My first waterblock idea, need help.

[t00lb0x]

Hey, I'm relativily new to making water blocks. I'm also not good with 3D programs so I had to try it in photoshop. What can I do to improve my block, if it is possible/works. If you have questions because my drawings don't illustrate my idea please ask. I don't know too much so I might not know the answers so please try your best to understand. Thanks for your help.

[bigben2k]

I like it. I'm surprised no one picked up on this variation.

You'll have to keep in mind how the water exits, because right now, if the jets are right on top of the fins, and the jet openings are part of the top, there's no way for the middle jet's water to exit, without affecting the performance of the other two jets.

Check out Cathar's "Cascade", and look at the tubes he implemented in the top.

[t00lb0x]

Originally posted by bigben2k
I like it. I'm surprised no one picked up on this variation.

You'll have to keep in mind how the water exits, because right now, if the jets are right on top of the fins, and the jet openings are part of the top, there's no way for the middle jet's water to exit, without affecting the performance of the other two jets.

Check out Cathar's "Cascade", and look at the tubes he implemented in the top.

I take that its good so far but needs improvement. I looked at his Cascade and I knowticed what I did wrong with mine. I need to create an empty layer so that water can be directed to splash against the fins (for maximum heat dissipation) and then so it seeps out and then goes up. I'm not clear of what I meant when I said jets, sorry, what do you think I meant LOL. What height should I use for the fins and for the area above to not ruin flow? Thanks for the help.

*EDIT*
So the only real issue is to make enough room for water to get out. What sizes should I make the fins, I was thinking 5MM and 10MM.

[t00lb0x]

Hmmm, I wish #Rotor or Cathar could give some advice. That would make my life complete LOL

[#Rotor]

please do not underestimate the knowledge lurking in the dark and shady corners of this place. I'm just a big mouth that so happens to have a digital camera, that's all

oh and I know how to take screenies of other peoples work too..... heheh here leme show ya....



fins are good, but the problem with them is to get to where it's hot, down to the base. That is why I think a row of thin slots, appropriately placed, so as to "squirt" the liquid straight down into the sink, might just rock the boat a little bit more....

[t00lb0x]

So make the slots so instead of going out 5-10MM go in 5-10MM to get closer to heat--Is that what your saying? Other than that its fine? Hmmm now I just need to get the stuff, oh would I use a mill for this or could I use a drill press? Could someone help me try to make a 3d model of this. That way maybe I can get some better diagrams. Please help, thanks for helping me so far.

[bigben2k]

The fins in WW are 1mm with a 1mm gap.

[utabintarbo]

Originally posted by t00lb0x
So make the slots so instead of going out 5-10MM go in 5-10MM to get closer to heat--Is that what your saying? Other than that its fine? Hmmm now I just need to get the stuff, oh would I use a mill for this or could I use a drill press? Could someone help me try to make a 3d model of this. That way maybe I can get some better diagrams. Please help, thanks for helping me so far.

If you can come up with a few more details, I can 3D model it for you. Either post or PM.

Bob

[t00lb0x]

Originally posted by bigben2k
The fins in WW are 1mm with a 1mm gap.

I think I should make it a bit deeper if I can but that seems good. Also instead of jets I think I found something that might be better. Cathar found inspiration from washing dishes. That has a power but my shower head can speed up velocity (if thats good) so I'm taking it apart to see if I can see how it works.

Originally posted by utabintarbo
If you can come up with a few more details, I can 3D model it for you. Either post or PM.

Bob

I'm working on about 3 diagrams to try to cover everything. Then I'll PM you them thanks for helping with the modeling. You guys are great :P

[bigben2k]

The fins in WW are about 4mm tall.

The shower head idea sounds interesting: I'd like to see/hear/read more.

[t00lb0x]

Yeah seems like a good idea. It turns a little stream of water and makes it really fast and spread. But when I put my hands under it air seemed to get into the water. Thats bad, I'll get examine more later when I shower :P. Ok quick question, I know there is a whole thread and everyone argued on this subject but I want a straight answer. Is faster flow rate good? If it is I will have to look at the show, but if it isn't jets will do.

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by t00lb0x
Yeah seems like a good idea. It turns a little stream of water and makes it really fast and spread. But when I put my hands under it air seemed to get into the water. Thats bad, I'll get examine more later when I shower :P. Ok quick question, I know there is a whole thread and everyone argued on this subject but I want a straight answer. Is faster flow rate good? If it is I will have to look at the show, but if it isn't jets will do.

There shouldn't be any air, if it's submerged, but you might not get the speed you're after.

Faster flow is good, but the performance benefit grows exponentially slower, so it's best to find another way to put the water in turbulence. So far, we have turbulators (in various forms) and jet inpingement, which throws water quickly against a flat surface.

The jet inpingement is what's behind WW, but it can be implemented better, like what you're proposing. There were a few of expensive improvements that were put aside, in making it.

[t00lb0x]

Originally posted by bigben2k
There shouldn't be any air, if it's submerged, but you might not get the speed you're after.

Faster flow is good, but the performance benefit grows exponentially slower, so it's best to find another way to put the water in turbulence. So far, we have turbulators (in various forms) and jet inpingement, which throws water quickly against a flat surface.

The jet inpingement is what's behind WW, but it can be implemented better, like what you're proposing. There were a few of expensive improvements that were put aside, in making it.

How is what I'm proposing better than the WW--mine is kind of like Cathar's Cascade. What do you mean when you say "Faster flow is good, but the performance benefit grows exponentially slower..." but is my original idea (we'll when #rotor fixed it) would that just do fine?

[bigben2k]

Maybe I lost track of a change here:shrug:

I thought you were going for the fins, sticking up from the base: that's WW, not Cascade.

If you're going for the Cascade design, a shower head won't allow the flow to clear: that's why there's tubes in the top plate. I suppose you could use it as a template though :shrug:

Faster flow can throw water into turbulence, the problem is that neither you or me (or together for that matter) could put together our pumps to do that: it just requires too much pressure.

So we "force" the water into turbulence

[t00lb0x]

Originally posted by bigben2k
Maybe I lost track of a change here:shrug:

I thought you were going for the fins, sticking up from the base: that's WW, not Cascade.

If you're going for the Cascade design, a shower head won't allow the flow to clear: that's why there's tubes in the top plate. I suppose you could use it as a template though :shrug:

Faster flow can throw water into turbulence, the problem is that neither you or me (or together for that matter) could put together our pumps to do that: it just requires too much pressure.

So we "force" the water into turbulence

Yeah according to #rotor he said I would get better temps if I were to make the fins into little dips (same idea but in instead of out.) Or maybe I'm lost :shrug: . The shower head idea would throw the water into turbulence (at least my shower head does.) But if you guys say jets would be better then I would make jets.

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by t00lb0x
Yeah according to #rotor he said I would get better temps if I were to make the fins into little dips (same idea but in instead of out.) Or maybe I'm lost :shrug: . The shower head idea would throw the water into turbulence (at least my shower head does.) But if you guys say jets would be better then I would make jets.

I see!

BTW, the shower head won't throw water into turbulence: you'd still need a huge amount of water flow.

But when the water hits the bottom of the cups, then yes, you'll have turbulence.

You ought to check out LeeJSmith's thread: he's also headed this way (but he's a little ahead of you ).

[t00lb0x]

Originally posted by bigben2k
I see!

BTW, the shower head won't throw water into turbulence: you'd still need a huge amount of water flow.

But when the water hits the bottom of the cups, then yes, you'll have turbulence.

You ought to check out LeeJSmith's thread: he's also headed this way (but he's a little ahead of you ).

Yeah I got the idea of fins from him . But now I was thinking of making it so the water goes into the copper. Yes I know he is ahead of me, I'm a no0blet. I'm suprised people actually thing this will work. Would I use jets to throw the water into turbulence of the shower head won't work? Hmm inspiration struck again, what about crevices and fins...so like 3 mm fin and 5 mm crevice for optimal performance. Also what the lengths are for socket 478 (p4) like the demensions of the holes? Lastly the heatspreader is 60X60mm on the P4 right?

[bigben2k]

All right, my last post in this thread, and I'll let someone take over ('cause you should get advice from more than one ).

The shower head doesn't create turbulence.

You ought to google for "Reynolds", which is what we use to measure turbulence, as opposed to laminar flow. There's also an OK article at overclockers.

You get some turbulence when the water shoots out of the shower head, at the exact point where the water hits something: that's your boundary region of turbulence.

If you want links, I'll post some.

[t00lb0x]

Originally posted by bigben2k
All right, my last post in this thread, and I'll let someone take over ('cause you should get advice from more than one ).

The shower head doesn't create turbulence.

You ought to google for "Reynolds", which is what we use to measure turbulence, as opposed to laminar flow. There's also an OK article at overclockers.

You get some turbulence when the water shoots out of the shower head, at the exact point where the water hits something: that's your boundary region of turbulence.

If you want links, I'll post some.

Links are helpful. I'll go to google for REynolds. As for last post that means trouble. If you've knowtice your only poster (besides one from #rotor and utabintarbo.) Anyways after I buy the equipment I need to make this I'll try hit or miss. I'll make 3 versions or more and see how they fair.

[bigben2k]

Ok. Here's the whole list of watercooling articles (and reviews) from OC:
http://www.overclockers.com/topiclis...ATER%20COOLING

Here's Mike Larsen's article, on turbulent vs laminar flow:
http://www.overclockers.com/articles511/

[t00lb0x]

Thanks, now to get someone else to post. I'm not worried, hmm...wonder what tools I'll need specifically for this. *sighs*

[JCYC5]

Only two Reynolds I know of

[bigben2k]

Burt and Sally aside...

Here's a bunch of links I posted in my "Radius" thread:
(Hopefully, most still work)

http://www.mas.ncl.ac.uk/~sbrooks/bo...p07/node9.html
("Turbulent Reynolds stress")

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_number
(basic definition)

http://www.ichmt.org/abstracts/MECT-...tracts/2-2.pdf

http://www.nag.co.uk/simulation/Fast...html/node8.htm
("Theory of laminar and turbulent flow")

http://psdam.mit.edu/2.000/Administr...ulent-Flow.pdf
(simplistic, but there)

http://www.efm.leeds.ac.uk/CIVE/CIVE..._turbulent.htm
(dye experiment)

http://www.sigmaxi.org/amsci/article...demenos-5.html
(a medical perspective!)

http://wuche.wustl.edu/~sato/flowtrans/flowtrans2a.html
(Reynold's experiment)

http://www.icase.edu/Dienst/Reposito...e/TR-99-33/pdf
("Streamwise Vorticity Generation in laminar and turbulent jets")

http://home.olemiss.edu/~cmprice/lectures/turb.html
(some basics about turbulent flow)

http://www.uts.com/products/tkintro.html
(A software)

http://www.me.mtu.edu/courses/me328/...328formula.pdf
(A formulae roundup)

[t00lb0x]

Originally posted by JCYC5
Only two Reynolds I know of

Rodney and Sherry? Hehe Bigben thanks for the links. I wish I could get someone else to comment tho.

[JCYC5]

Yup!

Rod and Sherry