 different CPU power levels), while a very few saw a 0.5C drop. Given that the CPU diode resolution is 0.5C, this doesn't say much. It just means that the block that saw the drop was on the edge of the 0.5C switchover with the 1048 when the 1250's small extra performance caused the drop. If we average out all the readings, I stand by the 0.2C difference in performance between the two pumps as stated above. If people are seeing larger differences, then I believe that they altered something else without realising it. I measured the flow rate differences. In all cases through a complete system (waterblock + radiator), the Eheim 1048 saw 69-73% of the flow rate through the system that the Eheim 1250 was getting. The Eheim 1048 in my mind is a perfectly acceptable pump for any in-case in-line solution that doesn't have excessive restrictions. Last edited by Cathar; 10-09-2002 at 09:23 AM.

10-09-2002, 09:30 AM	#5
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Your results would be affected by the restriction, as the 1250 and 1048 have a similar curve. The 1250 is good for more flow, but only has 1 1/2 (1.5) foot more head. The flow rate is needed! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-09-2002, 02:14 PM	#8
HelpImNewbish Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Hickville Posts: 41	I probably shouldn't be teh one to say, because im newbish, but if you want to upgrade your system to cool other things later, like a gfx card, 2nd cpu, NB, etc. i'd think the 1250 would be a better idea. And if you are going to be just cpu for a while, a higher flow block might be better. I thought the spiral was, but what about a low flow block with a higher pump to push water through faster? I dont really know. It'd be nice to have a thread that lays out some block type/flow relationships for newbies. Most other people on here have already discussed it, and now take the info a little for granted. My poor, crappy opinion, would be to get a swiftech MCW-462-UH and a 1250 if you plan to get a graphics card cooler eventually like me, or a 1048 if not, because supposedly it performs good at low flow rates? I like the mounting system on it too. Installing the standoffs once, then not having to remove the mobo any more is nice. I chose it almost for that alone, since the innovatek is like 75 bucks. __________________ The name says it all.

10-09-2002, 09:24 AM	#4
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	Be interseting to know exactly what the actual flowrate through the system was with the 1048, then again with the 1250...

10-09-2002, 09:45 AM	#6
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	That's what I mean (I think!), be interesting to see if the 1250 gave much more than the 1048, to see how small or large the difference in flow was. on a less restrictive system it could of yeilded better temps yes?. even so, it's quite illusion shattering ...

10-09-2002, 04:35 PM	#9
garie Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: usa Posts: 17	thanks alot for ur input guys.....hmmm i just ordered my setup last nite....with the aluminum topped spiral, dtel radiator, and 1048. I was gonna get the tc-4 but its still outta stock and i dont want to wait anymore. I'll get pics up when its done. Thanks alot!

10-10-2002, 05:20 AM	#12
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	More of a flow increase than I thought there would be,(by going by the small change in temps). Yours is the concept block?, did yours have a bigger difference than the Maze3?(temp difference). but then again pressure would affect yours more than flow would'nt it?.does that 1.5foot extra head equate to much pressure?, or is it negligable?... Very interesting results, shattered one of my beliefs(the mighty 1250!). wonder what kind of differences would be seen with multi block systems?, GPU, NB,& HD maybe.

10-10-2002, 05:47 AM	#13
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	All block exhibited roughly the same temperature decrease going from the 1048 to the 1250, at least that is to say that the temperature decrease was so small that it didn't register for many instances given the 0.5C resolution of the CPU thermal diode. Pressure? Flow? They are linked. Each block provides a particular back-pressure against a pump, and the flow rate is proportional to that back-pressure. It may be interesting to note that the Concept (my micro-channel block) gives just 24mm^2 of orifice area for the water to squeeze through at its tightest point, and the Cyclone 4 gives 124mm^2 of channel area at its tightest point, yet both give the same flow rates (ie. have the same back-pressure). The Cyclone 4 causes the water to take 16 right angled turns while the concept has the water taking just 2. Meaning you can get away with outrageous restrictions to boost water velocity (ie. less than a 1/4" ID tube) so long as you don't make it take too many turns aferwards.

10-10-2002, 08:10 AM	#14
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	Is there a formula for working out the area of a circle?, can you let me know what it is?. it'd help me sort out some ideas in my mind.

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